What are some specific characteristics of girls/women with

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LostInSpace
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23 Sep 2008, 4:27 am

Poopylungstuffing, that is the cutest avatar ever!


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23 Sep 2008, 5:33 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
pandd wrote:
Quote:
I've also read that some experts have speculated that females as a group have a higher propensity toward 'soft science' interests, for instance languages, literature, sociology, history/historic figures, individual persons, than do males as a group.


That's true too. My favorite subject in high school was Psychology, next, English/Lit.
In college I excelled at English/Lit and Art.

EngLit was a total foreign language to me.
The only subject I got a 'U' (unclassifiable) in.
Hehe.
All the others I did well in.
Doesn't help that it was endless reading aloud and examination of characters/motivations in class.
Not good for a hyper-right-brained Asp.

It seemed totally alien and the definitive embodiment of pointlessness.

Why do we need to infer an author's (much less his fictional characters') motivations for writing particular novels ?

That's not why the author wrote them, after all.

Surely, the joy of a book is an extremely subjective and highly personal thing ?

It's a ridiculous absurdity to deconstruct any kind of artistic endeavour.

Not to mention, feckin' pretentious !



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23 Sep 2008, 6:39 am

I never liked things that aren't true like imagined characters that were too far from reality, though I have always liked teddy bears. Never dolls because I couldn't do imaginative play, so whilst other girls made up stories with their dolls, I watched and didn't get it.



liloleme
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23 Sep 2008, 11:13 am

I think most girls with AS were sort of tomboyish as children....actually, I still cant relate to being a woman. Im sort of this strange genderless creature. I was telling my husband the other night that I cant relate to being a woman and I also dont relate to being a man. I think I have this image of me as a little tomboy girl and it kind of freaks me out when I look in the mirror and see this aging person.
I think that when you are a girl more pressure is put on you to be "nice" and care for others. You learn that you need to "check" on the people in your life when they are sick....ask how they are feeling and bla bla. Its not natural for me to inquire "how are you?" but its something that Ive learned I am supposed to do so I do it.
I know when I was a child I learned to play all of the games with the other kids but it wasnt fun to play with them....it was an act that I needed to pull off in order to be accpted. I really wanted other kids to like me....although I wasnt always too successful at it. It was easy to have fun and enjoy myself when I was alone playing with other kids was most times a chore. Also when I was younger boys were much easier to make friends with as we shared the same types of interests, like observing bugs and such. When I was older I had a couple of guy friends only to be upset when I found out that they wanted more than friendship. I think I can relate to the way guys think and view the world more than I can with other women.....unless they are also Autistic :) .



Last edited by liloleme on 23 Sep 2008, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Kaleido
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23 Sep 2008, 11:37 am

liloleme wrote:
I think most girls with AS were sort of tomboyish as children....actually, I still cant relate to being a woman. Im sort of this strange genderless creature. I was telling my husband the other night that I cant relate to being a woman and I also dont relate to being a man.

I was like this too but these days I make an effort to dress like a female and often wear skirts. Most days I wear at least a bracelet and perfume as a reminder of my gender. I am not sure if some of what I have felt is due to how society sees girls or if it is more to do with how our brains work or even if its because we feel a bit out of normal society anyway, but its a struggle this gender thing.

[/quote]Also when I was younger boys were much easier to make friends with as we shared the same types of interests, like observing bugs and such. When I was older I had a couple of guy friends only to be upset when I found out that they wanted more than friendship. I think I can relate to the way guys think and view the world than more than I can with other women.....unless they are also Autistic :) .[/quote]
My best friends are my male friends from childhood still. Yes, it is upsetting when males want more than friendship, I have this problem a lot with meeting up with people, thinking we are just socialising and then finding out that one of the males is looking at me as a thing he might want to get intimate with. Its not flattering. Its hard when you feel almost genderless to see how others might be interpreting normal friendliness and sociability. If we are not friendly, we are seen to be stuck up and if we are friendly, then some males assume they are in with a chance. How one gets it right I just don't know.



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23 Sep 2008, 1:25 pm

I was definitely a "little philosopher" as a child, and relatively tomboyish, as I was always getting my clothes muddy. I did have some Barbies and a Cabbage Patch Kid doll, but I was also likely to play with my younger brother's trucks and Legos. To this day, I would rather wear slacks than a skirt or dress because I like fabric on my legs, and I think pantyhose are really a torture device.


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23 Sep 2008, 5:34 pm

Oh frilly things no thank you! I spent alot of time with art, pencils, boxes, stones and shiny paper. Music, pulling out pans and banging on them, piano. Lterature, devouring books and writing little poems/stories. Though for a long time I could only write certain words, some were good and bad words and numbers (OCD) Little magpie, collecting things. Though the little phiosopher definately kicked in in my teens. I just didn't have a clue why I wasn't moving on like everyone else, guess work ensued as to differences. Twas odd, spent hours on school projects, art became philosophy/phchology of others actions. I still do not naturally understand, thoguh i'm usually closer than most when it comes to proposing intentions. Wouldn't have minded being a great speller though :?

Interesting Oblio. Fair assertion. I digressed from 7 then again at 12 and further still at 17, it's been a riot! But then 7 would be motor wise, handwriting and reading ec, 12 would be major OCD Tourettes bombardment and 17 tourettes side and isolation, a real sense of purpuse in study, cut off all frieds but one and did not intergrate at all at home. Seems the self harming hit at around 14 to 19, or rather taking things out on myself, imploding, anger, couple of glasses lost their form :( Frustration certainly worsened with age, though my OCD is not as all pervading, nor sensory issues, just highly uncomfortable, plus IQ is apparently high. I mean to say, I do not feel my intelligence suffered, merely my ability and desire to communicate my ideas. Most of the time I would think hay, they don't deserve an explanation, and if they did, I did not care to provide them with one (used to love informing, grew cinical with age.)



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23 Sep 2008, 7:54 pm

I think females are more literary oriented and males are more mathematically-oriented.



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23 Sep 2008, 9:47 pm

As a youngster, I developed into a tomboy fairly early. Hated anything girly...dresses, skirts, ruffles, lace, etc. Dressing like a girl just wasn't comfortable for me. I knew from the time I was pretty young that I wasn't like other girls in my peer group. I loved drawing, reading, learning about animals, music, & the outdoors. I also preferred boys toys (so much cooler!), & just being active. I drove my mom crazy because I didn't look or act like a normal girl. She insisted I wear my hair long, & I suppose that was the most girlish thing about me, even though I hated it. I bit my nails down to the quick well into high school. I also hated most subjects that girls were supposed to like. I didn't do well in school. Most subjects just didn't appeal to me.

I still prefer my jeans & tank tops/t-shirts to normal feminine attire. I still have tomboy attributes, & probably always will. Except now, I don"t have to apologize for my behavior as much as I used to. I still get bullied, yelled at, & abused, except now I don't have to change into someone I am not.

As far as interests goes, I have many from paleo-anthropology to photography. I tend to delve deeply into whatever subject interests me...I have to go deeper than just the surface! Psychology is one such interest. I am also curious about what makes me different from others & to know that others exist who have similarities to me.


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sunshower
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24 Sep 2008, 12:02 am

liloleme wrote:
I think most girls with AS were sort of tomboyish as children....actually, I still cant relate to being a woman. Im sort of this strange genderless creature. I was telling my husband the other night that I cant relate to being a woman and I also dont relate to being a man. I think I have this image of me as a little tomboy girl and it kind of freaks me out when I look in the mirror and see this aging person.
I think that when you are a girl more pressure is put on you to be "nice" and care for others. You learn that you need to "check" on the people in your life when they are sick....ask how they are feeling and bla bla. Its not natural for me to inquire "how are you?" but its something that Ive learned I am supposed to do so I do it.
I know when I was a child I learned to play all of the games with the other kids but it wasnt fun to play with them....it was an act that I needed to pull off in order to be accpted. I really wanted other kids to like me....although I wasnt always too successful at it. It was easy to have fun and enjoy myself when I was alone playing with other kids was most times a chore. Also when I was younger boys were much easier to make friends with as we shared the same types of interests, like observing bugs and such. When I was older I had a couple of guy friends only to be upset when I found out that they wanted more than friendship. I think I can relate to the way guys think and view the world more than I can with other women.....unless they are also Autistic :) .


Same here. I've always felt genderless, and I've always been a tomboy. The vast majority of my friends are males. Females often weird me out. They're really complicated, often incomprehensible, and rarely straight forward.


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Saffy
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24 Sep 2008, 12:23 am

There is not a huge amount of literature about on females on the spectrum, it's only recently that people have started looking at why the diagnosis rate is so much lower than in boys.

Some of the things that I have read about and look for in girls are the same as in boys but there are some that are different ( this is with children under 5 years of age )

Doll collecting or just collecting in general - girls are much more aware of the current "trend" and will often hop on the latest bandwagon. ( if there is a "set" they will want to have the complete set.. to have part of a set only or have one or two items missing .. is upsetting and the collection is often unsatisfactory unless complete.

Horses/animals drawing and nature based activities seem to be really common ( as young adults often concerned with animal rights or environmental issues )

Lots of involvement in fantasy play - they will often read/enjoy fantasy type books

as they get older they tend to be drawn more to what would be considered good literature or sciences rather than the " trashy " type novels and romance novels that a lot of women seem to read.
In play in a younger child, they can either go one of two ways .. either being very quiet and following the lead of the girls around them.. copying the play, but rarely coming up with their own scenario or ideas - they will often replay things they have seen around the home ( which is normal for all children ) but with girls with ASD this persists longer than would be expected. These girls are often seen as shy and rarely have attention drawn to them. These are the girls that are often not picked up until they are older as being somewhat different.

Also girls will often have more of a tendency to act out things rather than describe them and can be very good at drama type activities.. an example - a little girl I work with ..

She was asked to describe a tiger ( no tiger present .. no picture of a tiger , no prompts ) ... rather than saying It's like a big cat and orange and stripey - or something to that effect - which every other child did when asked to describe an animal ) she decided to be the tiger , and crawled around on all fours growling .. and pretending to be a tiger.

Conversely they may like to direct the play and become VERY upset when someone else has an idea. Often it is not so much what they are doing as the ability to adjust and adapt within the play and " go with the flow "

Persisting "baby talk" and or high pitch.

Not joining in large group activities - small group and normally one or two special friends. Usually these girls are sitting at the back or to the side in large group activities and are often a bit lost as to what on earth is going on or what is expected.

Perseverative language and choice of topics ( I had a little girl that would tell me every time she saw me "Jack is my baby brother " this was her safety phrase.. it was her opening line for conversation with everyone.

Difficulty with change in routine and flexibility ( the same little girl would eat her lunch items in the same order every day and if there was a different item in her lunch box- even if she liked the food - she would not eat it at all )

Imaginary friends that often persist past an appropriate age.

Often seeking out younger children to play with rather than their peers or alternatively adults - but will avoid interaction with what would be considered age peers. Or alternatively they will seek out another child that has similar ASD features.. or someone very dominant.. so that they have someone else telling them what they should be doing. But typical age peers seem to be their last choice for friends at preschool level.

Girls tend to adapt better socially imitating what is expected, although not always understanding what it is that they are doing , but they understand the social rules are important and will try to follow them ( normally ) So looking at a young age for insight as to why they are doing what they are doing.

Many of the other things that we look for in girls are the same as with young boys, language patterns in particular around abstract concepts and general problem solving/planning , literal language use etc.

If you look through the list of things above.. many of them could apply to NT girls .. so it is about the number of features present and also with some things it is about " how persistent are some of these characteristics and also the quality of interactions. Girls are not easy to pick up at such a young age.. because they are great at copying the same as everyone else.
It is often around their teen years that things get a bit tricky , as social interactions become more complex and teens start to look at their place in the world and recognise that they are different and are not sure how to fit in or where they fit in.



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24 Sep 2008, 3:13 am

Saffy wrote:
There is not a huge amount of literature about on females on the spectrum, it's only recently that people have started looking at why the diagnosis rate is so much lower than in boys.

Some of the things that I have read about and look for in girls are the same as in boys but there are some that are different ( this is with children under 5 years of age )

Doll collecting or just collecting in general - girls are much more aware of the current "trend" and will often hop on the latest bandwagon. ( if there is a "set" they will want to have the complete set.. to have part of a set only or have one or two items missing .. is upsetting and the collection is often unsatisfactory unless complete.

Horses/animals drawing and nature based activities seem to be really common ( as young adults often concerned with animal rights or environmental issues )

Lots of involvement in fantasy play - they will often read/enjoy fantasy type books

as they get older they tend to be drawn more to what would be considered good literature or sciences rather than the " trashy " type novels and romance novels that a lot of women seem to read.
In play in a younger child, they can either go one of two ways .. either being very quiet and following the lead of the girls around them.. copying the play, but rarely coming up with their own scenario or ideas - they will often replay things they have seen around the home ( which is normal for all children ) but with girls with ASD this persists longer than would be expected. These girls are often seen as shy and rarely have attention drawn to them. These are the girls that are often not picked up until they are older as being somewhat different.

Also girls will often have more of a tendency to act out things rather than describe them and can be very good at drama type activities.. an example - a little girl I work with ..

She was asked to describe a tiger ( no tiger present .. no picture of a tiger , no prompts ) ... rather than saying It's like a big cat and orange and stripey - or something to that effect - which every other child did when asked to describe an animal ) she decided to be the tiger , and crawled around on all fours growling .. and pretending to be a tiger.

Conversely they may like to direct the play and become VERY upset when someone else has an idea. Often it is not so much what they are doing as the ability to adjust and adapt within the play and " go with the flow "

Persisting "baby talk" and or high pitch.

Not joining in large group activities - small group and normally one or two special friends. Usually these girls are sitting at the back or to the side in large group activities and are often a bit lost as to what on earth is going on or what is expected.

Perseverative language and choice of topics ( I had a little girl that would tell me every time she saw me "Jack is my baby brother " this was her safety phrase.. it was her opening line for conversation with everyone.

Difficulty with change in routine and flexibility ( the same little girl would eat her lunch items in the same order every day and if there was a different item in her lunch box- even if she liked the food - she would not eat it at all )

Imaginary friends that often persist past an appropriate age.

Often seeking out younger children to play with rather than their peers or alternatively adults - but will avoid interaction with what would be considered age peers. Or alternatively they will seek out another child that has similar ASD features.. or someone very dominant.. so that they have someone else telling them what they should be doing. But typical age peers seem to be their last choice for friends at preschool level.

Girls tend to adapt better socially imitating what is expected, although not always understanding what it is that they are doing , but they understand the social rules are important and will try to follow them ( normally ) So looking at a young age for insight as to why they are doing what they are doing.

Many of the other things that we look for in girls are the same as with young boys, language patterns in particular around abstract concepts and general problem solving/planning , literal language use etc.

If you look through the list of things above.. many of them could apply to NT girls .. so it is about the number of features present and also with some things it is about " how persistent are some of these characteristics and also the quality of interactions. Girls are not easy to pick up at such a young age.. because they are great at copying the same as everyone else.
It is often around their teen years that things get a bit tricky , as social interactions become more complex and teens start to look at their place in the world and recognise that they are different and are not sure how to fit in or where they fit in.

Wow, what a post, Saffy.

You seem to have summed the essence of my childhood up in a few paragraphs.

That's as good as a formal dx, for me.
Thanks.

You should start your own blog, here.
Your experience and insight as a professional, will I'm certain, prove extremely useful to a lot of people coming here.

Personally, I'd love to read about your day-to-day work and past experiences thereof.

Why don't you start one ?
You're the perfect blogger.
Lots of interesting things backed up by a large repository of experience in the field.
An engaging and authoritative writing style.
Doesn't have to be huge (at least, not to start with ;) ) .



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24 Sep 2008, 3:26 am

Member six, you must think like a girl.

http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/polepino/C ... sbian.html


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24 Sep 2008, 3:35 am

Magnus wrote:
Member six, you must think like a girl.


I don't know - I've never been a girl.

I always enjoyed sports and driving - and planes, trains and automobiles - and computers.
I also hate shopping and soap opera.

But I HATE the hunting of animals, love cats/cute animals.

I guess we're all a mish-mash of male and female traits.

There can very few people who are totally male or totally female.
Mind you, there are a few blokes who are totally gay.



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24 Sep 2008, 3:44 am

Magnus wrote:
http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/polepino/Chapter05/Malelesbian.html

Hmm. Seems I don't fit that profile.
I prefer male to female company.

Women are great - but boy, are they high maintenance.

I'm not mysogynistic or anything, but I do find that ladypeople can be VERY status-conscious (as in the social hierarchical sense) and sometimes, extremely mean.

I suspect I'm a bit of a hippy underneath - as I have a deep admiration of the beauty and awe of nature - and find it an almost spiritual thing .... certainly very uplifting to be in places of immense beauty.



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24 Sep 2008, 4:16 am

Male lesbians? I think I am the reverse.

I agree with all these stereotypes. After all, a stereo type wouldn't exist if it didn't contain some truth.
Literature, animals, psychology, philosophy, fantasy, are all the things I love.


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