Over-intelligent = Aspergers?

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I think a lot of your social abilities as an individual of sufficiently higher intelligence can depend on what fate throws in your path.

If you have one of those "normal" lives growing up where no huge tragedies or set-backs occur to you, chances are you will be able to continue to focus on the competition of academics and do really well for yourself. A lot of the people I knew who did the best in the school systems were just normal gifted kids (like 120...it doesn't make that huge of a difference, really) and had decent lives and were able to gain a sense of purpose and discipline within the system.

I think if you have a very high intelligence that lends itself to some eccentricities, or asperger's, you might find it harder to cope socially and in society if something goes wrong and throws you out of your place in the system.

For example, I was a reasonably popular kid growing up and won pretty much every competition I felt like doing. Then some messed up stuff happened, I lost my place, and realized I didn't have the ability to function without the assurance that I was exactly where I should be in the system. I was too obsessive, I over thought it, and struggled more and more over the next ten years.

I did well academically, particularly in English, Spanish, and subjects involving a lot of reading. Socially, I was below average. I do well at my job, but in other things I am remarkably dumb. I often wonder how smart I can really be when I make clumsy, stupid mistakes.

In a sense yes and that's why I'm here. Part of my situation can be explained by Asperger's while, at the same time, some Asperger's traits I do not seem to have. In another, more specific sense, I've kept feeling disappointed by how off most of the mainstream environment is from what I'd like it to be in terms of the thoughts, meanings and symbols that go around - a feeling that there's always a handful of assumptions (usually on their part) that would need to be addressed before any earnest communication could begin.
For example, when there was a stock market simulation at uni, I would arrive to class and see people frantically speculating about individual price movements - maybe on the basis of something they thought the president would do. - I was myself doing better for having applied general principles rather than speculating on anything too specific. - Not only that, but the intensity of that communication kinda hinted that all that frantic talk was really about proving who was the biggest "Business Alpha Male". I didn't feel I could relate to that at all so I kept to myself.
As a kid I had issues with TV ads and shows that were supposedly aimed at my age group and as an adult I keep getting that qualitative difference feel in grad school or at work when people don't get things, are prejudiced and/or miss the big picture.
. . .but then, they say everyone has a qualitative feeling of being smarter so a large part of my problem could still be Asperger's.



I actually I did notice you being frighteningly smarter before any claims on your part. When people in forums - not this one - claim that someone "is smart" they do so on the basis of specific knowledge or sheer verbosity and I never agreed with that. Traits-wise, your case is more what I'd expected it to be. There's something flawless and crystalline (can't find a better word) about the way you go about constructing your posts I couldn't help noticing. Strong emotions and/or emotionally loaded personal biases don't seem to soil the posts either. . . There's a few users like that in this forum (almost none elsewhere); there's also a 16 year old girl (forgot her exact nickname) supposedly with a very high IQ that similarly scares the hell out of me. . .



I suspect so too. I don't think not having any friends and being harassed in some form or another almost every single day of my life did any good to me. Especially during the earlier years and teens when I wasn't as prepared as I am now; in fact, the worst things happened back then - things most sane people wouldn't even consider doing to me right now.
My tendency was never to isolate myself but have been isolated and a scapegoat since kindergarten. . . .and the worst part was getting home and being harassed and being a scapegoat and being scared there too.

Anyway. . . I guess a person with a more normal IQ would not have experienced all this so poignantly. For example, if something unfair and painful was done to me (a common occurrence), I'd ponder deeply on the unfairness of it all for long and that would consume me from inside - or I'd quickly notice all the aspects of an humilliating situation and compare it to my own ideals, making it worse.
A higher IQ allowed me to suffer more and become even more emotionally twisted over time.

Last edited by Whisperer on 02 Apr 2008, 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If anyone is confused about this issue, a good book to read is Misdiagnoses' and Dual Diagnoses' of Gifted Children and Adults. There are also documents all over the internet that summarize this concept if you type misdiagnoses and gifted into a search engine. It goes into detail about AS, but quite a few other things as well.

I really would have liked to believe that this applied to me. I even tried to believe it for a time, while willfully ignoring all my other obvious AS traits that couldn't possibly be explained away by giftedness. I may have some intelligence, but I know people that are far more gifted than I that aren't nearly the social pariah that I am. That's just one example, there are many other reasons for me to be more sure that I have AS than anything else.

Care to explain where it said that?

I think what he means by over intelligent is above average IQ.


I heard if you're too smart, you can't do simple things like tie your shoes. Something I could never understand so I keep asking why is it that way.

I was doing algebra by the second grade.

After years of teasing for having Velcro, I finally learned to tie my shoes at the end of the fifth grade.

I was also way behind in other kid things like learning to swing on my own, snap my fingers, whistle, etc. I don't know if it's due to motor issues from the AS or something else.

Jeyradan,

Your profile of strengths and weaknesses sounds a lot like mine. I was reading at fifth grade level in first grade and was reading Steinbeck and Hemingway by fifth grade, but didn't learn to tie my shoes until I was in fourth grade. In second grade, I was doing the "new math," which used algebraic concepts, but got only a C in algebra in high school.

In some areas of my life, I am more intelligent than most people I meet. I know that I am very, very stupid in other areas of my life. I guess it is one of the trade offs that keep us from becoming megalomaniacs.

Intelligence is an interesting topic. An IQ measure really just says how well people can solve problems - specific types of problems at that. My IQ as measured in a Mensa test many years ago is very high (not telling). On the downside my intelligence in solving social interaction problems is very poor - I tend to walk away from such problems clueless how to deal with them. If someone insults me nowadays I'm confused and walk away. As a child I used to hit them!

However, on the plus side I think we Aspies have an extra dimension to problem solving that "normal" people lack. Generalising - but I think we tend to see more patterns in things around us that others are oblivious to. We strive to make more sense of the world and things around us where normal people take these things for granted. I've been trying to solve the nature of life the universe and existence since age 11! I "see" and understand things that are impossible to put into words or explain - "normal" people just look at me sideways if I try to wrap words around this.

So just what is "intelligence"?

Tallyman, said

This is a perfect description of my experience. I used to think it had to do with my relatively high intelligence (Forget the IQ tests - I have a doctorate in a mathematical field). However, I now feel that my autism may have a lot to do with it. Tallyman expresses this very well.

I want to add another comment to the effect that I have wondered often what things would have been like for me if I were less intelligent but had the same intensity of autistic traits. It would have been close to impossible to overcome the communication problems that I have faced for my entire life. Would I have been institutionalized? It seems entirely possible considering that my aphasic snits would have taken up most of my daylight hours (due to frustration) rather than just occurring every month or so.

So I tend to agree with the coarse generalization (Tony Atwood and Simon Baron-Cohen sometimes seem to support this generalization) that Asperger's and HFA are just the portion of the autistic population who have enough cognitive ability to compensate for autism.

So Asperger's doesn't cause high intelligence per se but may have a high correlation with it by default.

I thought you were talking about the AS criteria
I don't see that in there. I didn't see it an any other autistic criteria.
Perhaps you were talking about something else?

No, that's in the expanded information for Asperger's disorder from the DSM-IV-TR; the area where it actually explains its clinical manifestation.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/overvi ... iteria.htm

There's much more to the DSM-IV-TR in relation to ASDs than just the criteria (the criteria are usless by themselves as they don't explain anything); the criteria are explained in-depth within the book. It gives examples to each point and how they manifest (diagnostic features), as well as other pertinent information (specific age related features for example).

DSM-IV-TR