I have a 22 months old daughter diagnosed to have Aspergers

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Age1600
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06 Sep 2008, 4:07 pm

sonar wrote:
I've read that gluten & Casein is not good for her, and that it can be picked up in urine because the body can not absorb it, is that true?


gluten and casein affects each individual differently, its a very expensive diet, its very hard to keep at, and if you do the diet make sure to give plenty of calcium pills because their has been studies that kids on that diet end up getting serious bone problems. If you see her behavior worsen with casien and gluten get her checked to see if she is allergic to them, then try the diet, but it would be better until u waited until u found out if she was really allergic and it is worth all the time and money into that diet. Good luck!


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sonar
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06 Sep 2008, 4:58 pm

I just want to say thanks for all the advice, it is much appreciated. And yes, I am well aware that she has certain nutritional needs. The soya milk she is on is meant for children from 7 months on wards, and it has 300mg of calcium per serving, as well as other vitamins. She will be getting lots of fresh fruits like apple and banana etc. I will be buying fresh (not processed) vegetables, mixed packs, so she will have a variety of veg. She loves deep fried wedgies of potatoes, rice, chicken and bacon etc. She will be getting rooibos tea, apple juice, tea with soya milk and soya based chocolate drinks.

I don’t think taking away milk and wheat based products will leave her malnourished, there is corn & rice as well. Her porridge is called Coco Pops, and it is made with rice.

Thanks, I will do a google search for corn bread, here in South Africa, the product is labeled Maize flour.

Come to think of it, when she was on cow’s milk and normal cheese, she was constipated most of the time. It once got so bad, that she cried in agony, I had to get her meds for her tummy.

Tonight, after having been on the soya milk the whole day, she seems a little brighter and more energetic than usual. I am going to keep an eye on things and see how it progresses from here. It could be that the normal cow’s milk has made her feel a little sluggish


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Callista
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06 Sep 2008, 5:05 pm

Sounds to me like she might be lactose-intolerant. That's fairly common and wouldn't be surprising even for a typical kid. Does she get stomach problems every time she drinks milk?

She could theoretically grow out of it--many very small kids have less efficient digestion than adults. That's why very small babies don't get cow's milk; they can't digest it. Yours isn't very much past baby yet.

Go ahead & talk to a nutritionist about getting her the right diet without the milk. Your pediatrician should be able to point you to one, possibly one specialized in kids (kids' systems are different, obviously).

Milk is "not the best food" for touchy digestive systems because it is not easily digested. Lactose is a complex molecule, and not everybody makes enough of the enzyme needed to break it down. It is nutritious, but if you can't digest it well, you can't benefit from the nutrition in it. If you can digest it, you should probably be drinking it (unless you're allergic or vegan or something)... but if you can't, it won't do you any good, and you'll get diarrhea, cramps, gas, and generally be pretty miserable.

I've never had trouble with milk. I would have been better off if I had had it as a child, I think. Or, at the very least, calcium supplements. But my mother didn't drink milk or eat wheat from the time I was nine to the time I was old enough to buy my own food, so neither did her kids. Weirdly enough, the only child helped by the GF/CF diet in my family is the middle, non-autistic, sister. My littlest sister has trouble digesting red meat but no problems with milk or wheat. I'm not even texture/taste-sensitive.

If you are seeing her with more energy without milk, she might have been using that energy trying to digest the milk or deal with the indigestion... But do beware that you can easily connect in your mind unconnected coincidences... It's not that you're not using logic; it's that the human brain wants to find patterns and searches through every bit of data it gets for patterns. That means you sometimes see patterns in randomness.

I sometimes wonder if the typical children suffer digestive problems because their parents don't pay as much attention to possible problems as the moms of autistic children do... in neither case is the neurology affected but both groups are a lot happier and more comfortable if they don't constantly have tummyaches.


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Last edited by Callista on 06 Sep 2008, 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sonar
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06 Sep 2008, 5:11 pm

Well, all I can do, is give it time and see if there is any visible results with changing over from cow's milk to soya based milk. The wheat is another story, It could be that she can cope with that, but I'm not going to take that chance. I will look into what foods can replace that.

Thanks.


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06 Sep 2008, 5:14 pm

LostInSpace wrote:
ProtossX wrote:
how could someone who can do something better then everyone else be on a poor diet?


I think the idea is that kids with autism don't process gluten or casein well. Presumably the athletes who thrive on cow's milk don't have this problem.


maybe thats because there parents didn't give them any and now they cant tolerate at it all?

If I don't ever run a race do you think my body is going to be able to tolerate a 10 mile marathon?

some people don't realize that if u drink milk enough you become how should i say very TOLERANT of it and your body works with it very well

if you don't drink something especially milk your body might not be able to handle it as well as people who drink it alot

and what were seeing is parents putting these kids on gluten free diet cuz they think they have autism an now there unable tod rink milk at all in there adult life cuz there body just can't take it.

and these ppl are now suffering having been unable to get the nutrients and good stuff that milk brings to the human body and thats just pretty sad imo

im sorry but im a big milk fan and its done nothing but good stuff for me



Last edited by ProtossX on 06 Sep 2008, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Callista
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06 Sep 2008, 5:15 pm

It's not automatically milk or wheat. Some kids can't handle other stuff. And sometimes it's not digestive, but a taste/texture issue. Yeah... complicated.


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06 Sep 2008, 5:19 pm

One man's meat is another man's poison.

I've heard that soy is a problem for some people, too. You just need to pay attention and figure out what's best for your kid. And when she expresses an opinion, listen.

Keep in mind that it was the experts with their state-of-the-art understandings who bled George Washington to death. Autism is still a relatively new concept, and nobody really knows anything.
If they try to push you around, run away.

Question: I heard long ago that tolerance for milk is an ethnic thing, that people in certain areas of the world used cow's milk in primitive times and others did not, and that their descendants today still have those tolerances. Has anyone heard anything along those lines lately?


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Callista
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06 Sep 2008, 6:35 pm

Not quite ethnic, but definitely genetic. The groups of people who started milking cows the earliest started having kids survive more often if they could digest lactose, so that trait gave those kids an advantage and got passed on. In other areas, where being able to digest milk wasn't so important, that trait wasn't such an advantage; and today, the people who trace their ancestry back to people who started herding cows later than most are also the people most likely to be lactose-intolerant.


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06 Sep 2008, 6:56 pm

ProtossX wrote:
maybe thats because there parents didn't give them any and now they cant tolerate at it all?


Except that we're not talking about kids who weren't ever given milk as children and then can't process it as adults. We're talking about kids who spent their early years drinking milk, and *then* their parents took them off it and saw improvements. So they had just as much milk in their early years as anyone else.


Then there are other people who don't believe anyone should be drinking milk past the age of babyhood (past the age of weaning), but that's another story.



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07 Sep 2008, 8:44 pm

Soy isnt good for you....its just cheep and easy to grow. It is difficult to digest and it messes with your thyroid. Most of this Autism diet crap is just people out to make money with thier gluten and casen free products. Its someones theory thats gone out of control thanks to people like Jenny McCarthy.



sonar
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08 Sep 2008, 12:47 am

Who is Jenny McCarthy?


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08 Sep 2008, 1:51 am

Jenny McCarthy -- Don't cry for us
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt73627.html

Personally, I believe Jenny might have part of the truth.
Like the six blind men and the elephant, we should be comparing notes rather than arguing.

On the other hand, I still want to argue about her use of the word, "cure."
And the "autistic" vs "person with autism" debate.

Here's another piece of that elephant: http://joyofautism.blogspot.com/


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sonar
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08 Sep 2008, 2:41 am

Ok, I've spoken to someone at this place

Autism Western Cape
autismwesterncape.org.za/resources

About the removal fo gluten and casein. It seems to be true for small children. aparently I can subsitute the cow's milk with rice milk & subliments.


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08 Sep 2008, 11:17 am

Fnord wrote:
sonar wrote:
demoluca wrote:
No. Autism is a brain disorder. Urine and blood wouldn't work.

Some say it is a brain disorder, some say it is a gut thing. Does that depend on what part of the spectrum a person falls under?

It is a brain disorder, acquired genetically. It is not a disease, therefore it can not be cured. Your child is not damaged, therefore she can not be 'fixed.' It is not a chemical imbalance, therefore it can not be detected in the blood or urine. It is not the result of anything you've done, done wrong, done too much, or not done enough.

Your daughter's brain is merely 'wired' differently from neuro-typicals (NTs) such as yourself. She can be trained to communicate effectively with NT's, but since she perceives her world differently than you, some of the concepts may not translate well.

Autism is not a 'gut thing.' Diet (gluten, protein, et cetera), and allergies (fur, foods, pollen, et cetera) may only seem to play a factor, but when you are in discomfort and can't communicate what's wrong, and maybe you don't even understand what's happening to you, it may seem to others that you are just 'spazzing' or 'freaking' out and they will attribute your behavior to autism alone without even considering that you might be suffering.

Please don't be so quick to try every 'cure' or 'treatment' suggested by well-meaning (but ignorant) friends and relatives or 'prescribed' by homeopathic or new-age practitioners (quacks and fakers all). Strange herbs and a rapidly varying diet will only cause your daughter to have more tummy-aches and down days. Try to keep her diet consistent, and avoid the latest fad treatments unless prescribed by a licensed and practicing medical professional - but only if that doctor has a specialty in pediatrics, behavioral disorders, allergies, or some other medical discipline that is relevant to your daughter's conditions.

And after this, consult only with your daughter's physician regarding your daughter's treatment. People have died from following the advice of a stranger they know only from online posts and articles.

Best wishes.


dont listen to him about naturopathic and homeopathic practitioners. They are not "new age" and they get superior results to conventional practitioners and are really the only people you can turn to for exotic conditions like autism. Naturopaths/Homeopaths/Tcm's are licenced in 13 states and growing and there is considerable clinical evidence for icams veracity. Your child will always be an aspie but the severity can be greatly reduced.

Most conventional doctors has wrongheaded ideas when it comes to things like nutrition and will most likely reccomend ineffective and toxic psychiatric drugs for your daughter

I happen to see a naturopath myself and she has helped me immensly, she brought me back from the brink of destruction actually.

I can send you some clinical studies for icam if you want.



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08 Sep 2008, 11:20 am

Callista wrote:
Sounds to me like she might be lactose-intolerant. That's fairly common and wouldn't be surprising even for a typical kid. Does she get stomach problems every time she drinks milk?

She could theoretically grow out of it--many very small kids have less efficient digestion than adults. That's why very small babies don't get cow's milk; they can't digest it. Yours isn't very much past baby yet.

Go ahead & talk to a nutritionist about getting her the right diet without the milk. Your pediatrician should be able to point you to one, possibly one specialized in kids (kids' systems are different, obviously).

Milk is "not the best food" for touchy digestive systems because it is not easily digested. Lactose is a complex molecule, and not everybody makes enough of the enzyme needed to break it down. It is nutritious, but if you can't digest it well, you can't benefit from the nutrition in it. If you can digest it, you should probably be drinking it (unless you're allergic or vegan or something)... but if you can't, it won't do you any good, and you'll get diarrhea, cramps, gas, and generally be pretty miserable.

I've never had trouble with milk. I would have been better off if I had had it as a child, I think. Or, at the very least, calcium supplements. But my mother didn't drink milk or eat wheat from the time I was nine to the time I was old enough to buy my own food, so neither did her kids. Weirdly enough, the only child helped by the GF/CF diet in my family is the middle, non-autistic, sister. My littlest sister has trouble digesting red meat but no problems with milk or wheat. I'm not even texture/taste-sensitive.

If you are seeing her with more energy without milk, she might have been using that energy trying to digest the milk or deal with the indigestion... But do beware that you can easily connect in your mind unconnected coincidences... It's not that you're not using logic; it's that the human brain wants to find patterns and searches through every bit of data it gets for patterns. That means you sometimes see patterns in randomness.

I sometimes wonder if the typical children suffer digestive problems because their parents don't pay as much attention to possible problems as the moms of autistic children do... in neither case is the neurology affected but both groups are a lot happier and more comfortable if they don't constantly have tummyaches.


i would just go and see an nd or integrative md with knowledge of autism. Many nutristionists are flaky people with little to no training.



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08 Sep 2008, 12:17 pm

Autism Western Cape is the group behind the Jail4Bail fiasco but they seem to mean well and I couldn't find any of the usual conflicts of interest (such as also running a health food store).

Regardless as others have stated a GFCF diet is only useful for specific digestive problems its not a cure all and even in the cases where it helps people on the spectrum its not a miracle while most are happy that it helps at all you cant really expect more than a mild improvement.

Just remember that everyone is different like in my own experience I tend to have the most sensory problems when I don't get enough gluten.


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