Gifted vs Aspergers

Post Reply New Topic

The problem with the "Misdiagnosis" book and article is that it perpetuates the idea that people with AS don't care about other people. That's not correct.

What if gifted equated to Aspergers? I think it is one in the same, and we're all just barking up the wrong tree.

Gifted is quirky, fixated, odd--all these things. The flapping overexcitablity--all that is caused by intense reactions to stimuli.

Hyperfocused attention causes an individual to talk only about his/her interest. Gifted individuals see an injustice, patterns and can't see beyond what should be and what is.

Gifted people have their heads in the clouds and are out of touch with reality at times.

Also, I don't believe children are diagnosed with AS unless they have an above average IQ or higher or a significant discrepancy between performance and verbal (30 pts or more).

Most gifted, quirky kids could be diagnosed, easily, with Aspergers (imo).

equinn

(and--I don't think AS kids should be classified as autistic--there is too much of a difference between the two)

hehe. Well phrase it better: "How much was the losses"

This is a really interesting discussion. I don't think I have much to add to it beyond commenting that I find it amazing.

It seems like the two conditions coexist in me, but of course, I am just one individual. Maybe the conditions can, but do not necessarily, manifest in the same individual.

Well they might be. But I see a lot of people jumping to conclusions and it makes me want to tear my hair out because of all the wonderful batty gifted people I've known over the years who are nowhere near the autistic spectrum who would get labelled when they neither need nor want a label. So I urge caution - don't assume a connection without good evidence. It's not going to help anyone. I mean, we don't even really know what autism is yet.

Hans Eysenck wrote about how people high in psychopathy (a personality trait?), but who are not psychotic, tend to be highly creative, while people low in psychopathy and people who have actual psychoses tend to be low in creativity. Creativity (genius?) tends to show up in the relatives of people with psychoses. Asperger noticed a similar trend with the relatives of autistic people. So if there is a genetic link between giftedness and autism (or at least some autism, if autism is a bunch of different things that look alike), it's not likely to be a simple autism=genius thing, but something a little more complex. I can see how there might be a relationship. But I see so many researchers jumping to conclusions that it's got me putting the brakes on.

Last edited by Anemone on 04 May 2008, 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, that bugged me a lot, too. They need to work on the differences between gifted and Aspergers some more. But at least there was a good description of gifted people. A lot of people still think gifted people never have any problems at all.

I've known a number of extremely gifted people in my life, a few of whom I would unequivocally consider to be geniuses, who do not in any way appear to have an ASD. I have also known some very smart people with AS. I think there is definitely a distinction between giftedness with AS, and giftedness without AS, although I agree the line can be blurred for some people (as it also is for those without giftedness).

Hey Steve!

I think you've added something worthwhile . . .

Z

I agree with you - I've been reading and reading on the subject for three full years, and at first I tried to understand all the categories and labels. But then I noticed how many traits were similar between all of the labels, AND that many of the same traits (with labels) appear in my family. I've come up with quite a list of characteristics and disorders that possibly have connections on some level. For example, I had a cousin who had epilepsy and I have had seizures too - epilepsy and autism are considered to be co-morbid conditions because they so frequently occur together. My cousin also had, and I have, high levels of social anxiety. He committed suicide when I was in high school. I was shocked to discover that Autism Spectrum Disorders / the Autism Continuum seemed to explain so many of the difficulties members of my family experience as well as some of the abilities. And because I am a trained historian, I have been able to document some of the traits in my family going back three and four generations.

I'm not trying to jump to conclusions, but I am interested in connectivity. I think, when it comes to developmental differences/disorders, that there has often been a failure to see how things interrelate in the push to put separate labels on syndromes such as Aspergers or abilities such as Giftedness.

Z

Please be judicious in assigning diagnositic labels to ANYONE - EVER. (That is, unless you're actually a diagnotician who is assigned the job of diagnosing an individual, which is an intensive process, not just based upon casual observation of a few traits).

Also- be aware that there are certainly those with extraordinarily high IQs that in every way neurotypical (that is, NOT autistic)! Please do not equate 'high IQ' with Aspergers Syndrome. Yes, many with AS or HFA have very high IQs, but this is NOT 1:1! Watch that assumption, it's erroneous.

And, just because one has a some 'Aspie-ish' traits (many 'normal,' or NT people do!) does NOT make them a diagnosed Aspie/Autie! This leap of illogic makes me nuts! Proceed with caution here. Diagnostics are not to be taken lightly and labels just slung around on a hunch. Refrain.

Hunches are good. Some of the greatest thinkers of our time had hunches.

I'm tired--let's just call it a day. You've got me beat, I'm sure, by at least 40 or more IQ points. I've always relied on my intution and ability to gather enough information to form a conclusion. It's really quite primitive. I agree, it's mostly illogical and dangerous. But, I don't do anything worse than a so called professional who observes my child for a couple hours and assigns a few labels while the team hangs on his every word and forms a new impression despite their prior experiences, as if they are blank slates waiting to be filled.

I'm sure most who listen to me are not exactly taking me too seriously because, after all, I'm not one of those professionals.

equinn

IMO children need the Aspie brain wiring to become gifted. Massive memory capacity, matching patterns and facts in their heads, intrigued by acquiring more knowledge. I don't know if there is another way to become gifted. My childhood IQ was 170 and was considered "gifted" because I used adult language and wit, learned fast and was exceptional in problem solving and art. I got along with other similar kids best ; solitary or off at a social tangent (those batty gifted adults), but all versions of Aspie personalities.

I'm not really sure what you are referring to here: that I know gifted people with AS? I'm talking about people who have been diagnosed- not just people I think have AS. People I knew in college who had been diagnosed with AS as children.



Hence my statement that there is a difference between gifted people with AS, and gifted people without AS. I was countering some posters on here who stated they thought that giftedness and AS were the same thing. I was not saying that all people with AS are gifted. Again, I'm not really sure what you are referring to. Please clarify.



Again, I was talking about people who had been formally diagnosed as children who I knew when I was in college. I was not just guessing. I went to a geeky college, and was part of a role-playing group with a high percentage of formally diagnosed Aspies (I know because they told me). I am actually slightly offended (though I know no offense was intended) that you think I would refer to someone as an Aspie just because they have a few traits. Both my parents are psychologists, and I know not to fling around labels. I have a friend who I *suspect* might be on the spectrum, but I wouldn't call her an "Aspie."

Last edited by LostInSpace on 04 May 2008, 5:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

equinn

The things you mentioned (similarities between AS and Gifted) are precisely the things that have led me to wonder if there is a connection that is being overlooked so as not to put a "negative" label on the gifted.

Z

Both involve atypical wiring of the brain. Above a certain level of giftedness, experts say that gifted kids don't just learn quickly, they actually think differently. There is a real qualitative difference in the way they process information. Other conditions, such as OCD, Tourette's, and ADHD which also involve neurological differences, usually share some characteristics with AS and giftedness, such as sensory sensitivity and problems with social interaction.

Perhaps neurological differences such as those which allow a child to make far-reaching connections and memorize large amounts of information easily, also predispose them to being overwhelmed by the information carried in by their senses. After all, sensitivity to overall patterns and attention to detail might be enhanced by sensitivity to the environment, even if this sensitivity also carries with it some disadvantages.

Thanks for that, LostInSpace. Do you know if there have been studies of brain scans comparing Gifted AS to non-AS Gifted? It would be interesting to see how they function and how similar or dis-similar they are.

Z