*The European WP Meet in Central Southern France!*

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Wow, what a great weekend. Thanks to everyone for making it happen. Getting to meet real life people with real life AS in actual real life was really really cool. Since my diagnosis, I've spend a lot of time here on WP reading about the negative aspects of AS, but meeting all of you in Avignon and having such a great weekend together was a real eye opener. You all turned out to be great people in so many different ways and that makes me more confident in my own future - that maybe this AS business isn't such a complete handicap.

Unfortunately, my laptop is quite handicapped. Dead in fact, so this will be the extent of my contributions for now. I'm typing in an internet cafe where hygeine isn't held in high regard. I'm going to go find somewhere clean now and wash my hands until they smell like bleach. It's worth it to say thanks though

It was absolutely wonderful to meet you too. I'm really glad you managed to make it, and be there for so much of the weekend.

I've just got back, in body at least; my mind is still in Avignon. Am totally frazzled/spaced out after the late nights, billions of coffees, masses of conversation, and a few drinks too!

It was incredibly intense, and time seemed to stretch like first term at uni, when two days ago feels like a month. Heaps to digest/process. Will post more about how it when I have really "landed"/"touched down" here at home.

At least a couple of people took photos, which we've agreed to post in a thread in Member's Forum, ( with a link from this one ). Either I'll do that later today or tomorrow, or whoever first has photos to post can do it.

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Feeling very sad today. It was such an amazing and wonderful experience. And it's over. I'm back home with my son, and his father, in our little village.

I wish we could meet like this every weekend, or at least every couple of weeks. I felt so understood, and accepted.

I am sure we sometimes looked like a very odd group. Not all the time, because we would talk and laugh together for half an hour, an hour, or more, almost as if we were completely "normal" , but there were frequent lulls/pauses when we just sat there, not speaking, staring into space, at our hands, whatever, and then I thought we must look to outsiders as if we hated each other, or had had a row, because you don't often see groups of 6-8 people sitting in silence round a cafe/restaurant table for 15 minutes at a time.

The way we walked around, between places in the town, etc, must have looked funny too. It reminded me of when I was a child on holiday with my parents; my dad would be out in front striding along, then my sister and mother walking in the middle, exchanging remarks, followed by me, yards behind, daydreaming, or "sulking/fuming" about yet another restriction/telling off/parental idiocy, or just preferring to be on my own.

In the same way this weekend there would be me, often, or someone else, out in front, a few in the middle talking to each other, and others walking along completely "separately", way behind, or drifting along beside the group.

Conversations went all over the place. Even when we talked about the weather, how we had slept, the journey we had, what our food was like, etc, it was with attention and seriousness, because we wanted to know, and not as chitchat/blah blah/filler.

We visited three "sites";

ManErg, Morgana, KenG, EnglishLulu, and me, visited Chartreuse, the largest Carthusian monastery in France, ( just outside Villeneuve-les-Avignon on the other side of the Rhone from A ), on the Friday. It had a lovely atmosphere, very peaceful, and evocative of times when life was much slower, quieter, steadier. We ate lunch there too, in the shade of platanes, in a lovely old square.

The five of us, plus Seashell and Darth, ( who both arrived at 16.00 on the Friday ), and Raggle, ( who arrived on the Friday evening while we were eating and drinking in a Corsican restaurant in a tiny side street, whose "patron" was a real "personality"/character, and who late in the evening sang Corsican folk songs for us, accompanying himself on guitar ), went to the Palais des Papes on the Saturday morning, after a leisurely breakfast at a cafe terrace in the big open square in front of it. The Palais is huge, and I found it very "heavy", monolithic, meant to "impose", and it seems to have been mainly an administrative centre, "imposing" taxes! . Interesting to see the breakdowns of papal expenses. One pope spent as much, ( at least a third ), of their budget on "lighting", ( candles, torches, etc ), as another spent on war!

And on the Sunday, after a morning spent in a cafe drinking coffees etc, hiding from torrential rain, ( which luckily dried up in the afternoon ), six of us, ( because Raggle had to go home that day, and EnglishLulu had decided to have a lie-in in the morning, and phoned us at lunchtime to say she was going to the cinema in the afternoon because of the rain ), went to Isle sur Sorgue, a kind of "mini-venice" of Provence, with small streams/"canals", bridges ancient waterwheels, and flowers everywhere. We sat for a long time at a cafe trying out various local drinks, and people wandered off to look around from time to time.

On the Saturday evening we ate at a Moroccan restaurant, in the Rue des Teinturiers which is where the Tanners and Dyers etc used to live and work, along a canal/stream, with waterwheels etc, ( just like at Isle sur Sorgue ), and afterwards checked out a fete/"bal du quartier" in a small square there. I liked the music they were playing early on, drums and guitar, people dancing, but later on it got very busy and the music changed. Four of us, me included, found the noise and crowds too much so went back to the hotel at about 11.30. but ManErg, Morgana, Raggle, and EnglishLulu, stayed until almost 3.00 am. ( ... and apparently had a really good time )

We also found a cafe in a square, on the Friday evening, where we sat for ages drinking "aperitifs", muscat, kir, beer, aswell as juices, ( before going to eat ), to which we returned three times over the weekend it was so nice; the waiters/waitresses were really friendly and welcoming. I discovered "sirop de noisettes" ( a kind of Ribena but made with hazelnuts instead of blackcurrants ); it is mmmmmmmmm

That's all for now. Hope we can do something similar again, very soon!

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Realise I want to say what else I ate and drank!

Friday: Foie de veau persillé ( very tender slice of liver, pink in the middle, cooked in parsley, garlic, and butter, and served with lots of tasty green salad, and segments of roast potato ), at Chartreuse; kir, ( blackcurrant liqueur with white wine ); hazelnut syrup, and the second of the dozens of coffees I drank over the weekend, at our favourite café; a "planche repas", at the corsican restaurant, ( a wooden board of three kinds of goats cheese, three kinds of cured hams, fig jam/chutney, and a salad of mixed green leaves in a balsamic dressing ), plus red wine, and one of EnglishLulu's 4 lamb-chops!

Saturday: coffee, a ham and cheese salad with sweet ripe tomatoes, a rich creamy fromage frais with stewed apple and peach, juice and a Mars Bar! to recover after the Palais, then sirop de melon, and a muscat, ( sweet aperitif wine ), and another coffee, at our favourite café, followed by a chicken, lemon, and olive tajine, and mint tea, at the moroccan restaurant. Next time we meet in Morocco, right? ... ! !!

Sunday: Coffee, while hiding from rain, then steak, ( pink in the middle ), with creamed spinach and carrots, and green salad, at a "classic" french cafeteria, followed by more sirops and coffees at favourite café in afternoon, and Suze Gloss, ( cherry and ginger aperitif ), at Isle sur Sorge. Icecream with whipped cream and a fresh fruit salad at another restaurant in a square in the evening.

Monday: Coffee at favourite café, juice, and Carpaccio de boeuf, ( very thin slices of almost raw beef ), with garlic, olive oil, and fine shavings of parmesan at café/restaurant in the Rocher des Doms, ( park on the rocky outcropping next to the Palais ), followed by Callissons, ( regional speciality; lozenge shaped pieces of marzipan made with melon or apricot jam instead of sugar, topped with very thin layer of crisp sugar icing ), and coffee again, in a small park near the station.

Everything was delicious!

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Wonderful time in Avignon.
I'm missing all the people I've met there
I think that to meet people with AS in real life was a very interesting experience. Moreover, all of you were very kind people, all different but each in a good way.
We had so many drinks at the "Bistrot à Tartine chez Ginette et Marcel", and even a chocolate cake for breakfast !
I also drank the worst beer of my life, it had a metallic taste (and ManErg as well)
An amazing fact about this meeting is that nobody disagreed when we were talking. Nobody saying : "I don't agree" or "It's totally false".
I really had a special time with all of you, ManErg, ouinon, SeaShell, Morgana, KenG, EnglishLulu, and Raggle.
And for the people who weren't at this meet, here's a summary :

I arrived at Avignon at 2:00 PM on Friday the 29th.
I met all the people, except Raggle, at 4 o'clock.
We first went to a café, where I had my first beer (not the worst one !) and tasted a delicious hazelnut syrup.
Then, we searched for a restaurant, and we found a nice Corsican Restaurant : here's the link : Mamma Corsica, it was delicious. Raggle joined us there.
I think we had another drink, and then I went back to the Etap Hotel at 11:30 PM.
The second day, we had breakfast in a terrace in front of the Palais des Papes, that we visited just after (I will post photos in the member's only thread )
Then we ate at a sort of fast-food (I've chosen a sandwich, but most of the people took a salad).
After this, we wandered a bit in Avignon and went back to the hotel for a rest.
Another chat and drink at "Ginette et Marcel", oh, I forgot to mention that we chatted a lot about Films and Autistic Sexuality.
Then we found a Moroccan restaurant, where we ate Tajine and couscous (for those who are not allergic to Gluten !)
Then me, KenG, Ouinon, and SeaShell went back to the hotel, whereas the others stayed at a neighbourhood party until 3:00 AM ! (We said goodbye to Raggle, who had to leave)
The third day, RAIN !
After eating our breakfast (and chatting !) in a Bistrot, we went to the tourist office to have some information about the train who are going to Isle sur Sorgue.
We went to Flunch and when the rain stopped, while the others went back to the hotel for a rest, me, Seashell, and Ouinon had a chat at "Ginette et Marcel". We discovered that SeaShell was a huge fan of Formula 1 and motor sports !
Then we went to Isle sur Sorgue without EnglishLulu, who was tired of the neighborhood party (which ended at 3:00 AM).
We took the TER (regional train) to Isle sur Sorgue, and then we divided into two groups: one group would have a look on the antiques, the other would stay at a bar. I had there the worst beer of my life, ManErg tasted a Ricard and that "beer".
When we came back, Louise was waiting for us at the station. It was 8:40 PM. We then went to a sort of Bar/restaurant the "Wheel&Beer" where we chatted and ate. After, we went to the hotel and had a good night sleep.
When we woke up (8:45), time to say good bye to Morgana in the hall of the hotel, and I had a last cafe at "Ginette et Marcel" with the others.
I left at 11:00 AM, the Monday 1st of June.

I'm now in my Grand-Parents' house, in Volonne, near Sisteron.
Ouinon, I will create a topic in the Members' only discussion where I will post the photos and link to it !
EDIT : Here's the link to the photo topic : Photos of the WP meet in Avignon

Last edited by DarthMaxeuis on 02 Jun 2009, 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Me too! I'm missing being with other Aspies/AS/Autists; it was a very "special"/"warm" atmosphere, perhaps mainly because we already knew we had that in common and could relax and be more "ourselves"/more natural/more open.


Great! Thanks. I am really looking forward to seeing them.

PS. I hope everybody else got home alright. Hope that flights, shuttle connections, taxis, etc were straightforward, on time, not too expensive respectively.

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Great! They're lovely. Thank you so much for taking them.

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Nice to hear that you had a lovely trip hmmm I become kind of envious, especially when reading about all the good food.

Hope to be able to join another similar trip once.

Okay, now it´s my turn!

This trip was truly wonderful and amazing, and I agree with ouinon- I wish we could meet every weekend! I thought all of you were totally awesome, and I´m missing you guys already...

I don´t know if anyone else felt this way, but I had a tough time coming back into the NT world today. I forgot to say "hello" this morning to 2 people at work- (NTs get totally offended by stuff like that)- so I irritated 2 people already. It was so nice to be with you guys and feel TOTALLY natural, without all this playacting. I miss that already. I felt really disoriented at work, my mind was still in Avignon...(boy, I really do have trouble going from one thing to the other). I even missed my entrance to my building at work, and had to walk back to it; just a few days gone, and I´m lost....whatever....

Anyway, this trip was magical and mystical, and getting to know you guys was such a great experience! For me, there was something really spiritual about it (oops, there´s Morgana getting esoteric again). Not only was the atmosphere in France totally amazing, but the conversations and times we shared had an unusual intensity about them. It was so much easier to socialize, for me, anyway. As ouinon said, every now and then we all "zoned out", but it was great! Funny thing is, when I´m with an NT and there´s a lull in the conversation, I feel very uncomfortable, and I feel obligated to fill the space with words...but with other Aspies, it seems like the most natural thing in the world! These little breaks also helped us, at least, they helped me. All in all, though, we had very animated and INTERESTING conversations. Now that´s what I´m going to miss!

Another thing that I liked was that when we were in a group, generally we had one conversation amongst all of us. What I find so hard in the NT world is that if many people are sitting at a table, everyone tends to talk in different groups, and there are too many different conversations happening at once. I find this exhausting. Conversing with Aspies just seems less stressful and more laid back. I didn´t have to defend or apologize for my quirks, in fact, people understood them! What was also really interesting was that looking at the rest of you was like looking in a mirror and seeing a reflection of myself. (I think I learned a lot about myself this weekend, and I´m still trying to process it all). Of course, since my special interest is AS, I was in 7th heaven!

The food was totally awesome (as well as the French wine, of course). I 2nd the recommendation to the Corsican place! We all loved it. I had a delicious fillet of salmon, with a fresh salad and potatoes seasoned with hazelnut. At our favorite cafe, I always got the local specialty, a "muscat"- (hopefully I spelled it right)- which is a light, sweet white wine. I also loved my food at the Moroccan place, I had the same chicken dish as ouinon.

For anyone reading this thread who did not go to the meeting, I highly recommend taking part in a meetup like this in the future! Although the interaction in cyberspace is nice, there´s something a little flat about it. There´s much more dimensionality in seeing someone in person. One gets a chance to perceive the aura of that person. We noticed there were some surprises, and it was definitely more intense. I felt so connected...it´s hard to explain, unfortunately. I guess one would just have to trust my recommendation, and just try it out.

You forgot to make a list of the films we discussed about in Avingon. (You said you were going to make one) !
Anyway, I totally agree with you on the mirror thing and the absence of stress in our conversations. It was just magical...
I Strongly recommend other Aspies to meet like that. And it's even better if it's in a beautiful environment like Avignon.

Not long got back....Glad everyone seems to have got back safely. It might take a few posts and a few quiet days to really get down my feelings on the meet! Enough for now to say it was an absolutely wonderful experience, so good to meet such a bunch of unique, interesting, easy-to-get along with people. And the food, scenery and weather (mostly) were excellent too!!

For now, just a couple of points in addition to the accounts above:

Me too


I totally agree with this!


It was far worse than you've said here! I must have drunk a few thousand gallons of beer in my time and that was definately the *worst* I've ever tasted! To me, it tasted more like a smelly sock put in a pot of vinegar and left in the sun for a week.

The owner of the Corsican restaurant was an amazing character! Not on the spectrum, but an absolute eccentric! When we were leaving, he said he "really enjoyed our presence in his restaurant that evening". I had an impression of some real 'connection' there. This showed that even outside our group, with the right kind of tolerance we can all get along just famously!

I think I owe RaggleTaggle an apology for my monologue on the drink & drug excesses of my youth...it was just such an amazing, relaxed atmosphere at that street party - or was it the amount of wine I drunk that night?

Ouinons description of the 'moving' and the 'flow of conversation' is exactly how I saw it too.

As last one to leave, I felt very sad leaving the hotel today. However, overall, I have so, so many happy memories of those few days that will stay with me forever. I think Morgana is right when she says it was almost 'spiritual'. It was quite intense at times, especially for an inexperienced traveller such as myself who couldn't speak the language, but overall quite confidence building to have managed it all.

I would say to any WP member who in interested in something like this and can manage the travelling and cost (which is admittedly by no means trivial) to JUMP at the chance to go to any such event in the future!

Me too. All of the above.

If possible am feeling even sadder today, because the weekend showed me how online contact cannot completely replace real life connections, however satisfying the thread discussion, ( except perhaps if have enjoyed a very rich and frequent exchange of pms with someone ). "Something" important simply isn't there.

In "real" life I have cut down so much on contact with others, either deliberately or involuntarily, and have put up such a barrier generally in order to avoid the kind of disaster/muddles/pain/exclusion that has so often followed opening up/being sensitive to people in general, that I had forgotten just how "beautiful" it is, to be with a group of people sharing an experience, supporting and accepting each other, ( on the whole ).

I have got used to living like that, with little or no social contact apart from that with my son, and his father at weekends, and very rare phone calls with the few friends I still have from other times. I thought it was ok. And this weekend has, quite painfully, shown me how "bare"/arid/aseptically safe I have made my life, how empty of such connection it is.

My son and I sat at a café terrace this morning in the sun, and drew a birds eye view of a small community, his idea after I talked about how special the weekend was. I can see why so many people say at some point on WP that they would love it if we could create an AS community somewhere. And I wish there was some way we, and others too, could meet up on a fairly frequent basis, with rooms to retreat to when overloaded, etc, without spending too much money.

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Me too. He was direct, no fluff/front, and full of passion, for his music, for Corsica, etc. Alive. One time when Raggle, ( Irish ), and I were outside smoking he came out and we talked about Corsica and "resistance" and "difference"; he seemed very honest/open and "real".

As far as I am aware three people experienced moments of real overload, painful feelings in reaction to situations over the weekend. They're bound to happen, to someone at some point, during a long weekend like that with so much to deal with.

One of the meltdowns was the result of someone finding it too exhausting tolerating/allowing for another person's sensitivities, particularly the social/logistical complications arising from them. People on WP frequently criticise NTs for not tolerating/allowing for AS sensitivities, choosing rather to brush them off, dismiss them, not take the sensitivities seriously, to the point of suggesting that we are exaggerating or making things up. "Majority needs rule, ok". "Your needs are a nuisance". That is how many people react to "demands" from minorities.

So many AS have taught themselves to survive by overriding their sensitivities wherever possible, even if it costs them, preferring to deal with the often profound ill-effects afterwards rather than "create trouble"/make a fuss when in public, that I can see how watching while someone else insists on their particular needs being respected, with all the extra explanation/time/energy/social effort involved, might be intolerable, unbearable, an "ordeal", perhaps as hard, sometimes, as it is for the person with the sensitivities.

It's a while since I had to be so careful about food, but I remember that it was often excruciatingly difficult, to the point of tears sometimes, and that I was also aware of people around me becoming "impatient", which made it much worse.

But this happened on the evening of the third day, ( fourth/fifth for some ), so we were all starting to approach total frazzledom anyway!

I would definitely do it again. I loved meeting you all so much. Am very glad there are photos.

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Just thought I'd post Darth's link to the photo thread again, in case anyone missed it!

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Don't be daft, I loved your stories. Watch out for my mother though, she might be angry you led her boy astray

I agree, it'd be great if we could do this kind of thing more often. I spent a street sweepers salary over the weekend, but it was completely worth it.

I've not been eating gluten for the last few days, thanks to Ouinon and Morgana for advice on the issue. It'(s a shame that every bastard thing I normally eat contains gluten. I can't tell if it's been having any effects yet, I do feel a bit malnourished, but that could be because I've stopped smoking and gone for two nights of serious boozing. This really isn't a scientific study, but hopefully I'll be able to tell something soon.

Back here in normal life, I have a lot of crap to sort out, the kind of thing that normally stresses me out big time. Though it is stressing me, I think having met ye in Avignon, I feel more at ease. I look forward to talking to ye all properly when I fix my putain computer

Sorry! My brain has been quite frazzled since coming back.

Here´s a list from memory, so I may have forgotten some; anyone can add if I´ve forgotten:

1- specifically for you, DarthMaxeuis, was "Borat" (with Sascha Baron Cohen, the cousin of Simon Baron Cohen)

2- Science Fiction films were: "Demon Seed", "Dark Star"
(Some other film about food- what was it called? "Green Planet"? ManErg would know).

3- ouinon recommended "Dumb and Dumber", a comedy

4- for me, she recommended "House of Games" or "House of Cards" (whatever the title was)

5- films about AS- I recommend "Ben X", a dutch film
a film with a female Aspie-ish character is "Washington Park"
we also talked about "The Piano" and the film about Virginia Wolf- (dang, I forgot the name of it now- my brain really is fried!)- with Juliane Moore´s character also being Aspie-ish

6- spiritual- I recommend "The Fountain", though it may not be everyone´s thing

That´s all I can remember at this point.

Soylent Green?


That's it, with Lindsay Crouse and Joe Mantegna, by Mamet.

And the film about Virginia Woolf, and two other women at later time periods, is "The Hours", with Julianne Moore.

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