Article about AS Aggression towards others by Digby Tantam

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He says so himself in his reply to (and posted by) aylissa. Selection bias happens in many attempts to measure prevalence & severity of all manner of occurrances. One only sees/hears about instances of problems that can't be ignored-if Z is not obvious, Z's less likely to be found. Sensational, extreme, "headline grabbing" cases skew people's notions as to distribution of traits (and actions) within & amongst various populations.

In thread (Adult Issues: "Are Aspies More Likely to be Rapists, Stalkers, and Perverts ?")
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt63254.html
I wrote:
If one believes that those with ASD dx are more honest (less deceptive)-and I'm not saying this is so, but if one goes on that assumption-then the things that an "NT" (which could include all manner of psychopathology, just not those with ASD as primary dx) would/could normally hide would be seen in those with ASD.

How to put this simply ? I have many feelings & thoughts that I've learned are considered bad-I don't do bad things to people or things-but I have many intense reactions that "normal" people know to hide (and are better at concealing these unflattering aspects of themselves) than I. So, if those of us with this dx are more likely to express things that are considered "taboo" or inappropriate (yet most people have these inner ideas, along with the "common sense" or "hypocrisy" to pretend/deny having this mental content)-then it'll seem as if we're the ones to watch out for.

Not sure if my point is coming across. If a type of behavior or communication is more visible, noticeable, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's predominantly this or that group (type of person, whether categorized by broad label or actual presenting traits/features) that accounts for majority of trespasses/wrongs committed.

I'm very rigorous in recounting my imperfections, flaws, inconsistencies-I wasn't always this way, and don't know how similar others with my dx are to how I am. I'll tell my counselor all sorts of awful (in my opinion) things about me, and she says they are similar to what any person thinks & feels, it's just that most humans don't share that info. (so no one knows the secret things going on the minds of "NT" people).

Hard to explain something in moderate rather than absolute terms, but I'm not taking a side-am saying it's complicated (what isn't ?). My opinion is that those with strict moral codes (rigid outlooks-which can present in many sorts of people, including but not limited to ASD) could be either more or less likely to harm or infringe on others. Answer is both yes & no, instead of one way or the other definitively.

A page later (in thread) I also wrote:
My belief is that the greater danger lies within those who appear "perfectly normal & fine" on the outside-because you can't see/hear (sense in whichever way) that the person is secretly a cruel callous & violent person inside. That's how such folks can get close to potential victims, by coming across as "safe, nice, friendly" sorts of people.

An "aspie" may not (am not saying "can't"-just "might not") be as able (or willing) to give off those "non-threatening" vibes/messages, but that doesn't equate to actually being harmful person meriting suspicion. A predator with great social skills can cause all sorts of horrible things to be visited upon prey, and people may not even believe it, because "he/she is such a nice person-how could you say that about him/her ?". Politicians & bureaucracies often say "I'm not doing this, I'm doing that": outright lying, while screwing over citizen(s)-or portion of the populace-and people often have no defense against this sort of "gaslighting" from above.

Meanwhile, same folks are pointing out the "aspie" as being someone to suspect of bad intent, because the aspie seems more of an "open book"-lacking filters for expression-rather than hiding his/her unsettling or "inappropriate" thoughts/feelings. Yet the kind of person that I fear is one lacking filters for behavior, and I'm not talking about behaving oddly (nose-picking, staring, or rambling about one's special interest)-I'm talking about those who enjoy causing pain to living creatures-one can't always pick them out of a crowd.

Appearances, first impressions, and surfaces can be quite deceptive. Am not claiming to be immune from these ways of perceiving/interpreting, only saying that I'm aware of fallacious thinking & try to "check myself", since my assumptions/intuition are not always in accord with how things really are.

I see it as meltdown reaction, like a volcano erupting. And as meltdowns are a particularly AS thing I don't think that it is at all displaced/exaggerated or irresponsible of Tantam to refer at length to the phenomenon, especially as the eruption can be so dreadfully destructive.

I am not proud of my own history of violence since becoming mother ( it is something I rarely experienced before; could count on fingers of one hand the times I exploded violently/aggressively in the 35 years before that), but I wanted to post about it explicitly ( page 1 of thread) because so many seem to believe that it doesn't exist, or that it doesn't correlate/associate at all.

This despite the number of parents who have referred to violent behaviour by their children, despite the accounts here and there on wp of fairly dramatic aggression against others.

And also because I think the average age of the contributing members on here means that the kind of people it mostly happens to are not present, most of the people here seem to have few responsibilities, are still at home, or living alone, and I know I had no such explosions at all when living alone. I was safe when single/solitary, but give me responsibilities and almost unavoidable company ( which motherhood involves unless got career nd money for sitters ), and I begin to steam.

No offense-am not blaming you for how things went for you (in saying how things went for me)-and I agree with the point you bring up. Were I faced with having a child, my level of functioning would decrease dramatically & my propensity for violence would skyrocket.

I've a million reasons not to have offspring-one of them is that I'd end up in jail for abuse or murder, undoubtedly. Am absolutely intolerant of the experiences that unavoidably accompany childrearing: the smells, sights, sounds, not to mention the selfLESSness required. Have no interest in parenting a young human nor desire to create/gestate/extrude spawn-despite my age & gender. At least I'm aware of & admit this, have made decisions (without being coerced, cajoled, or convinced into thinking otherwise) accordingly-and have had enough control over my circumstances (luck/chance) to follow through on keeping myself childfree.

I'm way too selfISH & my reaction to sensory offenses is escape or if that's not available, rage. Have gradually learned not to take those responses out physically, but emotionally instead. Can't take credit for what "positive" coping mechanisms I've acquired, such as being able to put distress into words rather than only having violence/aggression as sole expressive outlet.

I have AS but am diagnosed with different mental health issues that overlap with AS and I can be aggressive at times.

for anyone who doesn't believe there are not a large number of aspies who are agressive,live in residential homes with them and see what its like,there is one aspie lady [not the one am have often spoke about on here before] who staff say is the most severely challenging out of all service users in the learning disability service-they rate her more difficult than the most profoundly multiply disabled service users.
am do not understand why when there is the slightest chance a good trait might be linked to an asd,people will preach it,but when a bad sounding problem is associated with autism or as,people try to disconnect the problem from it,cant accept one and not another,it is a spectrum afterall,whilst it might not be a common problem for aspies on here or that self knows,it is comon in residential and supported housing,and those in day centres.

there is even a term called 'explosive aspergers' ,am have a friend on another asd forum whos son was originally classed as it as a young child,then had it changed to regular aspergers,and am have 'explosive autism',they're both about the severity of meltdowns,rage etc.

I am female & would recognise myself in the description under the first heading, i.e. retaliation (for something/someone that is treating me - or someone else - unfairly).

The "sudden onset" is true, and also the equally sudden return to normal without understanding why the other person can't do the same.

I'm not physically violent towards other people though (unless they started it of course!) - I just shout, scream, stamp & throw things.

Of course, I'm not like this all the time - I probably only have about 6-10 "episodes" in a year.

The rest of the time you just wouldn't see it coming!

Yep. "Severe" AS usually manifests as extremely challenging behaviour, which entails socially inappropriate behaviour in the form of aggression to others and/or self, as well as inappropriate behaviour in the form of attention seeking.

Self-harm can be seen as aggression too (it actually is in psychiatry), and many people around here partake in such; it's just violence against self instead of directed at others.

There are no people, aspies or not, that are aggressive, people can react aggressive in certain situations. There are large numbers of non-aspies that react aggressively in situations where others where not.



You can find examples of anything in any subgroup of any population, it just a single person and this has no bearing on that subgroup, it says nothing about you or me if one aspie has a short fuse or another is a math-genius, neither case will change how aggressive we respond or how well we can solve math problems. That is the central problem with generalizations and as long as you don't understand that, you'll be stuck trying to fit square pegs through round holes.

Attempting to validate claims for the entire group based on a single observation of an individual is exactly what is wrong, and sometimes dangerous, about generalizations.



Who is am, does it stand for 'I'?



Anyone can make up any term.

Yeah.

Also, I have a history of walking into public places and then getting overloaded, sometimes noisily. He described a "case" of a girl who did that and claimed it was aggression on her part towards society in general. It sure wasn't for me, and it seemed like he was going to great lengths to prove that things were aggressive when they weren't -- to put a slant on it basically, like spin-doctoring.

People who are put in residential homes are not a representative sample of any population. Levels of violence in such places are also more common for anyone living there. You can even take the average person off the street, put them in a place like that, and they will be more likely to be violent than they would otherwise be. This has been studied at length: Residential facilities cause a fair bit of violence overall due to the power structures, and they also cause a lot of emotional problems in general for people living there. (Not all people living there, but more than there would be if they didn't live there.)

So first off, people who are more violent are more likely to be put in such places, and second off, people who are put in such places are more likely to be violent. That overall adds up to it not being representative at all of any group who ends up there, when it comes to violence.

Yes. She has problems with pronouns.

I'd prefer to say, "me" instead of "I'm", and I'd prefer to use "Daniel" instead of "I". Speech therapy seemed to fix such when I'm speaking in the presence of people in a forum type environment, or to a professional.

Zwerfbeertje,kingdom of rats,anbuend..u all make good points my opinion is that every case is on its own that is what makes these things so hard to know

I'm the opposite to aggressive. I rarely lose my temper. I often cause others to lose their temper, unintentionally of course. But even if I get angry don’t lose my temper. I still try to solve the problem and use reason.

As a child my meltdowns may have made me appear aggressive to others, but I was not. It was not anger but fear and panic.

And currently, I have nothing that can even be mistaken for aggression. Is my case really that unusual?

Ah, well, it's intriguing, there's a Belgian autism expert (?) who hypothesized that the core cause of autism lies in a delayed or incomplete development of differentiation and concept of 'I' and 'other'.



This is also something to keep in mind, it is also in the eye of the beholder to (frequently incorrectly) infer a mental state from an outward appearance.

Well I can be, because I'm an extremely emotionally charged aspie. But it's not as though I hit people or anything... I know some may, which is probably more aspie child related... correct me if I'm wrong, but I know it's not with cruel intent.

Anyhow, yes, I can be very aggressive verbally... but it's when I feel unjustly treated - usually work related, and I take much of my anger out on my family.

It's really f*****g stressful.

You could say that that theory is the same as the current one, the inability to recognize the existence of others, and that others aren't separate from self.

Do individuals with Asperger's Disorder show difficulty with pronouns, and speaking in first person?