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Logical Aspies

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ike
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28 Dec 2008, 10:02 pm

Shiggily wrote:
I don't think it is the only reason for the stereotype. I just think that there are more contributions to the stereotype than Aspies actually being more logical.


Ahh, well, yes I agree that there are several additional contributors. :)


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Shiggily
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28 Dec 2008, 10:10 pm

ike wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
I don't think it is the only reason for the stereotype. I just think that there are more contributions to the stereotype than Aspies actually being more logical.


Ahh, well, yes I agree that there are several additional contributors. :)


That is why I think that Aspies appear more logical without actually being more logical. I think this is attributed to the fact that they are uncertain in social situations so they must reason through it, that they do not express their emotions in the same way so they appear unemotional, that they can be detached from a situation, that they like patterns and are faster at recognizing patterns oriented questions, that they are often able to focus better, may have high IQs or better memories, and gravitate towards logic-based fields of study where they learn logical thinking.

I think all those might combine to make Aspies appear more logical by nature, when in fact much of it is circumstantial, environmental, or attributed to other underlying causes.



marshall
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28 Dec 2008, 11:01 pm

On the whole people here don’t seem anymore logical than the general population. What I see is that people here tend to think rather independently. Everyone seems to have their own unique style of writing and reasoning.



Dantac
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29 Dec 2008, 12:05 am

I think its because posting here involves a delay in which you can actually think and edit what you're saying.

In person the only thing that might come out of your mouth is cold logic.



starvingartist
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29 Dec 2008, 12:11 am

Shiggily wrote:
I don't mean this to be an insult or derogatory. But it really doesn't seem that Aspies are all that more logical and less emotional than NTs. I mean I have been watching to see if the statement that Aspies are more logical is true and it doesn't seem to be accurate. Now granted a select few are more logical and less emotional. But most seem to be just as emotional as NTs and express quite a few of those emotions in similar ways. However it appears that some if not a majority of the emotions are expressed differently in Aspies (some to majority dependent on the individual Aspie) than NTs. So it is not a differing quantity of emotions, but a different expression. And watching the interactions on here compared to other NT forums I have been a member of, and it seems that the statement of "Aspies are more logical than NTs" is not a truthful assertion.

So I am not sure where these two statements actually come from, or why they are accepted as truthful, when objectively and observationally... they are not.


where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.



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29 Dec 2008, 12:25 am

starvingartist wrote:
where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.


I agree they aren't mutually exclusive. I’d give Albert Einstein as an example. Sure, he used logic to develop his theories but I don’t think logic is what truly inspired him. It was emotion which he often described as a spiritual experience, a sense of awe in revealing the mysterious laws of nature.



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29 Dec 2008, 12:29 am

I think people with AS are logical about different things. So we may try to use logic to decode social situations, unlike NTs, but become quite illogical when it comes to following our routines. So I think it may be the case that people with AS are equally logical as NTs, but the logic is focussed differently.



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29 Dec 2008, 12:57 am

i deduce things a lot. i nut things out - especially concerning human nature.
I also have my own internal logic which seems extremely sensible to me. Others may beg to differ, but they are infuriatingly illogical, if you ask me.



Shiggily
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29 Dec 2008, 3:30 am

Dantac wrote:
I think its because posting here involves a delay in which you can actually think and edit what you're saying.

In person the only thing that might come out of your mouth is cold logic.


that is a definite possibility.

I do on occasion have my husband edit my posts (for classes) to make sure I am not being tactless.



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29 Dec 2008, 3:38 am

starvingartist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
I don't mean this to be an insult or derogatory. But it really doesn't seem that Aspies are all that more logical and less emotional than NTs. I mean I have been watching to see if the statement that Aspies are more logical is true and it doesn't seem to be accurate. Now granted a select few are more logical and less emotional. But most seem to be just as emotional as NTs and express quite a few of those emotions in similar ways. However it appears that some if not a majority of the emotions are expressed differently in Aspies (some to majority dependent on the individual Aspie) than NTs. So it is not a differing quantity of emotions, but a different expression. And watching the interactions on here compared to other NT forums I have been a member of, and it seems that the statement of "Aspies are more logical than NTs" is not a truthful assertion.

So I am not sure where these two statements actually come from, or why they are accepted as truthful, when objectively and observationally... they are not.


where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.


you can be both but you cannot reason effectively with both. Either your decisions are made by logic or influenced by emotion.

The definition of logic is "any logical system that abstracts the form of statements away from their content in order to establish abstract criteria of consistency and validity"

the definition of emotion is "complex and usually strong subjective human response that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort"

you can have emotions and you can have logic, though they exist rather separately and do not co-mingle. When you are thinking, the concept of emotions can be weighed and considered during a logical process, but to allow your emotions to think for you induces subjectivity that is rejected in logic.

so within the context of reasoning, they are in fact relatively mutually exclusive.



Shiggily
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29 Dec 2008, 3:40 am

marshall wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.


I agree they aren't mutually exclusive. I’d give Albert Einstein as an example. Sure, he used logic to develop his theories but I don’t think logic is what truly inspired him. It was emotion which he often described as a spiritual experience, a sense of awe in revealing the mysterious laws of nature.


it seems as he thought logically and felt emotionally, compartmentalizing areas into places where they would be most useful. The average person thinks and feels emotionally and does not appear able to compartmentalize their emotions effectively.



ike
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29 Dec 2008, 2:33 pm

Shiggily wrote:
Dantac wrote:
I think its because posting here involves a delay in which you can actually think and edit what you're saying.

In person the only thing that might come out of your mouth is cold logic.


that is a definite possibility.

I do on occasion have my husband edit my posts (for classes) to make sure I am not being tactless.


I've asked Tiffany to read and comment on things before sending them too. Usually for work rather than a class.


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ike
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29 Dec 2008, 2:44 pm

Shiggily wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.


you can be both but you cannot reason effectively with both. Either your decisions are made by logic or influenced by emotion.


Actually there's a neurologist who studied the effects of damage to the part of the brain associated with emotion and claimed this isn't true. According to his research, strength of emotion was a necessary ingredient in rational thinking, because the people he studied lost some of their rational abilities when their brains were damaged. I think that might be because either they no longer cared about the outcome, or it might have been a self-fulfilling prophecy because after the accident they simply assumed that their brains wouldn't work as well anymore. His claim is that emotion and reason are inherently interdependent. It's hard to say. But ... there is at least some evidence to suggest that the stoicists notion that emotion is the enemy of reason may not be an accurate view.

The book was titled Descartes' Error.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes%27_Error

I haven't read the book though.


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29 Dec 2008, 5:02 pm

Shiggily wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
I don't mean this to be an insult or derogatory. But it really doesn't seem that Aspies are all that more logical and less emotional than NTs. I mean I have been watching to see if the statement that Aspies are more logical is true and it doesn't seem to be accurate. Now granted a select few are more logical and less emotional. But most seem to be just as emotional as NTs and express quite a few of those emotions in similar ways. However it appears that some if not a majority of the emotions are expressed differently in Aspies (some to majority dependent on the individual Aspie) than NTs. So it is not a differing quantity of emotions, but a different expression. And watching the interactions on here compared to other NT forums I have been a member of, and it seems that the statement of "Aspies are more logical than NTs" is not a truthful assertion.

So I am not sure where these two statements actually come from, or why they are accepted as truthful, when objectively and observationally... they are not.


where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.


you can be both but you cannot reason effectively with both. Either your decisions are made by logic or influenced by emotion.

The definition of logic is "any logical system that abstracts the form of statements away from their content in order to establish abstract criteria of consistency and validity"

the definition of emotion is "complex and usually strong subjective human response that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort"

you can have emotions and you can have logic, though they exist rather separately and do not co-mingle. When you are thinking, the concept of emotions can be weighed and considered during a logical process, but to allow your emotions to think for you induces subjectivity that is rejected in logic.

so within the context of reasoning, they are in fact relatively mutually exclusive.


but you are presenting emotion as if it were inferior to logic....this is a bias. look at firefighters as an example. when you are standing in the street looking at a burning building, all of your logic is telling you the LAST THING you should do is run into that building....but that is their job. and they do it because they FEEL that helping other people is more important than risking their own lives. they MUST use their emotion to overrun their logic so they can perform their jobs, and thank god they do. emotion is ESSENTIAL for altruism, and altruism is the highest form of logic if you ask me.

so in fact they are not mutually exclusive. one must use both to properly deduce what actions must be taken, what choices must be made in life. BOTH are essential for a truly well-rounded perspective, and any choice that is not based on a well-rounded perspective is bound to be troublesome.



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29 Dec 2008, 7:07 pm

starvingartist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Shiggily wrote:
I don't mean this to be an insult or derogatory. But it really doesn't seem that Aspies are all that more logical and less emotional than NTs. I mean I have been watching to see if the statement that Aspies are more logical is true and it doesn't seem to be accurate. Now granted a select few are more logical and less emotional. But most seem to be just as emotional as NTs and express quite a few of those emotions in similar ways. However it appears that some if not a majority of the emotions are expressed differently in Aspies (some to majority dependent on the individual Aspie) than NTs. So it is not a differing quantity of emotions, but a different expression. And watching the interactions on here compared to other NT forums I have been a member of, and it seems that the statement of "Aspies are more logical than NTs" is not a truthful assertion.

So I am not sure where these two statements actually come from, or why they are accepted as truthful, when objectively and observationally... they are not.


where does it say that one cannot be both very logical and very emotional at the same time? are these two things/states really mutually exclusive? i beg to differ.


you can be both but you cannot reason effectively with both. Either your decisions are made by logic or influenced by emotion.

The definition of logic is "any logical system that abstracts the form of statements away from their content in order to establish abstract criteria of consistency and validity"

the definition of emotion is "complex and usually strong subjective human response that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort"

you can have emotions and you can have logic, though they exist rather separately and do not co-mingle. When you are thinking, the concept of emotions can be weighed and considered during a logical process, but to allow your emotions to think for you induces subjectivity that is rejected in logic.

so within the context of reasoning, they are in fact relatively mutually exclusive.


but you are presenting emotion as if it were inferior to logic....this is a bias. look at firefighters as an example. when you are standing in the street looking at a burning building, all of your logic is telling you the LAST THING you should do is run into that building....but that is their job. and they do it because they FEEL that helping other people is more important than risking their own lives. they MUST use their emotion to overrun their logic so they can perform their jobs, and thank god they do. emotion is ESSENTIAL for altruism, and altruism is the highest form of logic if you ask me.

so in fact they are not mutually exclusive. one must use both to properly deduce what actions must be taken, what choices must be made in life. BOTH are essential for a truly well-rounded perspective, and any choice that is not based on a well-rounded perspective is bound to be troublesome.


I am not presenting one as inferior. I am saying they each have their place and to use one for the purposes of another is not good. Many firemen use logic instead of emotion, firemen must put aside emotion (self-preservation) and use logic (preservation of others because it is their job) to run into a burning building. Some use emotion.

Why do you think doctor's can't practice on people they know (with the exception of perhaps family/general practice). Cops can't investigate people they know. Judges can't hear cases of people they know. Because people are unable to separate their emotions when the time in appropriate.


Now, using logic in the place of emotion is not desirable either. People who are unable to compartmentalize their logic and use their emotions come across as disingenuous.



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29 Dec 2008, 7:11 pm

I think perhaps the problem is that, like most other things, logic can be relative. What is extremely logical for one person may not be logical to the next.

*shrug*