Optimism and Reality: Goldfish21 Response to me

Post Reply New Topic

Yes, I do denounce those three things and here is why. Positivity and Confidence have no correlation of success they are the result of success. It wasn't positivity that improved my driving skills for goodness sake it was learning certain knowledge in driving school by an excellent driving instructor. I didn't understand how to change lanes that well. It wasn't my lack of confidence that was the issue like others in my life claim it was that I lacked certain knowledge. It wasn't a confidence problem it was a knowledge problem. If others would have focused on what I was logically saying and filled the gaps instead of focusing on my attitude the problem would have been resolved. I did lack faith in myself and confidence myself but it was a symptom not the issue. Others wish to treat those as the problem and not the symptom. In other words, our society including Mr. Bransen wants to treat the symptoms not get to the root of the problem. It's sort of like putting sealant on a pipe that temporary fixes a leak but the leak will happen again in a few months because the sealant will eventually wear off. No, you have to FIX that section of pipe. By the way, because of the instruction I received I have a more positive attitude and more confidence in my ability to drive.

As for most people you're right. Most people aren't going to read what I say. If they read what I said with critical thinking and logical based thinking then we wouldn't even be having this discussion, I would be wrong in the things I have claimed and we would be living in a completely different society today.

Of course Mr. Bransen is successful and rich. He knows the right things to do and say within the given construct that exists today. He knows how to conduct his behavior as others define it to be and he knows how to play the game better then the rest. Quite honestly, I don't like the game one bit. It's phony and fake. It is one where one has to pretend to be something one is not. It is a game in which one has to sell his soul.

For myself, I wish I could have a job and live in a society, any society, any job in which I can be myself and live a decent life. I wish I could live a life of authenticity instead of being forced to conform to someone else's archetype I don't fit. Is there anywhere I can actually go where I can be myself?

Here is the thing. If you (anyone who tells another to just be confident) are not going to spend time to help this person gain this confidence you're wasting this person's time. Are you (person telling another to be confident) willing to be that person's Henry Higgins? If you're not then you are wasting that person's time. All it is is meaningless, hackneyed and cliched advice that is as old as a rusted sardine can.

Let's look at example of job postings. I didn't understand that the job postings were just merely wishlists and not rules to be adhered to. This alone could have saved me tons of issues when I graduated college and was job hunting long ago. Instead of explaining things like this it is this whole you must have confidence thing which doesn't help. I've also been told most of the jobs are not even online. Another thing, I didn't know. I don't lack confidence. I have signficant gaps in my understanding of the workplace and the hiring process. And trying to go online is like going through alice's rabbit holes. For me, confidence isn't my issue. It is ignorance that is my issue and I don't even know what I'm ignorant of in certain cases. Trying to obtain info online is like going through alice's rabbit holes.

Another thing. Turns out, NTs in the USA don't mean what they say when they say "be yourself." It really means "be your best self." And, this best self is defined by others. You don't define this best self. We live in an other-directed based society. I have always thought we lived in an inner-directed society, rational-based, and empathetic society. This is false. We live in a society that is other-directed, emotional-directed and a society that does not give a damn.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lonely_Crowd

You’re distorting reality to fit your logic paradigm. That’s not how the world works. Countless successful people will tell you the same universal truths, that positive attitudes & confidence beget success. They recognize these traits in others the hire them for jobs & set them loose to succeed for themselves and earn the business profits. That’s how things work whether you want to accept it or not.

The only way you’re going to move forward, IMO, is by successfully treating your depression, anxiety, and ASD symptoms.

Otherwise, in logical terms to fit your paradigm, you’re stuck in a circular reference loop & suffering from analysis paralysis.

What have I said that is inaccurate and wrong?

1. Telling someone to simply just be confident doesn't work.

2. True, Genuine, Confidence is a byproduct of things like competency, success, social skills and other things.

3. If the person telling the other to just be confident is not going to take time to help them through the things that lead to confidence then that person is wasting the other person's time. If the person is not willing to be the other person's Henry Higgins then that person is wasting the other person's time. Let's say a person wants to become a pest control technician. If the person says the information on how to go into it is scant is the other person who says "be confident" willing to help them obtain the information and sit down with them and work with them bit by bit? Is that person willing to put in that time and effort to help that other person become a pest control technican? If not, again you're wasting their time by telling them to be confident. I'm not going to be like ASS-P and have all kinds of hope I will receive this. In fact, I think future parents need to accept that their disabled children will be more likely be disabled dependent adults and plan accordingly.


4. I've been to therapy since I was 4. If "getting help" (really means go to therapy) actually helped then I would be more successful today.

5. I'm going to assume that when we're talking about the "real world" I'm assuming we're talking about the USA or Western Civilization in the modern era.

6. Another thing, if telling people who are disabled and unemployed all they need is confidence and to be more positive then wouldn't the unemployment rate for those who are disabled be much lower? And, wouldn't we all be able to achieve what Branson has achieved.

7. In our society we're expected to conform and contort ourselves to a certain archetype. In other words, our society is other-directed and not inner-directed. I don't get to define what my best self is. Society defines that for me and one is expected to conform to that. I have a choice to make then.

8. Confidence in of itself isn't key to success, conformity is. That's what it comes. Our culture or our "real" world is a conformist culture. If parents are going to have their disabled children be independent then that is the first thing the child will need to fully understand in which success is dependent upon conformity to a particular archetype.

How is anything that I have claimed untrue or any kind of distortion at all?

If the extent of what I will receive from others is be confident then I am going to recommend any parent who has a disabled especially asperger child to accept the fact more then likely they will not be able to succeed in today's world. I would recommend these parents save up for their child (if they can) and forget trying to normalize them and mainstreaming them. I think the prognosis for those with disabilities especially ASDs is pretty poor. I'm beggining to side Jonathan Mitchell and what he says.

http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... -help.html

Now it seems poor but we do not know the future. There could be better acceptence of the way we are, more knowledge of autism and better treatments or just their childs natural maturation.

I think it is wrong to write off a person as a child when they have their whole life ahead of them.

cubedemon6073:

Your thinking is far too rigid. Life isn't so black and white. You can't fit everything into binary answers yes/no. Everything has a grey area and you're incapable of seeing it. You'll never be able to understand everything you want to by trying to jam it into a yes/no logic matrix. That's just the way it is.

No one is going to sit beside you, or ASS-P, or anyone else and explain every minute detail of what builds confidence to become a pest controller or any other occupation. Yes, people learn things that make them more confident - even things about confidence by reading self help books, but no one is going to literally sit beside you and coach you word by word, thought by thought. No one does that for anyone else, either. So, logically, that's not how people develop confidence in the first place. Maybe the way your brain is wired & functions won't allow you to make the connections on these things & realize them for yourself. Maybe not amount of discussion about it, or reading books, or ___ will change that. I have no idea. What I do know is that you're still thinking the same way you were pages ago, so, without you changing somehow there's not going to be any real forward progress going over the same things in this thread.

Yep. I think it's also wrong to tell them they're incapable or limited, as then they may not try and achieve something they otherwise could have. Every single kid is different. One diagnosis label should not spell doom for their entire life. Some are higher functioning than others. etc.

No we don't know the future. But we can make projections.

Actually, not all hope is lost. Let's say Mitchell's model is followed. I'm actually going to put some positivity to this. If the child doesn't have to worry about being employed then that frees them up pursue their own path and pursue what they want. They don't have to worry about having to pretend to be something they're not. Imagine, a child who pursues his own interest. Since he doesn't have to worry about being employed maybe he'll write the next great novel, come up with a novel way to travel, maybe a fuel source, etc. Even if they wanted to be employed they would have the option not to be.

The possibilities are endless. No, instead we as a society have to force people to play someone else's game by someone else's rules in the mainstreaming and normalizing them. Why?

Many people with autism spectrum disorders do succeed, despite the "odds."

One could even succeed if one is on something like SSI. One could be a genius volunteer.

Because that's the way most humans have evolved to function in society & our various economic systems around the globe? Hence the world "normal," or "normalizing."

Either we make an extraordinary effort to fit in as best we can, or the alternative for many would be to die. No money, no food, no clothing, no shelter, no medicine etc.

Sure, people are free to run off into the woods and live off the land.. but it's not the most viable option for most of us who aren't NT. So, we Try to make the most of things by Trying to fit in as best we can and make things work. Why? Because we have needs & wants like everyone else.

You didn't even read what I said.

Let's just agree to end this conversation right here, ok? Neither of us are getting anywhere except for myself becoming pissed off.

Don't accuse me of not reading what you wrote. I read it and replied. I did not click the link to see whatever Jonathan Mitchell's opinion is, but I read what you wrote & I replied to it.

Ok dude!

You said ".....builds confidence to become a pest controller or any other occupation..."

What I said were the steps to actually become a pest controller or any other occupation. I don't need the steps on how to build confidence to become a pest controller or any occupation.

I'm going to assume that the answer for others to provide these steps is no. Looking at ASS-P's situation it seems like this has what caused it. I don't want to go down his path.

I will have to

a. get the info in a different manner

b. work around the lack of info

c. accept the possibility that the info is not meant for me to have.

I can easily see myself going down the same road ASS-P did. I don't want to do that.

I'm going to do my own Apps.

We’ve been over this.

Apply for/inquire about job. Hear back from potential employer/follow up proactively. Go to interview if required. If you receive a job offer out of it, accept it and go to work. Etc.

If the very basic process of applying for a job and going from unemployed to employed isn’t something you’re able to grasp then no amount of explanation is going to magically make you understand.

Majority most often imposes their will on the minority. It does not have to be malicious, if all the information one receives is that this way is the correct way of doing or thinking it becomes an ingrained assumption.

I really wish Mr. Cube could own his own business; it would solve lots of problems.