What do u understand the term "passive-aggressive"

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Personally I use passive aggression to vent my rage but mainly because regular aggression is too stressful for me, I get all teary eyed and I tremble so hard and my heart races so hard, even people that I get angry at fear for my health when Im like that.

quote="anbuend"

Wow!. This is really the best definition I've come across. (I haven't read this thread completely, stopped here on anbuend's explanation because it is so powerful and concise.) If I ever doubted a certain person in my life was PA, I don't any more after reading this. Also, regarding playing dumb, I think it could also be said that the PA person can project his/her own playing dumb onto the target when he/she is asked by the target for clarification of words, situations, behavior, and by doing this "all the time" frustrate the target and obstruct any attempt for resolution of problems within the relationship. I think much of this behavior is unconscious, especially in cases where the PA is unaware that such a behavior as PA exists at all, anywhere, much less has a name.

I suppose anyone can have passive aggressive tendencies to a degree, and I think being raised in an environment where one is severely dominated by parents, siblings, or other authority figures and not allowed to express ideas and opinions or make objections or complaints and being led to believe by such treatment that one's entire existence is invalid and entirely dependent on the whims of the tyrants in charge, could certainly produce a PA personality.

I don't know if you were referring to my previous comment, but I've decided that was a bad example

Another situation where something that I thought was an acceptable/intended-to-be-less-rude comment was dismissed as passive aggressive:

Criticism: I've noticed it has been a week since you last emptied your mailbox.
What I'm guessing was preferred: Empty your goddamned mailbox, you son-of-a-bitch.

It took me a long time to learn about passive aggression. In my experience, it's someone who cannot and will not tell the truth. They are consistently indirect about everything and when angered become passive aggressive and even cruel.

I on the other hand am guilty of being too direct, honest and to the point. I have trouble mincing words and don't have a capacity to create that sort of illusion or nonsense. My friends know this very well about me and I am highly trusted and valued that way for my honesty. I find if people want to judge me or put a label on me, that is them.

Last edited by Meadow on 23 Sep 2010, 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Passively aggressive is exactly what it sounds like. If you're aggressively aggressive, that's being direct with aggressive feelings and telling someone, usually rudely, how you feel. 'You're an idiot because you never read instructions before doing anything.'

Passive aggressive is passively being aggressive. Say a husband and wife are in a car, and after an hour of driving around in near circles, the wife remarks "Well if we stopped and asked somebody for directions twenty miles ago. . ." with that bitter tone of voice that makes the husband feel like the wife thinks he's an idiot for not stopping for directions. She's not directly coming out and saying 'You really should have asked for directions so we could be to our destination by now', she's jabbing him pretty roughly, but it's in a passive, innocent manner.

Or say, if a wife tries to fix something and the husband comes up and says 'Some people can't do anything right,'. . . he's not directly insulting her, necessarily, and not directly coming out and saying what's bothering him, but it's painfully and probably hurtfully obvious to the wife that he means she's not capable of fixing _____, or, for that matter, doing anything correctly.

It's jabbing at someone or something with the intent, or subconscious intent to upset them or make your point, passively--- not directly, but indirectly.

Passive, yes. Not so sure I agree with "innocent" though. Sometimes I think it is subconscious, and so maybe innocent, but I think it's more often than not very deliberate, but devised to appear innocent, or at least more easily deniable (as if it were innocent). I think that's what you meant.



Exactly.

Yeah, but in those situations those comments are obviously directed at the only person present and are meant to be insulting--how is that still passive? A passive-aggressive person, I would think, would make it difficult for someone else to find faults with him/her and would even pretend to like another person while complaining about him/her behind his/her back.

Exactly. It's not that easy to identify, because they are always the nice guy.

The passive aggressive person would be the one that has other issues. You might think they are nice but they sabotage stuff and you are aware of it and it bothers you.

I remember asking here several years ago if it's ever confused anyone when people be mean to you and then all of a sudden the are nice and I told a few examples in my life. I got told it was called passive aggressive behavior and was told it's something bullies do. When they want something from you, they act all nice and friendly towards you. I've had that happen to me from kids when I was a kid.


But I wonder what if the person said they were going to do something and they don't do it because something else came up or they never got around to it and it wasn't their intention or they just forgot? Is that still passive aggressive? What about people who procrastinate?

Are these examples of passive aggressive behavior:

My mom is a nurse, she works with pregnant patients, she told me on the phone one night how she has patients who aren't very smart because they make the same mistakes again. She told me how she tells them they are gaining weight too quick or putting on too much and they aren't eating right so she tells them what they need to eat and they go "It's too hard" and she thinks "oh for god's sake" but I doubt she expresses it because it can cost her her job for treating her patients poorly if she talked down to them. So is it passive aggressive behavior when doctors and nurses and therapists don't express their thoughts to their patients and they just keep it to themselves? Instead they continue acting all nice not even expressing their negative thoughts on them. While they are being all nice and helping them, they are thinking bad of them and probably when they get home or are on break, they talk about how dumb some people are. I have heard my mom tell funny stories about her patients but she doesn't say who they were and all due to the law. When I would ask why did this person think this or do that and she goes "Some people are stupid."

The following is a quote from http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 000943.htm (It isn't a recognized disorder anymore, but the behavior is very real)

"Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a long-term (chronic) condition in which a person seems to actively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them. In the process, the person becomes increasingly hostile and angry."

Usually, people like this promise or agree to do certain things, but then never do them at all (procrastinate until it's too late), or do a half ass job at whatever it is. Doing that repeatedly usually results in people harping on them to get the job done, and being bugged constantly about it makes them angry. Procrastination is often passive aggressive, but not always. Sometimes people really just don't remember to get things done.

If someone is really nice one minute, and tearing your head off the next, it can be passive aggressive behavior, but not necessarily. It depends on the situation. If you're trying to get them to do or agree to something, and they are very agreeable at first, but it isn't getting done so you ask about it and they react with anger, that is passive aggression. If they're just being nice, but it's just a conversation or something like that (they haven't really agreed to any sort of task or compromise), and they suddenly turn on you, that's probably more like a mood swing that could be caused by any number of things from a personality disorder to something bad that happened to them that you don't know about.

The key difference in the quote above is "resist." Passive aggressors act and speak as though they are in willing agreement with you (though they may be consciously aware they don't want to, or they may really believe they are willing, but subconsciously they aren't really willing at all), then resist things they don't really want to do.

Passive resistors break promises all the time. Sometimes it's purposeful. Sometimes it's not, because at the time they make the promise they really believe what they're saying, but the reality is that they don't follow through.

The passive part is when they are willingly agreeing to things, and then not doing them. Both of those are passive.

The aggression comes when, after they haven't followed through, and they are reminded to do it, or told they didn't do the job well, they react with anger.

I was never good with keeping commitments, does that make me passive aggressive? That's why I stopped trying to make deals. I do want to keep them but I end up finding it hard to keep for some reason and I used to keep thinking I can keep it and then I realized I shouldn't be making them or agreeing if I am no good at it. It makes me bad if I do it.

Would you consider Bipolar people and people with emotional problems passive aggressive? One minute they are nice and calm and charming and the next thing you know they blow up at you. Same as people with PTSD.

I recall seeing aspies here saying how they never do things they say they do because they have troubles saying no, would that be passive aggressive? They be procrastinating.


I wonder if my ex had passive aggressive behavior? He was always procrastinating and if you kept bugging him to get it done, he get upset and walk away from what he is supposed to be doing due to anxiety. He get stressed when people keep trying to push him or bug him to do something. It drove me crazy. Same as when he say we were leaving and we never do and it just drive me crazy because I didn't know when. There was no time limit so I would keep saying "Can we leave yet?" and I felt like my first ex. He was always doing it but the difference was I would tell him the time we would leave so he would know but he would still keep on asking. But with my second ex, there was no time limit and at the time I felt like a big hypocrite because I was doing exactly what my ex did.
But I also hear not doing something you say you are going to do is emotional manipulation so what is the difference between that and passive aggressive behavior when it comes to procrastination?


I find the word very confusing and you did say it is confusing. Do NTs have difficulty with it too or is it just me with the problem?

I think that's just changing your mind. I know what you mean about that too. I used to have the same problem always thinking I should say yes to everything, then realizing I couldn't do it all. I wouldn't call that passive aggressive. It can become that though, if it ends in frustration and anger. But if you really just can't fulfill, and are able to simply explain, "I'm sorry, I can't. I know I said I could, but I probably shouldn't have," that wouldn't be passive aggression, because instead of getting angry, you diffuse the situation.



Sure, they can be. Anyone can be. But that swing from being nice one minute to blowing up the next, with bipolar, PTSD (borderline personality disorder is another), is often just part of the disorder. Whether it's passive aggressive or not depends on whether it's related to a commitment of some sort.

Or, it can be a hidden dislike or hatred for someone too. They may not come right out and say they don't like you, but this is how it shows. That is passive aggressive too.



I don't think so. I think trouble with saying no is more of a problem with either self esteem (feeling as though you CAN say no), or not a good ability to judge whether you are promising too much.




I think you're right about your first ex. Sounds like with your second, you may have just been repeating what you knew because it was familiar. It's hard to break habits. Even the bad ones are still comfortable in some strange way. Even things that don't feel good, if you are used to them, are hard to get rid of.



They can be exactly the same. It's all in the motivation behind them. This can be confusing too, because even the passively aggressive person may not realize they are being that way. They may be in denial, promising things they really mean to deliver on, but never do. Deep inside they may not really want to. Or, they may really want to but realize they can't (just like above ~ poor judgment), then get angry because they can't. That is emotional manipulation.

If you just realize you over extended yourself, and apologize for it, that's different.



Anyone can behave like this. Anyone at all.

Yes it is confusing. I hope you realize I'm just giving you my opinion of what it's all about based on my own experience with it. I used to be very passive aggressive. I'm still kind of figuring it out myself. Looking through this thread I've seen some things mentioned I didn't agree with at first, but after thinking about them I'm kind of seeing some of them could be right on. Guess I'm a little confused myself.

I've run into a ton of passive aggression.

It's hard to single out whether someone's being "passive aggressive" on purpose to be mean, or whether they're doing it in their own warped thinking, to be "nice". And by that I mean, the conflict avoidance passive aggressive behaviors.

I'd rather someone said what they really thought rather than sigh and not say anything and just behave...passive aggressively. With silence and not much more. Or a bunch of cloak and dagger crap.

Thanks, that's a good, clear working definition at last. And I see that it's exactly what I've done for most of my working life to protect myself from greedy and unscrupulous employers. Their desires have not always been reasonable but I never fancied my chances of winning an open fight with the bosses (the unions I've been in haven't had any teeth since Thatcher's time). Rather than risk my job, I've subtly dragged my feet, pretended not to hear their demands, taken decisions to make my own life easier while knowing full well that it wouldn't be what they wanted, and have hardly ever shown the faintest sign of anger. I don't feel guilty about it at all, because I feel they deserve it for hiring me on one set of terms and then moving the goalposts once I'm signed up.....they will do anything they can get away with to get more for less, so will I. I suspect that any workplace in which people are being shafted with long hours, low pay, poor working conditions, etc., is likely to be a breeding ground for this kind of behaviour. There's simply no other way they can fight back. Passive resistance, as they called it in Gandhi's time, can be a force for good, though naturally it depends on your opinion on the behaviour of the ruling elite.

I also suspect that in the days when most women were of second-class status, ill-treated wives would have little choice but to resort to this sneaky kind of behaviour, just to survive. They couldn't normally just leave - they often had no money of their own and the sanctity of marriage was more of an issue in those days.

As a child, my mother would not tolerate any kind of aggression or challenge from me, which probably explains why I have so much trouble expressing my anger as an adult, and identifies me as a prime suspect for PA behaviour in relationships. Especially as one partner I was stuck with had a nasty habit of running away and (usually) sleeping with other men whenever I tried to express any anger......I vividly recall one occasion when she did that......she'd been singing and yelling raucously and I had the nerve to tell her to shut up. She always maintained that my anger was simply so scary that it made her run away like that. I suppose that was her version of PA, and it may have rubbed off onto me (I have little problem in fighting fire with fire and taking an eye for an eye when somebody really makes me angry) - certainly I was doing that to her when I ended the relationship, agreeing to be there for her (she was in a bad state and needed somebody to talk to) and then forgetting to turn up, looking for all the world like a serene, caring guy, but quietly stitching her up.

But those were extreme circumstances. Another partner was almost certainly "playing games" with me, and after repeated attempts to get her to own her behaviour, I began to hit back like that sometimes. But after that relationship I thought a lot about all the harm we'd done to each other, and vowed that I'd have a wholesome relationship with somebody one day in which there would be no hate games but just pure, simple decency.

Since then, I've seen some very PA-like behaviour from some of the women I've had relationships with........I went to see one lady for the first time, and had to leave at a set time so I could check up on a couple I knew who'd had a fight (I'd been instrumental in calming them down and had promised to look in on them the following day). I told my lady friend this, but as the time approached and I said I'd best go soon, she cooed "don't go yet" (I later realised she'd wanted me to have sex with her).....but I didn't want to let my friends down, so I gently said no and left. We agreed to meet again soon, and that she'd call me (she had no phone and lived some distance away, so the only quick way to communicate was for her to phone me from a call box) but I didn't hear from her for weeks, which caused me a lot of misery, and when she finally did get in touch, she said that she'd felt invaded and scared of getting in too deep with me. I'll never know for sure, but I always felt she'd just tried to punish me for not consummating the relationship quickly enough (in spite of her lip-service to my idea that we should wait till we knew each other better). One thing I never do with women is invade them - and given that I ended our evening in spite of her request to stay, how could she feel invaded? Or is this just the popular "hard-to-get" game that many women to do see if the guy's really interested? Or is that game just a common (and arguably necessary and socially acceptable) form of PA?

It's entirely possible that I've done PA with some partners. But being perfectly aware of it when I do it in the workplace, I suspect I've not done it unless the relationship has turned so bad that I see the lady as my enemy - of course it would have solved nothing and I should have had the guts to demand reform or leave, but I've always tried very hard to sort things out the honest way, when they've first gone wrong, and frankly I can't remember it ever doing a scrap of good. And I mentioned to my wife that I was interested in the term, and she just changed the subject even though I'd not accused her of doing PA and still haven't looked at her behaviour in that way. Seems my women can rarely stand to look at themselves as others see them.