AS Connected to Low Cortisol Levels

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I have panic disorder - My cortisol levels are high most of the time.

Meditation, learning how to breathe through reactions, cognitive therapies all seem to work for me. In terms of medications, my best suggestions after some consideration would be short-term, light-dose therapy with one of the early sedatives, or possibly a beta-blocker (caution - these medications affect heart function and should -not- be prescribed lightly) to stem the physiological responses that would contribute to over-stimulation and overproduction. Again, I am merely looking at the scenario and developing ideas - I am not a doctor or formally trained in pharmacology.


M.

i googled beta-blockers. interesting--if i understand correctly--they block the production(?) of epinephrine.

have you talked to people who have had them prescribed? do they seem to report less anxiety/fight-or-flight overall?

thirdly: is it possible to have a physician prescribe them for anything other than abnormal heart rhythm?

last: do you know anything about DHEA (over-the-counter)? i realize many of its stated claims are controversial, but is it possible it can regulate the adrenal system? apparently it has an antagonistic effect to cortisol. it's the pre-cursor to(?) sorry--can't remember. was wondering about your thoughts on this.


truly last: do you think it's possible to maintain maintain hyperfocus without going into some form of (slight) agitation? (sleep difficulties, etc.) or do you think it may be a trade-off?

Have had them prescribed; do not presently take due to possible interactions with other medications. There was noticeably less 'physical panic' but also had to watch my blood pressure closely and energy levels were 'off'.

No experience with DHEA. I do not believe that there is any product, OTC or otherwise, that will regulate the adrenal system. There are supplements that will help keep it running better, and ways to take care of your body that will also help.

I get agitated when my focus is broken; I think the ability to hyperfocus does lead to a natural tendency for the mind to be so overdeveloped in that fashion that it affects one's ability to 'let go' and relax into sleep, in addition to other issues.


M.

oh--social anxiety. this is a (distinct) possibility. may be able to get px. for it then.

monitoring blood pressure: does this mean (in general) that you must worry about bp sinking too low? (or is it one of those "logically quirky" things in which it's actually raised?)

less "physical panic"--this would be good.

energy levels 'off'---low energy?

re: supplements for adrenal support---do you have any suggestions?

re: hyperfocus. dearly love the hyperfocus--or some applications of it, anyway. will have to live with the trade-off.

(thank you!)

Yes, had to make sure my blood pressure did not sink too far; as some on the spectrum also experience low blood pressure, this is a point of concern when using such a medication. I had to test in the morning, after taking it, and again a few hours later. Did not have as much energy, and there can be some side effects - make sure you read up on them prior to starting therapy on a beta blocker. Will have to look up the adrenal supplements and get back to you; this is an area my wife-to-be knows much more than I do.


M.

Shiiit, if long term cortisol exposure causes brain damage to the part of the brain that controls memory, I wonder if people who suffer from that are more prone to smoking marijuana. Could this misleadingly lead to studies reaching the conclusion that marijuana causes brain damage to the part that controls memory?

A little random, but it's definitely plausible.

ah--bing! happiness!

it's not the cortisol that's the culprit--it's the epinephrine/adrenaline. they rise and fall independently of one another, except for the morning rise of both overall (which ASD's don't generally have.) so that oh-lovely-low-cortisol level remains throughout the day, but the adrenaline pumps away....making everyone in the house incredibly nervous, blah!

oh i spit on the adrenaline! i spit, i tell you, spit!

cortisol levels and adrenaline levels rise and fall independently of one another (aside for the usual am increase of both seen in those off-the-spectrum.)

another thought---not only are adrenaline levels often high, but HUGE fluctuations in us would explain a few thing (far more fluctuation than seen in those off-the-spectrum--fluctuating to extremes, perhaps rapidly.) this might explain the prevalence of both seizures and high anxiety/fight-or-flight.

(huge fluctuations acting as a trigger to seizures--perhaps also prolonging them---not a physiological cause, as such.)

well--adrenaline and cortisol don't rise and fall quite independently of one another. there tends to be two curves: the cortisol low and slow, the one for adrenaline higher and quicker. what i'm wondering is if the peaks and lows of the adrenaline curve would tend to be much more extreme in those on the spectrum.


some research being done now in stimulating the vagus nerve to regulate seizures--imagine it also has the effect of easing anxiety.

apparently there is a link between vagus nerve and managing adrenaline/norepinephrine levels.

htttp://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/vagus.html

will look more into stimulation of vagus nerve re: management of seizures, etc.

realize no one else is interested in this. i'll just keep posting. why? because i'm autistic

another (autistic) post re: vagus nerve stimulation. can be used to manage adrenaline output while keeping overall cortisol levels low.

already being used in treatment for seizures/epilepsy:


http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/about/treatment/vns/


still experimental, but may also be used to manage anxiety and/or general fight-or-flight:


htttp:///www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=50879

I'm still reading; just still compiling, nothing new to contribute - please continue!


M.

i do need to make sure my information on this is current. just discovered this has already been in use for depression for some time--generally resistant depression; doesn't respond well to other treatments.

anecdotally (youtube comments, lol) this hasn't proven entirely successful. i haven't looked into statistics yet.

odd to me that it would be already in use for the tx of depression, but not yet being used for anxiety---since vagus nerve seems to be a definite link to regulating the adrenals--esp. in re: to epinephrine/adrenaline output. so will have to look into it more carefully. it may be that my info isn't as current as i'd like. will check more; see if it may now be in use for such a thing.

also need to check into just how effective it is at controlling seizures. my impression was that it was pretty reliable--but need to check more sources.

i will do this. am basically into hyperfocus on this topic; do, however, take some breaks.

thought things were more or less falling into place, but now doubling back. now wondering if it is possible to have such extreme fluctuations in adrenaline levels over time with cortisol levels remaining low (in AS: lack of twofold a.m. increases, levels steadily decreasing throughout day.). this doesn't seem likely. everything does seem to be pointing to regulation problems, though, rather than with overall measurable levels. thinking especially in terms of adrenaline.

another thing nagging at the back of my mind is that long-term adrenal fatigue will also lower cortisol levels (bing.)

just answered one of my own questions possibly. if that's the case--adrenaline still rising and falling to extreme levels eventually driving down cortisol levels overall---then it is possible to have very extreme fluctuations in adrenaline while cortisol fluctuations remain low and slow. (the two curves.) cortisol levels wouldn't necessarily have to rise with high adrenaline levels.

so it still comes back to regulating adrenaline--at least in my book.

thinking about hypoglycemia--how often it's seen on the spectrum. it is related to low cortisol levels overall---but also wondering if it's more related to adrenal fatigue. if related to adrenal fatigue, then i'm thinking would generally see later onset.

for some reason, it makes more intuitive sense to me that it would be related to long-term adrenal fatigue (further depleting cortisol levels overall.) just thinking of AS/ASD stress levels overall. it occurs to me--even if hypoglycemia develops more often in early childhood (in those on the spectrum), most of us have already seen more than our fair share of life stressors.

maybe it's just dogma on my part: but i don't think there's a genetic link between hypoglycemia and ASD. not finding much material on this though.

re: vagus nerve stimulation. still pretty sketchy overall. seems very effective at managing seizures; very mixed results with depression (though largely used for treatment-resistant depression--so who knows what its effectiveness would be like overall?) not yet approved for use in managing anxiety.

also a very invasive procedure: requires surgery. also an implant.

still interested in finding out more about the vagus nerve overall.

hoping the technology re: vagus nerve stimulation improves enough to make it: A) less invasive, and B) more effective and/or practical for managing anxiety, panic attacks and general fight-or-flight.

(it is part of the parasympathetic NS. still thinking that's overall where i want to be looking.)

ramble. ramble. obsess. obsess.

to makanuranososhi: re message. (again--thanks. i had no idea this was proving useful to someone.)

re: measurement. really wish someone were working on a way to take sustained measurements over time--a map of what's going on--rather than a discrete measurement here and there.

wonder if there's any way to contact a team of medical technology auties and see if it strikes anyone as fascinating.

not sure if i'm really joking or not. i'd really love to see something like that.

Last edited by exhausted on 09 Aug 2009, 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

okay--this may seem a little off-the-beam, but---thinking now of acupuncture. (studied it for three years; found it wasn't really an area of fascination. still believe it can have some benefits, if more limited than often presented.)

vagus nerve descends into the stomach. thought of stomach meridian in terms of points (no mystery.) apparently there are a set of specific points used to "treat" things that might be associated with the vagus nerve; what it regulates, etc. (seizures for one; my guess it would be extremely helpful with adrenal issues overall, since--well, that's what it regulates.)

(also an auricular point--but my training didn't directly associate auricular points with nerves. this was considered too Western; traditionalists teach strictly in the old way.) edit: whoops. that wasn't very clear. end: thus, i have no idea which auricular point they're talking about: can give no info on it. no diagram on the below site.)

here's the info i pulled up on points themselves:

http://www.yinyanghouse.com/forum/vagus ... nd-seizure

in addition, i read not too long ago some western-style medical studies re: acupuncture. apparently mild electrical stimulation applied to points is much more effective than needles. will try to pull up this info also and post.

may need to do some shopping for an acupuncturist who's willing to do this. many traditionalists would be mildly offended by having dx and points pre-chosen by the client--would want to do full TCM diagnosis first. but others may well be willing to do this.

again: no comments on effectiveness. it's just an idea.

Last edited by exhausted on 09 Aug 2009, 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.