It's confirmed: I must get undiagnosed: how?

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I honestly have no idea how I define myself. I kind of just don't. I get very upset when things stay the same and feel trapped. I get tired of people, places, and routines super quickly. I need constant change.

Anyway, my doctor, who is very practical, decided that even though expressing the opinion last time that I meet the criteria for BPD not to put it in my diagnostic report since I can apparently get the same services for PTSD/C-PTSD, and she was worried about the stigma. I guess insurance doesn't cover BPD, so she was like, what's the point? I guess I am still diagnosed though, just not in writing. But who cares?

I think it's interesting that I have kind of cycled through identifying with several PD's. NPD, ASPD, and BPD all explain me at certain times. BPD, as the catch-all, could probably work. But, on second thought, I actually appreciate what my doctor did by simply diagnosing C-PTSD and leaving the rest open to be narrowed down in the future. At the moment, I feel ASPD. hahaha

C-PTSD explains everything about me and gets me the help I need but it isn't a constrictive label in the same sense as BPD. And it gets me Schedule A Federal Disability Hiring Preference, as does Asperger's.

If you get tired of things so quick how do you deal with employment?

I have been in and out of school for most of my adult life and had employment the entire time. Just never for more than 1 year in one location. The military was one job, but it involved a lot of moving. I had one job in China for several months and another for 12 months, after which time I returned to the United States to continue my education, during which I have worked two different part-time jobs in my field.

So we'll see when the time comes. If I laid out my timeline, you would see that, as of my age, I have managed to switch jobs frequently without it looking sketchy. I don't know how long I would be able to continue this, however.

My military service looks curtailed and sketchy, so I have to show my Honorable Discharge papers a lot.

It's possible that the PD that fits the best is BPD, but for me it sounds more -when someone cycles through PDs like that- like another underlying disorder and thos behaviours coping mechanisms to deal with it. In your case C-PTSD.
I had in a milder way the same problem when I had my trauma. First I behaved a bit Borderline like, than highly paranoid and than I withdaw in a more schizoid way. I propably didn't have any of these, but those were coping mechanisms for me, because of an underlying trauma.

I think BPD itself is designed to be a condition that involves "cycling through the PD's" or at least the Cluster B's with some elements of Cluster C's as well (AvPD). If I were to "label" myself, though, with something to fully explain "me," I would not choose this one simply because even it has a "typical" type which I do not meet. I am about as close to an archetypal case of C-PTSD as they get, it seems.

I joined a BPD FB group with thousands of members. And it seems a drama-filled place with everyone constantly in "crisis." Not me at all. But, then, there are a few others who are very, very similar to me in multiple ways. One of them had C-PTSD also. Another had, not DID, but Dissociative Disorder--NOS. These things will require some exploring, more for fun and a quest towards self-understanding than anything else, I think.

If I were to visualize my issues, I would do it with a hub and spoke model. The problem with much of this thread--without enough information about the C-PTSD--was focusing on which "spoke" was the strongest--and they all seem pretty strong--while missing the "hub" -- which is C-PTSD. So things that were considered were (many of which may technically be correct as far as the DSM criteria but do not offer a complete picture):

DID
NPD
Passive-Aggressive PD / Newson Syndrome
Alexithymia
Sociopathy/ASPD

Finally, BPD looked a lot like the "hub" but was simply a more limited view of it, which C-PTSD explains better.

The thing is that the disorders are highly overlapping and especially when you have complex problems it is highly possible that one psychiatrist might explain it with one disorders and another psychiatrist with another disorder. Sadly psychiatry is not 100% objective and also the differences between certain disorders are not totally clear.

I just know that in my case I showed some signs out of different PDs and other disorders when I had my trauma, but I belief most of them were trauma specific, because when my trauma disapeared more and more the symptoms also disapeared mostly, what wouldn't have happened if I really would have had all those disorders. PTSD is in it's symptoms very complex and C-PTSD is even more complex, that's why it has it's name.
Until now it is still not totally clear what BPD really is. Some say it's related to Bipolar, others that it's related to PTSD and others say it's more related to ADHD or a totally different disorder. Until this is not totally clear, we can't tell for sure if someone is really diagnosed correctly when he or she is not showing 100% classical symptoms and so far I've heared especially with BPD it is very difficult to be really 100%, because many other disorders can show emotional imbalances, impulsivity and outburts.
That's also why I'm a bit sceptical with all those disorders and symptoms. At the moment it is popular to diagnose many several different disorders in one person, befor that it wasn't and in the future maybe we will realize that all those disorders don't really exist and are just clusters and diagnostic criterias who help to explain certain behaviors and nothing more. Who knows!?

Last edited by Raziel on 15 May 2013, 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

I came across the article below associated with psychopathy, morality, and autism. It was very interested as it suggests that anxiety over acceptance is what drives the moral code among some people on the spectrum, instead of guilt.

There is quite a bit of reference to Temple Grandin who is actually unique as a person on the spectrum as she is identified with brain anomalies in the left hemisphere of her brain that may account for most of her neurological strengths and reciprocal social communication difficulties. It could also account for the limitations in how she experiences emotion; including emotion in language.

I watched a video on Fallon and he talked about being raised in the Catholic Church and being noted as too "goody too shoes" or is it "goody two". I am not sure,; if I use spell checker perhaps it proves I am afraid to make a mistake.

But anyway.

Fallon is fearless, without the expressed ability to experience anxiety, so I am not sure how his moral code developed, per the theory provided above other than by strict algorithm.

In the video he didn't act like a football player, he was unusually feminine with his body language, kind of like Tim Tebow, for a big guy. He was for all practical intents and purposes a stand up comedian as well. A Jack of all Trades, and a chameleon it appears. That is an unusual combination along with the neuroscience and the psychiatry degrees.

Not surprised at all about the psychiatry degree though. I suspect that there are many psychiatrists that fall under the high cognitive empathy and low emotional/affective empathy, otherwise I don't see how they could handle the patient load and severity of issues when people hit the psychiatrist lobby. Anxiety wouldn't work very well in that job. Fallon probably has personal insight in that area as well, in his work with his colleagues, along with his suggestions that surgeons would likely have the same quality, which I have to agree with too, among the surgeons I have met in my life. Dentists as well.

I cannot imagine a person with Aspergers being a surgeon or a dentist, if for no other reason than the motor skills difficulties.

I cannot imagine doing that job.

On the other hand I would have never imagined as the last kid picked on the teams in school I would have ended up as an Athletic Director at a Military Installation, but extreme adversity, results in unusual things, I guess. It would not have happened if my computer skills at the time were not in demand among a whole building of people athletically inclined but not systemizer inclined. Their wives took care of the finances at home too.

I do not have a brain gender at all. My spouse looks super feminine but her brain is more male than mine. I present as very biological male at this point in my life, but was not the case in childhood as I was often mistaken for a female. I suspect my wife is a homosexual brain gender if one had to be chosen in a female body and I am a Lesbian brain gender in a male body if had to be chosen, if that makes since, but neither of us is very much interested in sex.

I thought you might find that interesting as you mentioned FTM. I seem to relate to your brain well, as I cannot pick out a gender with it, either. I sense the same thing with Marshall and Tyrion, which is probably why I kept drifting back to this thread, as I feel comfortable communicating here, as I feel like I cannot likely offend anyone with my communication.

It seems like this gender neutrality or gender identity challenge is very much associated with Asperger's and BPD, from what I have observed personally, the current research that exists, and what I have read recently about BPD.

I'm not sure about the other personality disorders, but I think at least with females it likely has something to do with ASPD. Interestingly though, my understanding is that Male psychopathy is associated with high 2d/4d digit ratio per low prenatal testosterone, which is interesting as one might not expect that per the testosterone association. 2d/4d digit ratio was one of my special interests and I was very surprised to find that on the Wiki page that has links for the associated research.

http://verbosestoic.wordpress.com/fearl ... h-emotion/

I've a certain guilt level, but I guess the main reason I don't harm anyone is mostly because first I've no reason to and just a low agression level and second I would be too scared that I've to give up my life and to be locked away because I'm highly claustrophobic and would rather like to die than being locked away. But I also have some empathy and that's the maindifference between a psychopath and me. I might have a very low guilt level and sometimes I don't care, but I've fear and empathy and that's why I'm trying to be nice (well at least most of the time ). But I also can get very cruel and unforgiving to people, who very cruel to me, but those are mostly exeptions. Most psychiatrists who are not experienced in ASD have trouble understanding this combination and sometimes try to explain it with some other disorders who doesn't really work out.
One of my mainproblems is that I have no feeling of time whatsoever and that I need to come over things my way. So it doesn't matter to me when something happened years ago or just a day. Time doesn't make a real difference when I try to come over negative experiences. A psychiatrist explained me the day befor yesterday that a certain experience that is terrible for me is already 2 1/2 years ago, but I didn't understood that argument at all.



I don't really think that many psychiatrists are psychopaths or even close. Many psychiatrists I met also have some mental health problems themself, but in most cases minor once. Funny that you mention it, but I'm convinced that my surgeon who did the FtM top surgery is psychopathic and it might sound paradox, but that's why I trusted him, because I knew he is way too narcissistic to do a mistake, because he is known as a top surgeon.

I don't really have many motor skill difficulties myself, but that's because I'm a lot more HFA, but I still couldn't imagine being a surgeon, I'm way too routinized for that.



Yes, BPD and Asperger's (ASD in general) both have gender difficulties, but different once. In ASD they are a lot more stable and you have a very high chance to have the same gender problems all your life, but in BPD on the other hand they are a lot more fluctuating. I myself am not hyper masculine myself, but I identify as male and needed my top surgery to be happy. I was desperetly unhappy befor and couldn't identify with my body at all. But I still have some feminine behaviour and many people actuall think that I'm propably gay or something. I don't really care, so long as I'm happy with myself.
BPD and ASD has some overlapp -also in the emotion disregulation- but the maindifference is, that autistics are a lot more stable and even very often stubborn, but people with BPD on the other hand fluctuate a lot more and not just in their emotions, also in their interests, what they identify with and so on.

Last edited by Raziel on 15 May 2013, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Okay. I imagine it's easier if it's just a location change rather than a career change. You don't get bored with the job itself but with the surroundings/environment. That's opposite of me. Well, actually not quite opposite. I get bored with both, but I can't handle the logistics of moving all the time and absolutely loathe the process of applications and interviews.

To tell the truth I really envy your ability to just spontaneously move. I've met people like that and I really really do envy them. I kind of romanticize the carefree drifter life. Of course for some people it doesn't work out and they wind up homeless or destitute. I just feel so empty/stuck and am really really tired of being financially dependent on my parents. I'm 33 and feel like the clock is ticking away my life.

It seems like you have no trouble making spontaneous decisions but have trouble following through with things. I've noticed some ADHDers and so-called high functioning sociopaths are like this, extremely agile when it comes to getting their foot in the door and making quick decisions, but unable to follow through with anything. I'm the exact opposite. It's not that I hate change (monotony kills me after a while) but I loathe decisions, especially seemingly random/arbitrary ones. I got terrible writers block in school and turned in blank assignments because I just couldn't choose a topic or get started. It seems like all my social problems boil down to this as well. It's not "missing cues" or not having "theory of mind", it's not being able to decide what the f**k to say when there's no pre-determined topic or common interest to begin with. I do have the tendency to ramble on but can consciously correct it in a one-on-one interaction if I really try. The main problem is just going blank and I have a strong feeling it's not JUST anxiety (though that's definitely part of it). It's this "executive function" issue with my brain. But my "executive function" problem must be close to the opposite of yours. Maybe not, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm tempted to now undiagnose you of Ass Burgers since you seem to be the exact opposite of me. But then I remember there are others on this site who seem to have opposite traits compared to me yet are diagnosed and struggle socially for seemingly different reasons. I give up.

Interesting point about HFA and better motor skills, as that relates to potential "Right Brain" Dominance, and good visual spatial skills.

I have sensed a correlation but haven't come across any good research to that effect other than Gillberg's mandatory criteria that Motor skills difficulties must be met per neurodevelopmental assessment for diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome.

My visual spatial skills are not good, but as mentioned earlier in the thread neither is my vision. I have to wonder too if near sighted folks are more common among the "Asperger's type".

It certainly meets the old stereotype of the "four eyed" nerd. Glasses are cool now I think, compared to what they were when I was a child. I used get called 4 eyes all the time, when I was a kid, but I'm not sure if kids even concern themselves with that anymore.

90% of school age children in China are nearsighted according to the study linked below. Perhaps, in part, it is those 4 inch screens they are looking at. I can still see the 4 inch screen but not the TV 3 feet away. Not even a big screen without corrective lenses.

http://healthland.time.com/2012/05/07/w ... arsighted/

I agree. I had a professional MMPI-type test that scored above the critical theshold in both "borderline" and "dysthymia" categories. This lead to a bout of hypocondriatic obsessiveness. I have some obsessive anger issues that go beyond typical ASD meltdowns, feel insecure a lot, have very low patience, and lash out at / ridicule people who annoy me but didn't necessarily do anything to fully deserve it, only to feel remorseful later on because my ideal self-image is basically a quiet/thoughtful/nice person. I also have the "chronic emptiness" but don't know if that's better explained by just plain old depression. I came to the conclusion that I don't really relate completely to most people with BPD though. I understand whats going on with them but they just seem too hyper-NT to me and I can't relate.

I relate to people with BPD ok, but what I don't identify with is the constant crisis mode. Also, a lot of them do not have weaknesses when it comes to love, empathy, and attachment to nearly the same extent that I do. I don't know if it means they are "NT" or not. You and I have some similarities, including the same first score in that reading the mind through movies test, but I don't know if I feel remorse or not. What exactly is remorse? I think I feel remorse for hurting someone by accident, but I'm not sure I ever do if my reaction was a reaction to an insult or slight.

Tyrion wrote:

Remorse is when you look back on something you did and feel sorry.Sometimes the pain can be unbearable, but it is the way out of being in hell. Most people today do not understand this mechanism. I know I did not. These reactions to insults and such seem to be okay because we do not understand the difference between reacting and consciously doing an action. They are two different things, two different worlds.

Let's say a person accidentally harms a precious animal or child because he did not know what he was doing, meaning he was not paying attention to his movements..Why would he feel remorse if it was an accident? perhaps because he should have been conscious of his movements, of what he was doing. A reaction to an insult is a mechanical movement. It is not a conscious response. When a response is not conscious it can cause harm in a way which a person who is not conscious cannot really understand, so it is not possible to feel remorse, but later, when a person becomes conscious, then maybe he will feel remorse.

Why are people not conscious? Because we do not have a reason to be completely conscious, meaning that we do not think about things in a way which really makes sense. We do not see that everything is interconnected. We are emotionally cut off, thinking of oneself, the me, as separate, as entitled,as the little king, so we are not sensitive. Once cut off, always cut off is the general principle, but this cannot be true, as if it were really true then it would make no sense to live. People do know and feel deep in their hearts that they are connected to their brother. The thing is to make this feeling more conscious. Of course this is not easy, but it is possible. The path is heroic, but it gives deep meaning, rich treasure. The reward.is great.