what's the difference between INTJ and AS?

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ditto

I'm an INFP...but borderline P-J. I still don't like schedules, but they are necessary. lol

Well, I don't buck the possible correlation. I'm INTJ. Thanks for warning me about e-Harmony.

The difference is one is a Jungian based Personality Model Archetype based on NT oriented studies and the other is a primarily Freudian but modernized and retrofitted clinical diagnosis of a Behavioral Disorder based on the studies of Kanner, Miller, and Asperger.

There has been talk in other threads currently active about NT not being a "real thing", and I haven't really gotten to formulating a response to that and this seems like a good time to do so. NT is a real thing in the sense that it is the NOS diagnosis of a larger scale. There are disordered individuals with dysfunction considered clinically significant to the disruption of human function, and there is everybody else that just has normal dysfunctions. It's not NT-AS, it is NT-ND. It is a misnomer to call it the "autistic spectrum" it is more accurately the "Autistic Range of the NT-ND axis within the Psychological Profile Spectrum" but who wants to say all that? I propose we adopt the term Autistic Range for our uses, AR. This eliminates the confusion over AS meaning Asperger's Syndrome as well.

Schizophrenia is not Neurologically Typical, Tinnitus is Neurologically Typical. They both experience clinically significant sensory hallucination. Everybody on the planet experiences clinically insignificant sensory hallucination. They induce it every time they recall a memory. The difference is in the underlying cause of the two disorders and the ways in which they express themselves. Take special note of the language of different disorders. One who has schizophrenia can be said to be a Schizophrenic, but one who has Tinnitus is not a Tinnitic individual, they are a Neurologicaly Typical individual with a Tinnitic Disorder.

Amongst NT populations the MBTI is a pretty strongly supported tool as long as you don't try and go beyond the use for which it is intended. Amongst the Neurodiverse minority of humanity it weakens in usability. MBTI is based on apparent behaviors, the external you, the commonality of the Masks you Wear that is the window to the True Self. Jung believed in the Collective Unconscious. The Apparent Self is a manifestation of the True Self which is in turn a manifestation of the All. The Sixteen MBTI Types are the Sixteen Major Masks of Modern Society based on the four Jungian Personality Scales.

To get AR and MBTI to play along, you must adjust for the variable of the NT-ND spectrum. The front end energy expenditure required for an ND individual to participate in an NT dominant society corrupts the E-I scale. When they have to use active energy wrangling your internal minds ability to communicate to participate in most avenues of external interaction, an AR Jungian E-type will externalize as an I-type to people expecting an NT style E-type.

On the S-N scale, it is based on a NT model of sensory perception that does not mesh will with the sensory perception of many Spectrum individuals. It is hard to externalize as S when letting yourself be your natural S tends to induce seizures or migraines or panic attacks. When you sense things beyond the normal human range, normal humans will see it as intuition. I recently read a study which found Autistic spectrum individuals had Visual Acuity Ratings between two and three times the level of human average. The baseline where the spectrum individuals they tested started was twice the acuity of the general population average and peaked at a bit over three times the acuity. I'll bet many of you reading this can hear the 50/60hz cycle of a tv monitor that the general population thinks you are schizophrenic or tinnitic for claiming to hear (that buzz when a classic tube tv is turned on but has no signal, not to be confused with static).

Very informative, Crassus. Thank you.

Yes, I have often wondered about the slanted E-I scale when applied to those with AS. My thought it that there are those with AS who would otherwise tend more towards extraversion but their inabilities to socialize force them into introversion. That and for me, most of the questions on these MBTI tests are very context sensitive, so it just depends on my current mood how I answer them. Therefore I can get wildly different results each time I take them.

Seeing how I'm autistic and ESFP, the differences between AS and that INTJ type must be immense. Or else I'd be INTJ for my autism wouldn't I.

I agree...many times I think my introversion is a learned behavior as opposed to a personality preference. But, my results on the MBTI tend to remain the same, and I'm talking about 10 years of taking it. The only time the results are different are when I try to take it on the internet. But, if I take it at a college, university, or workforce career center of some sort, it always comes out INTP (though I was mid range of the P and J when I was 20, and as I grew, the scale kept going over more P).

I also agree with Crassus that my N tends to be an overstimulated S. An example to describe what I'm trying to say better... it's like once I sat at a bar and some ugly guy kept hitting on me. He just wouldn't leave me alone. Being single, he was really messing up my game to hang out with someone good looking. At some point, he started talking about how his girlfriend just dumped him and kicked him out and he hates her so much. Between that and the fact he was really drunk, I just figured he was still in love and hurt, and I told him that (and of course told him to leave the bar immediately to go find her and show her his endless devotion). He swore I was psychic when really I was just a little more observant than the next gal.

Me too. Though the FP part is very slight- I sometimes test out TJ and other times test out FP.

The way I put it- Asperger's makes me a strong IN. The FP is my personality when I'm hyperactive or manic, the TJ is my personality when I slow down, think things through, and am more depressive.

My best ideas come when I'm INFP. My best execution of those ideas come when I'm INTJ.

I have an HFA co-worker who is certainly an extrovert, an ESTP I'm pretty sure.

im a straightdown to the point enfp mostr of things i do my gfuts\ told me i put i put and most of the time i about %90 im right no facts no juding no sendsinsin just did on a whim.

I am equally INTJ and ISTJ on the tests , we worked with this extensively in college yesterday. However I do not have the skills to implement my need for organization and my math skills do not add up either maybe I am not an aspie after all I could be an INTJ with NLD (non verbal learning disorder). I have restricted interests but they cycle as soon as my curiosity is satisfied or they just stay in my head and haunt me while I am researching other things.

The primary issue here is that Myers Briggs is not a questionaire, it's not "answer some questions and get a type" and more than taking a quiz can diagnose you as Aspie. In fact Myers Briggs is even more difficault to get an accurate "reading" of becuase of the differences in how you act vs how you think and how you apply that on different days, to different situations whilst in different moods.

Your quiz responce will change depending on your mood.

Hardly anyone, ever, changes their Type and when this does happen it's over years, not days.

The fact you get a different answer to the quiz does not show an issue or weakness with MB, it shows the poor results you get from trying to use a quiz to evaluate.

People are trained to give Myers Briggs training quite extensively and to do so well involves working with the person to inderstand the purpose of the whole evaluation, the meaning behind Type and working with that person to get the relevent information out of them whilst filtering out the bad info, the false mask, the learnt behaviour, the social requirements and everything else.

We're all pretty messed up people, Aspies and NT's, acting a certain way in each situation for a whole bunch of reasons. MBTI must cut through all of that to find your true natural self and only a qualified, trained and skilled person can help you achieve that.

Case in point, i know my type through hours of discussion and evaluation (over several years) and i still can't get the quiz to give me that exact responce.

I'm seem to be an ISTP.

I'm going to suggest that there are some differences.

I'm INTJ, but I've taken the the AS test and received the average score for an NT person. Because I spent time in foster care as a kid and teen I've had psych evals as late as my teen years, and I was never diagnosed with AS (or anything else). Not an expert though on what kind of test is needed to catch it.

I've been researching AS because I recenly met someone who has it, and I think there are a few differences.

1) I gather that AS's social difficulties are caused by an inability to process social information. This doesn't seem to be the case with INTJs, or at least not to the same extent as AS people.

2) At least from my observations of my own behavior, I don't believe I follow routines, I don't have obsessions, and I don't notice details. The AS guy I know notices things that most people do not. He'll also get a bit obsessive about details, while I feel like I don't generally care about details so much.

3) I don't think INTJ's interests are as narrowly focused as an AS person's may be. I love to learn new information and will spend a decent amount of time doing this most days provided there's time. However, I don't have one or two narrow fields that I limit this to. I like learning a lot of different kinds of things that I consider useful. The AS person told me his focus is on sports statistics and always has been. Also, I've read about AS people becoming focused on parts of things rather than the whole. This definitely doesn't apply to me and I don't think it applies to INTJs in general.

I tend to agree. I am INTJ but I don't think it's synonymous with AS....and I share your skepticism about it being pseudoscience/woo-woo anyway.

~Kate

this is something i've been wondering for awhile

i figured out i was INTJ after reading Gifts Differing back in the 80's

i started hearing on the internet about AS some ten or twelve years ago & it also seemed to fit--for example i scored more than 60% on one quiz i remember taking--but besides that, my sense of myself, my perceptions & unsociability.

colors, sounds, textures: just seem to mean more to me, than others when i try to describe it to them.

i've become relatively integrated into society (despite some key stubbornnesses), so i don't feel that i've met with extraordinary obstacles (perhaps because of my useful intelligence--people will forgive your eccentricities when you're very smart), yet i remain deeply alienated from both the major currents of humanity, & from its merest details. i would have it otherwise.

i am here to learn, however, not to state too summarily my judgment on this important topic.

m.