It's almost official: I don't have Asperger's Syndrome

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ive seen alex interact socially... ?

I think an aspie can interact socially in a two-wayed manner to varying degrees, depending on the aspie.

I find I can interact socially two-wayed, but I respond differently to an NT, and sometimes they dont like it.

i do too... although i acknowledge a sort of need to "hold the reigns" while doing so.

i must say, after meeting alex, his gf and jerryh here...... it's kinda nice to sit and chat with people who have similar conversational flows.

ive definitely noticed (sometimes) when i've forgotten to do something and people kinda look at me, but i've definitely learned to either A) just shut up and listen to people or B) try really hard not to interrupt and watch for when people want to say something. i also try to put a filter on my irrelevance meter.

Yes. I think that aspies can do some different types of communication, but much of it tends to be mentioning things from their own mind/memory, or responding in a unique, independent way.

And for the OP, it sounds like you have a PDD-NOS diagnosis from what you have said? Basically that means you have a watered-down version of AS, or another Pervasive Development Disorder such as Atypical Autism, Atypical Aspergers, or sometimes ADHD.

If you are not happy with the diagnosis you can perhaps go seek a second opinion from an ASD specialist?

I think it be a (simplified) two way exchange, that is however always impaired.

This may be true for an individual that has the capability and is in the correct circumstances to understand and manipulate their way of communication. Means, a child with diagnosable does not understand the implications of a two sided interaction. It most likely will understand at an older age that communication is not script or a routine, but is orientated at the intentions of the persons involved. That there is a constant flow, that social 'rules' are ever changing, that there must be a common basis, a want and need and receiving...

Which means that... if you say hi every time someone comes: That can be understood like a routine, a systematic use of language without meaning. HI is given a meaning on its own. (So maybe an autistic child will say hi... when nobody comes or to inanimate objects and places etc.) Although there seems to be interpersonal interaction - there is none.

But when you understand the purpose of hi and that this 'hi' is connected to an inclusively personal and communicative relationship. That the other wants you to say, that he feels about it, that he expects it - when you understand this connection and use the 'hi' appropriately, then it's two sided.

I think.

Being AS, this impairment will never go away though. Standard will be one sided interaction. Script. Routine. That kind of thing. Researching models and theories of interaction and communication can help, but it's all intellectual. And not everything social can be done with intellectually. (That's mean.)

That's the difference between talking AT people and talking with/to people I think.

Oh well.

Just my two cents.


Edit: edited for spelling.

I'm just going by what I've read (Wing, Asperger, etcetera), and what I've been told. One-sided conversations are all that's listed in the DSM-IV-TR for those with AS compared to the social aloofness of AD. I cannot socialize at all, and I'm your typical "aspie" if I'm to believe my psycho. Of note, socialization needs to be seen in its context; there's a difference between answering questions that people pose, mechanically, and the spontaneity of social reciprocity.

I'm sure someone with AS could look like they're socializing, but I'm also sure that they're answering in a mechanical way (and they'll always answer like this).





Sora, yes, that can be learned, but throw in the fluid dynamics of socialization and the person with AS will falter soon enough the longer it drags on. It'll always be mechanical rather than natural.

Last edited by Danielismyname on 04 Apr 2008, 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

And about the diagnosis...

Are you suspected to have a personality disorder based on a questionary? If so, that's not right.

In an amnesic conversation, were you checked for each of the symptoms of Asperger's? That is necessary too, the simple 'I don't think so' of a professional doesn't do.

Regardless of whether you have AS or a another disorder, if the current is based on only the two above this suspected diagnosis is dodgy.

However. If the diagnosis is based upon further questioning too, it very likely holds some truth.

because of this post by the OP I suspect that he has received a PDD-NOS diagnosis. PDD-NOS is not a personality disorder though. It is a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

i understand what you're saying... but i do think that aspies can have the potential to understand that something is expected from you in social interactions and to be able to try at least.

i have always almost resented the fact that i have to try so hard to find something, anything to say to people and that i always felt disheartened cause no one ever seemed to try so hard to socialize with me. i don't always know what to say or when to say it... but after years of people telling me to quiet down or quit interrupting or just flat out asking me where the heck i'm coming from... i conclude that i have to do something else at least.

and it was always hard cause i never knew what i was doing wrong.. i think teaching people taught me how to better elicit answers from people, so that helped somewhat in figuring out where people are coming from... and now i know about AS, i finally have a basis to apply context to things and at least attempt to direct things .

all this doesnt mean i dont find it easy to interact... i still have many uncomfortable silences when i (think) i know people expect me to say something but i either dont care or just dont know... or maybe im biting my tongue not to say all the random things brimming under the surface. there are only a few people i feel comfortable enough to just say things around

and even if i find it tedious... i know i can sit there and listen to people... i've found that goes a long way. i chalk that up to teaching as well.

I was about to reply that aspies can interact socially and all, as I do for years, but when I read what Daniel wrote, I must say that he (Daniel) is right.

Daniel, you may have AS but I saw a lot of your replies in various thread and you really seems a good guy and a bright one. Your answers are always interesting.

When I was in my good [adult] years I could sit down next to people (teenager), and listen to them talk, I could also answer questions if I knew the answer. The conversation would end after I gave my answer as I never had anything to say for I don't speak of my interests, until someone asked me another question that is. If I didn't know the person who asked a question of me, I'd just ignore them (in retrospect, I knew I was ignoring them, but I just couldn't answer; there was a wall).

Now, I'm totally hopeless, and I don't know when I'll be able to go back to my "one-sided" ways.

"One-sided" is the norm for Asperger's; whether you only answer questions, or you talk someone's ears off.

The social deficits are the most pronounced in Asperger's as it's lacking in the verbal and cognitive difficulties of autism.

and i agree... but you don't have to like your vegetables to eat them and be healthy. just like you can interact with people, even if it takes a little work.

i think what has helped me interact is not to give a flying flip about what people think about me. doesn't help in professional situations necessarily... but even when i'm not around people i feel comfortable with... i still am better than i used to be about rolling with whatever faux pas i do/ say....... yet another thing teaching has taught me... being put on the spot when you do something wrong lol.

Lorna Wing has also described the "passive" autistic who may engage (in a passive manner) with others who initiate contact. I've found that to be true of myself. I have also found that socialization structured around a defined activity can work for me, especially if they're people I've known for a long time. Unstructured socialization is much harder. I was once fortunate enough to meet someone on my first day of college who was interested in getting to know me. Best yet, she talks a mile a minute so I didn't have to say much when I was with her. (She's a very socially competent NT who nevertheless likes monologues.) I sometimes went to meals and other things with her and a few other people. At first I hardly said anything at all during that time, but I was eventually able to participate, albeit in a different and less natural manner than my peers.

I did not

Last edited by Mw99 on 07 Apr 2008, 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There are a lot of problems with figuring out what you were like when you were a kid, too, or how you appear to others.

There was, for instance, a mannerism that I only became aware of in myself after looking into autism, so I thought I only developed it after looking into autism. I saw a video that had me in it as a kid, and I was doing the same mannerism.

Additionally, parents often can't call up memories about their kids' childhood on demand when looking for specific traits.

I found that with my own mother, I learned more about myself in random conversations with her than by asking directly. Asking directly provokes mental filters. Hearing stories triggered by ordinary conversation, doesn't. This led to my eventually learning things about my early speech development, as well as early social development, that I was not aware of (or not trusting my own memories on, since I had no other evidence of it) until she mentioned them in conversation.

So for instance, asking "Did I have social problems" would lead nowhere.

However, talking to her in general about my childhood in terms of stories, I'd learn things like, "The preschool called me up because they said you played just fine on your own but emitted this high-pitched shriek when any of the other kids got near you."

Asking about language problems also led nowhere.

Doing something that reminded her of "the way you acted when you stopped talking". "When I what?!" "Oh yeah, you had a few words and then you stopped talking, and you'd do these things (she grunts in imitation), and then we asked these people, and..." etc.

Also, parents who have autistic traits themselves can have trouble seeing anything as "wrong with" children who are much like them. I was a lot like my father, who was born in 1941 before just about anyone knew about autism, but who'd today have been diagnosed easily in early childhood just as I'd have been.

In addition, in my family at least, we had the additional problem of my being the polar opposite of my autistic brother (undiagnosed when I was growing up -- he had diagnoses, but autism wasn't among them) in most ways. He'd been seen as the more "problematic" one (because of the constant screaming and such) so in comparison to him I was easy, despite him actually having an easier time in many areas than I did.

I once found a picture of my mother interacting with me in a way that was very typical of mothers interacting with autistic children in many ways (after adapting to us). I showed her the picture. She and I were sitting on the floor. She was holding out a crayon to me by putting her arms as far away from her as possible, and instead of looking at me, she was looking intently at the crayon. I was looking intently at the crayon as well, rather than at her eyes, and I was smiling at the crayon while grabbing it.

After I showed it to her, she described to me how she'd actually started getting problems in her job evaluations at work because of her lack of eye contact, which she'd learned on me, spilling over into her talking to patients.

So in many respects you can learn more by listening to stories of you that people tell when they aren't thinking about autism, or that are triggered by talking about events rather than using general terms. This also gets around denial which is a problem many parents can have -- if they're not thinking about autism, they'll have no reason to deny it.

What I've had to do, as far as learning how others have perceived me, is think intently over people's reactions to me over time and deduce things from that, rather than relying on my self-image as, of course, totally normal, for me. (In addition to being unaware of myself being weird in various ways, I was also unaware of myself being ahead of other kids academically in some areas, and this unawareness was even noted in my records, saying I was unusually non-boastful and didn't flaunt my exceptional abilities.)

Also, at what point do you remember yourself as seeming autistic beyond? I've heard of people being diagnosed with AS after not seeming to have a lot of traits as late as 7 or even 13 at times. It doesn't have the age cutoff of prior-to-3 that autism does, and the very definition of PDD-NOS can include autistic traits showing up later than usual.

I don't know what personality disorder diagnosis you got, but schizoid, schizotypal, and avoidant are common ones for autistic people to get (not the only ones, but common ones).

Also... personally, I see the use of autism-related labels in adults, when not applying for services or something, to be primarily useful inasfar as it can bring people to other people and information that is relevant and useful to their lives. If it does that for you, it doesn't matter if you're technically autistic or not, or even what some in the autistic community call a "cousin" (someone with a condition that has significant traits in common with autistic people, coined by an autistic woman upon meeting a man with hydrocephalus and autistic traits).

Go get a second opinopn, or even a third. But don't keep riding the diagnosis merry-go-round until you get what you want. If you have a personality disorder, don't worry, you're not alone and there may be real help out there for it. I wish I could change the way I think and view the world - and how others view me. I'd trade diagnoses with you in a heartbeat.