Do you think that virginia Tech killer Cho Seu was an Aspie?

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0_equals_true
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24 Apr 2007, 2:16 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

NeantHumain wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

He was no narcissist. narcissist is probably one of the rarest personality disorders.

LoL! You've never driven on the highway during rush hour or worked as a clerk at a shopping center. The estimate of 1% of the population having narcissistic personality disorder is an arbitrary cut-off, but subclinical narcissistic behavior and attitudes at least are far from uncommon.

Cho definitely had the clinical sign of grandiosity, but grandiosity can be found in paranoid personality disorder, paranoid schizophrenia, psychopathy, manic episodes, and some organic and substance-induced psychiatric impairments as well as in narcissistic personality disorder. His videos were also heavily narcissistic as well as paranoid. I still lean towards paranoid personality disorder over narcissistic personality disorder because that disorder includes the grandiosity as well as the evident social withdrawal, the focus on slights and vengeance, and basically the more disordered personality structure.

But you can say that anything is sub clinical. A diagnosis is clinical judgment. Nobody is actually anything. There is a sliding scale for everything. Diagnosis is there to be useful. The problem in rush hour and at the checkout is wider part of human nature. Labelling vast amount of people narcissistic serves no purpose.

Well, the self-centered jerk might not be a big enough jerk to qualify for a personality disorder diagnosis, or he or she might otherwise fall through the diagnostic cracks (not the least being that the typical jerk/@ssh*le/b**ch does not seek psychotherapy or other treatment, and their personality isn't highly treatable regardless).

Narcissistic personality disorder, as defined in the DSM-IV-TR, focuses on the exhibitionistic kind of narcissist, the one who craves people's adoration and praise. What about a person who is self-centered, exploitative, but emotionally distant instead of obsequious? That may start to sound like antisocial personality disorder instead but subtract impulsivity, irritability, and a criminal record. Such a person would have an inflexible enough personality to qualify for a personality disorder but would not quite meet the diagnostic criteria for any of them.

A significant percentage of the population is rude and selfish without meeting the formal definition for any specific personality disorder. I'd say perhaps 10-15% of the population could be labeled as subclinical narcissists because their behavior and attitude are that bad.

But you can't just remove parts of the diagnosis that you don't like. What's the point of a diagnosis then? It may not fit the your definition or even the genral use of the word. Don't get hung up on names you can call anything what ever you want. But really you can't diagnose someone who is withdrawn, paraniod and confused as someone who is self imortant, takes advantage of people, and extrovert. They are different things.

NeantHumain
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24 Apr 2007, 4:17 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

In psychodynamic theories, narcissism is a longstanding concept (predating the DSM diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder), and the core of narcissism in theory is an early injury to one's sense of self (call it what you will: self-esteem, ego, etc.). Because they lack internal self-assurance, they look to others essentially to tell them they're okay; this makes them generally extremely good at impression management. However, the so-called hypersensitive narcissist is actually quite shy and introverted. They end up avoiding situations where their abilities or worth are put to the test while internally using grandiose fantasies to maintain emotional stability. Externally, a hypersensitive narcissist quite resembles someone with avoidant personality disorder, but the hypersensitive narcissist has grandiose fantasies whereas the avoidant has very low self-esteem.

Many of the psychiatric disorders in the DSM have histories outside the criterion list, associated features, and description given in there. Another example is antisocial personality disorder, which has a long history under various names aside from in the DSM, and a parallel set of criteria for psychopathy is still in use to this day.

gwynfryn
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24 Apr 2007, 4:26 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

Apatura wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

No definitely not. I really HATE it when they 'He was a loner'. I used to be a loner and i never did that sort of thing. You could say I could be any number of things, even if he did have AS it wouldn't be caused by the AS I don't believe. Serious personality disorders look very similar to thing like SA and AS on the surface but are in fact very different.

So far the only thing that makes me think he may have aspie was that he turned away from people to avoid eye contact-- assuming the person saying that is telling the truth. Lotsof people are"loners," not just aspies.

I'm sure there was huge cultural pressure on him to do well in school. Children of immigrants have huge pressures-- the pressure is like a vice grip to do well in school, be successful, blah blah blah. Apparently he told people he was a business major when he was actually an english major. Maybe his parents didn't even know he wasn't a business major.

Eye contact is a problem with lot of different things. The problem with AS is unique (well for me anyway). It is not about people think about me or any kind of thoughts. It is/was physically difficult to look in the eyes. I think there is a term for it. Anyway he sound like he fits (given the little data) a sociopath.

Interestingly Hitler lied about going to art school but he didn't get in. He used to pretend to his family he was going when he was bum about town

Why is eye contact an issue?

0_equals_true
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24 Apr 2007, 5:21 pm

NeantHumain wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

We were talking about NPD and I would disagree that cho was predominantly a narcissist. I goes back to sliding scale.

0_equals_true
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24 Apr 2007, 5:22 pm

gwynfryn wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

Apatura wrote:

0_equals_true wrote:

Why is eye contact an issue?

AS can have eye contact problems. There are eye contact problem associated with various conditions.

NeantHumain
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24 Apr 2007, 9:45 pm

0_equals_true wrote:

We were talking about NPD and I would disagree that cho was predominantly a narcissist. I goes back to sliding scale.

I also agree that Cho probably did not have narcissistic personality disorder. I have been suggesting paranoid personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, and perhaps sadistic personality disorder. He's also been diagnosed with depression previously.

I am just saying overtly narcissistic behavior and attitudes are far more prevalent than the 1% statistic in the DSM-IV-TR for NPD suggests. I remember reading an article saying that college students' self-report narcissism has risen in the past decade (using the narcissistic personality inventory, a self-report questionnaire commonly used to assess traits of narcissistic personality disorder for research and diagnosis). Search Google or Digg if you want the article.

SteveK
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24 Apr 2007, 9:52 pm

O reilly had a body language "expert" on his show. SHE didn't notice anything unusual. Regarding the lack of anger, etc???? I forgot about something and ****SO**** *****DID***** ******YOU******! He was **********VERY********* angry! The problem was he was SO angry and SO low class and said SO much that almost all was edited or not shown, because of cussing, etc....

BTW the body language "expert" said he looked angry and at one point looked VERY angry.

Steve

janicka
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24 Apr 2007, 10:37 pm

Speaking of angry and narcissistic, what did the body language "expert" have to say about Bill O'Reilly? :roll:

MsTriste
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24 Apr 2007, 10:43 pm

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SteveK
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25 Apr 2007, 5:23 am

janicka wrote:

Speaking of angry and narcissistic, what did the body language "expert" have to say about Bill O'Reilly? :roll:

Funny! I don't know if I ever watched when she reviewed him.

Steve

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25 Apr 2007, 9:34 am

SteveK wrote:

BTW the body language "expert" said he looked angry and at one point looked VERY angry.

I didn't see that, but I noticed Cho's nostrils flaring in those tapes. Because I usually focus on people's mouths when they talk, I see nostril flaring when someone is angry. Cho had many instances of flaring nostrils.

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tyb
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25 Apr 2007, 4:24 pm

Of course he was an aspie. He was very introvert.

SteveK
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25 Apr 2007, 6:44 pm

OK, I HAVE to say it! Some of you have VERY low opinions of yourself, and such a simple way of diagnosing AS. Why not say EVERYONE has AS.

Steve

NeantHumain
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25 Apr 2007, 10:25 pm

SteveK wrote:

OK, I HAVE to say it! Some of you have VERY low opinions of yourself, and such a simple way of diagnosing AS. Why not say EVERYONE has AS.

Steve

Given any sufficiently large group of people selected for any trait (e.g., religious belief, height, alma mater, psychiatric diagnosis) you will always find someone who people might describe as bad unless, of course, you select that group on the criterion of being an outstandingly good person.

If you meet enough people with Asperger's syndrome, inevitably you'll meet someone you don't get along with, disagree with, or are revolted by. Aspies can be introverted, extraverted, trusting, paranoid, docile, angry, gentle, tactless, traditional, freethinking, and just about anything except not Asperger's (logically).

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25 Apr 2007, 11:04 pm

okay, here is my 2 cents (which we all know is worth nothing!) but here goes. I do not think he was an aspie, for the same reasons lots of others have already stated--although I have not read all 24 pages of replies nor do I have time to. I think he was an evil evil evil person. He saw what everyone else had and was literally consumed by jealousy.

there, take it or leave but be happy with the life God has given you and live out the rest of your days (may they be many) with a joyful heart!

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bizarre
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25 Apr 2007, 11:15 pm

Exactly

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