So I posted in the infamous AS partners forum for NT's...

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Thank you! Although my mission was rather futile, I at least wanted to let people know that AS partners is a site that consists of distraught men and women who are looking for something to blame for their failure of a relationship- I guess my point was proven correct with some of the examples fellow users have posted here in this thread.

We can all take solace in the fact that at least 6,000+ people have seen this foolishness with their own eyes.

What kind of support group kicks out their members for interacting with autistic people? I applaud Elkclan for being polite and civil when interacting with us, it's a great shame we can't say the same about the others.

"run a mile" Bstn3 must be British or Irish.
Maybe that's why she lacks the Yank appreciation for freedom of speech.

I know you're joking, but to prevent any confusion I should emphasise that those weren't her exact words. I cannot quote directly because her post and the entire thread has been deleted now.

I'm sorry to hear that.

WrongPlanet is Ggggrrrreattt!

Forget about the "other Forum!"

I must say I'm in 2 minds what to say about Bstn3 at the moment. On the one hand there is a huge positive change in her posting which is too easy to miss. She has recently started acknowledging consistently that many members of the ASPartners forum do not know their partner's true diagnosis, that it may not be AS at all, or at least that there may be much more than AS at work. This is incredibly important, and I think that making such a significant change to a strongly held belief can't have been easy for her, so I'm impressed. This in spite of the fact that there are a lot of provocative posts about her recently from people here, which are infuriating her no end. Nonetheless she's still taken a positive step. I'm not being ironic here, I'm actually impressed.

On the other hand I do think she is personally responsible for a lot of the NT vs aspie attitude in the first place. Many of the posters there are just hurt and are not really so extreme, and some are even quite fair and objective, or even insightful. It's easy to judge a whole group of individuals based on the posts that stand out the most. But just as you wouldn't want to be judged by the actions of someone else with AS, or even by the words of the minority here who bash NTs, it's only fair to judge members of ASPartners as individuals too. Just because someone posts alongside the more extreme members, is friendly towards them and doesn't contradict them, it does not necessarily mean they agree with everything they say.

As head moderator of the forum and the most active member, Bstn3 sets the tone for the site and heavily influences others. Her posts have historically seemed to have a real us vs them agenda, being quick to turn someone's terrible marriage story into "just another example of typical aspie behaviour", and throwing in extreme examples of abusive and sociopathic behaviour, claiming that the perpetrators are surely aspies.

I haven't been able to get my head around what could be driving her. But while perhaps I'm just being naive, I'm wondering if just maybe it's starting to change for the better. Perhaps it will continue to shift towards the condemning of abuse rather than the condemning of AS people? I really, really, really hope it does! AS does not make someone an abuser, nor is it a valid excuse for such. If folks there can make clear distinctions between AS and abusive behaviour, and avoid claiming that all AS people in the world are like their partners, the site would be just fine in my books!

I noticed that she said that in the latest replies to the person who revived that sociopath thread. Though I initially interpreted it to mean that it doesn't really matter if their partners have Aspergers or not, which I don't really think is that positive because they're still blaming it on Aspergers. If they did acknowledge that there were comorbids or that any abuse is not caused by Aspergers then that would be a positive step though. If there is any change, then it may have to do with a PM conversation that she had with me last year when she came onto WP. On other hand, she also did post this:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13521.1

We should remember that Delphi is actually whole system for hosting forums. There are a number of other more positive Asperger related forums on Delphi but I happen to know that bstn has been banned from every one of them, including another forum called "AS and their Partners", which unlike that one, also allows aspies to post there. She's probably pretty humiliated now from the episode on WP and the drama.



I notice that not all of them are as extreme in their views.



Maybe, maybe not. I hope it does.

I find that very ironic because I don't know how many times I have seen people get accused of being NT, now I saw on that forum about if someone does't fit her mold, they are not an NT.

Maybe she was banned from every aspie forum because of her negative view about it and no one wants that on their forum. How do you know she was banned from all aspie forums, did she say?

Maybe she was banned from AS and Their Partners due to her negativity about it. I wonder if she owns AS Partners and she created it so it's her safe heaven to post.

I know because she told me. She came onto Wrongplanet, I think in November last year and sent me a PM about another thread about ASPartners, which is now locked. I think you probably already know which one it is.

I have read that post of hers you linked to, and to be fair it did not specifically connect the abusive behaviour to AS. She even said she was not blaming one diagnosis. The main point seemed to be that abuse is abuse, and if you are abused you need to protect yourself first, and not try to excuse your partners behaviour or let them off on account of a condition. I'd tend to agree.

I see from some of her other posts that she believes her whole family have AS. Of course I have no clue whether this is true, but if it's what she believes then she must surely have entertained the possibility that she might have some traits herself. Perhaps her previous efforts to draw a solid line between NTs and aspies was in part an effort to distinguish herself from her family. It would make about as much sense as any other explanation.

Fortunately though, AS is nothing like the sociopathic condition she has previously described it as. Even if AS is in her family, it's a vast spectrum and no 2 people on it are the same. I also know that it's possible to be on the spectrum and still be a good and caring person, who's attentive to their partner's needs. I know this because having read many of their threads on that forum, I know I have almost none of the negative behaviours they describe of their partners, but frequently do almost all of the positive things which they say they wish their partners would do. Unfortunately, that also means partners like my wife will never feel the need to visit support forums to tell people. As far as she can tell, AS is a super-mild condition akin to dyslexia, which results in my sometimes trying to cuddle her at the wrong time or forget to take out the bins. But I'm working on those issues...

Well, first of all the word "meltdown" is something that I would associate ASD and that's why I interpreted it the way I did. I also think that you've missed this line at the bottom of that post which specifically mentions her recent experience on Wrongplanet:



That sentence to me looks like she's still saying that people with AS are like those 2 examples even if she doesn't specifically make that claim in the rest of the post. She mentioned Adam Lanza, which I interpreted to be trying to make a connection with Sandy Hook shooter (who did have a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome) to the one in the article even though ASD wasn't even mentioned.

I do agree that abuse is abuse and that Aspergers is not an excuse for it. However, I have also never seen any concrete evidence, published in any peer-reviewed paper. In fact most of the evidence suggests that ASD people are more likely to be victims than perpetrators. One sentence in the post that says that she's not blaming any single diagnosis, does little to mitigate the overall feeling I get that she still thinks that AS is one possible cause. Also, what I don't understand is, if you're not sure of an exact diagnosis, why would you pick one and then choose to demonise everyone who has it?

People who believe that lots of people have AS usually don't understand anything about AS.
They see AS in eberryone they don't like, I once read on AS Partners that someone thinks their workplace is 60% AS, and also there was discussion that AS is eberrywhere, like big percentages of people in general have it.
No, it is not that common yet, and I never believe in someone's judgment about AS or autism if they think that many people around them have it.

Lol. She's come back with 2 different usernames, over a period spanning a couple of years.
This just confirms that we shouldn't take her seriously.

People rarely respond positively to outrage against them and heavy criticism. Let her hate everyone who's posted here about ASPartners, it's better than demonising literally everyone with AS.



I can see she's indeed pointing to AS as one possible cause. All I'm saying is that when compared to her older posts, her more recent posts like this one seem much fairer. Why demonise everyone with AS? Probably because her and many others on the forum have spent years believing that AS is the cause of all the negative behaviours by their partners. If she is beginning to acknowledge that there may be other explanations and other conditions at work than just AS, at least it's a positive step. Ideally the name of the forum could be changed, if that's even possible. At least the message on the home screen could be changed to say that it's a refuge for partners of people with AS and other neurological and personality disorders. That would also ensure that newcomers could feel welcome even if they are not sure what their partner has. While I doubt any of that will actually happen any time soon, I'm at least hoping that some kind of positive shift is happening.

As for whether AS alone can cause abusive behaviour or at least result in behaviour that could be seen as abusive? While I know first hand that a healthy, supportive relationship is possible, I also think it's useful to explore if and how AS could potentially lead to a partner feeling abused.

I notice a lot of references over there to "the silent treatment." A lot seem to think autistics are maliciously non-responsive, that this behaviour is punitive and confrontational. When, actually it's the exact opposite. Its a desire for quiet and solitude. This could easily lead to the partner feeling lonely regardless of the motive, though.