Optimism and Reality: Goldfish21 Response to me

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I'm glad she became a pilot. But, truth is things played in her favor. She was able to travel to an airport. Airport was close and others were willing to drive her. Others were willing and able to train her. Either the lessons were free or she had the money to pay for them or someone else paid for them. She was somehow able to clear medical tests. Certain details are glossed over and this is what others do with me as well. Thing is she's trying to make it seem like it was all her and all her will, belief and determination that caused her to succeed. Not totally true. This is a fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundament ... tion_error

My opinion: People don't need more positivity. What they need is more comprehensive, realistic and practical solutions. If postivity truthfully worked then wouldn't we as a society have more disabled people working then not in the labor force? Is it that they weren't positive enough or didn't have enough faith in themselves which is what others would say? It can't be the belief system we're working on is flawed. You do realize that's cult like thinking.

https://www.orange-papers.info/orange-cult_q0.html

Look at one and two and 55 especially.

Sure, she had support, resources, and assistance - so what? So has every single person, able bodied or not, who has ever achieved anything great. Whether an encouraging mother or partner, teacher, coach/trainer, neighbour or community member etc people rally behind those who aspire to greatness and help push them along until they reach their goal.

Personally, I have very large goals (for me) and as I disclose them to close friends and family I’m receiving a variety of encouraging comments as well as other potential support in the future. The more people that believe in me, the more I believe in myself being capable of achieving these goals, and the more likely I am to succeed - especially with the support of friends and family helping pave the way. That’s just the way these things work when someone is determined to do something big. Sure, I could achieve my goals solo (it’s doable) but it’s so much less daunting knowing that others have confidence in me AND are willing to asssist with their resources as necessary. As soon as finances allow (possibly this September) I’m going to return to University for a long time & it’s nice knowing that I have several homes closer to the Uni to crash at if I’m exhausted & family to rely on financially for an inexpensive place to live as well as possibly for future student loans in several years if I make the grade but have exhausted my resources etc. I still have to do all the work, but it’s nice to have backup. Same same for this woman & virtually everyone else who’s been able to accomplish their largest goals in part due to the love and support of other people in their lives.

How is it cult like thinking for an individual to think successful goal oriented thoughts? IMO it’s cult like thinking to suggest everyone think self limiting thoughts based on statistical probabilities of not achieving something.

I would WAY rather Try, and fail, than not try at all. In 35 years when I’m 70yo I’d rather look back and think “Yeah, I spent more than a hundred grand on another University education & I didn’t achieve my goal.. but at least I Tried! Oh, did I Try!! THAT was worth the time and money WAY more so than playing it safe and then looking back and always wondering, “could I have made it?”” I’m not just talking hypothetically, either. I’m putting my money where my mouth is and living this reality. As soon as my portfolio is worth $x I’m dipping out of the rat race to work part time + Summers and attend classes full time until I accomplish what I set out to do - even if it means I can’t get into my school of choice and have to leave the country to do so. I’m all in and going for broke, basically. I’ll be broke, possibly in debt tens of thousands of dollars, by the time I finish - but that’s okay; it’ll be worth it.

That’s my flying. You can justify staying on the ground all you want with all the numbers you want. That’s not the life for me.

Further, I’m curious what exactly you’re advocating, cube? Are you suggesting that no one should have goals and strive to achieve them?

Newsflash: Without high achieving statistical outliers, your statistics wouldn’t even exist as they do. Your coveted “average,” would be much lower and the probability of success would seem even more grim. If we all lived by your logic and rationale, nothing much would ever be achieved, there would be no Olympic athletes or astronauts or engineers or doctors AND the societal safety net of welfare/disability payments wouldn’t exist to allow you to stay alive. F that, we need people who shoot for the stars to advance anything at all for society. You should be cheering on anyone with ambition and ability to do things vs discouraging them because it’s their achievements that allow you to eat.

Also, I think statistical probabilities and averages are the downfall of your line of thinking. Why focus on comparing yourself relative to everyone else rather than to your own potential? That’s a far better metric. If everyone strives to reach 100% of their own personal potential we’d all be just fine & we wouldn’t have people like you crunching numbers in every direction in order to ease your own mind about your relative lack of career or financial success. If I give my goals a solid effort and Try me best to do 100% of what I can, and you do the same, and I accomplish what I can, and you accomplish what you can, then we’re both equally successful in terms of the potential we have to achieve. Think like that; it’s far less depressing.

Answer:

I advocate reason and logic over faith and belief.

I advocate obtaining goals that are reasonable for the individual to achieve and have criteria be as objective as possible for these reasonable goals.

I advocate that instead of being told to be confident and simply be positive I advocate for others to help that person achieve that confidence. Example: If I say I can't get a interview don't tell me that I see my self short, I need more confidence, etc, etc ask me why I don't think I can and LISTEN to my reasoning. Truthfully f*****g listen and THINK! And offer to really work with me. If you're not going to do that and all you're going to say is be more confident and more positive you're wasting my f*****g TIME! And, I don't mean you or you're that refers to only you specifically I'm referring to others in front street including but not limited to those who are Christian and those who are in the pop psychology.



How do you figure this? And, we need to look at other factors besides this whole believe in yourself thing. I believe I can succeed in an IT job and if not another. But, I need guidance to do that, not motivation, not positive affirmations, not stupid motivational youtube vids from those like Eric Thomas. https://www.youtube.com/user/etthehiphoppreacher/videos



And, what is my potential? How do I objectively determine this?



And, therein lies the issue what does 100% of one's potential mean? How do I or others know I'm doing 100% Its to subjective? What objective measures do we use that will be acceptable to others so that if I or someone else desires to call it quits on something then that is acceptable? Look at ASS-P. He believes he can do college and what not. He is positive he can do it? No, he can't. He's f*****g sick dude. He is no position to do that. If he said that I can't do college because of the issues he states then would his negativity and can't attitude be acceptable in this case. In our society he should have a can-do attitude? Why? He needs to be negative on college and quit that and focus on his health and f**k what everyone says. He is one example out of others of why this whole positive thing makes no sense at all



And if I did and still ended up on SSDI anyway, now what? Keep doing the same thing again and again that doesn't work. I went to college and had jobs that were handed to me by the grace of God meaning I never pursued them. I even created an AI player for tic tac toe. I believed I could do it even though the instruction was s**t. I sat there, I did different things to work it out. I finally got with help from someone else somewhat. He gave me certain advice as to where I was looking at it wrong that helped me to complete it. He spent time. He discussed things with me. He explained things. We had fun and laughs. Communication was by email but still. He didn't give me the confidence speil.

When I was younger my IQ was 78. Ten years ago, it was 98. Now, it's 108. My hard work with college especially logic and reason helped to increase my IQ. So, I've had success increasing my IQ where those people who make the test says IQ is permenant.

I successfully graduated college with a Bachelor of IT Degree.

Unless I'm wrong, I do think I'm a very intelligent man. But, when I had to get a job on my own I literally was unable to do it and ten years later I still can't work out what to do especially when everyone requires experience in differing things, we have personality tests in which the very internal structure of them are logically inconsistent and some of the questions are open to interpretation. And, there can be up to 100 of questions and sometimes the questions repeat and if you don't even remember the answer you had on the same question previously and the emotion you had previously you're f****d. And, I end up just zoning and conking out after a while. Sometimes, I may feel strongly one moment one moment and not as strong the next. So, I have difficulty with that f*****g test. Like I said, I don't need more confidence or positivity. I'm intelligent. I know I can do things. I've perservered at things and accomplished goals. But, I need major guidence and help to obtain a job in 2018's world.

But, I doubt I will receive this but it is the only way I can on. I've tried going to online but the info online is so scant. But in the end though in spite of my best efforts and my belief in myself I still after 10 years am still on SSDI and still could not figure what to really do to get my self employed or be able to even get an interview let alone pass one.

Looking at the job market now and seeing how even NTs are having problems what makes you think I can be able to obtain a job and be able to provide myself a living whatsoever in spite of my best efforts? Believe in my self? Have the right attitude? I did. It didn't work out for me in the end.

And then it takes me 2 hours to even do one job application since they're so goddamned f*****g long and I have to shift from my electronic resume to their resume and copy and paste. Because, I end up tiring out after going about the fourth of the way of filling these things out. And the kicker is these companies force you to upload your resume and you still have to fill their s**t out and so I have to go in and correct errors the computer makes with the upload. I did this for a year to a year and a half to two years while being on SSDI. I tried to maintain focus and I tried to keep a stiff upper lip as everyone suggested. I tried to be positive. I literally did f*****g try. What more do those like yourself want for me? To never give up? Until when? Until I become a broken shell like ASS-P. Hell no. Hell f*****g no. Why? If not giving up leads me to being him then why wouldn't it make sense to give up and quit playing someone else's game? Why? Why is it wrong to simply fold your cards and walk away from the poker table? Why isn't that a legitimate move in our western culture's eyes?

I should never ever went to college or have gotten married. I would have just filed for SSDI when I graduated high school and/or maybe continue to work at Kroger. Truth is, I would have not played someone else's game by someone else's rules that I didn't understand and didn't realize how ignorant I was about what I didn't understand.

I'm tired GF. I'm tired of meeting demands I can't meet whether it is by my family, wife, society or employers or what not and then being told all my problem is is that I lack confidence. f**k that! f**k that noise! f**k our BS culture that places demands upon demands more and more ppl can't meet.

Maybe this is why we have more suicides, more school shootings, and we have more stupid challenges like the tide pod challenge. And, the future will be worse and written in more blood. I wrote this long ago if you care to read it. https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=244016

I think I told you this story before.

I once played a poker game with one of my brothers and our neighbour. Neighbour was the best player but was out first. I was almost out and our neighbor encouraged me to make a suicide bet just to lose and end the game so we could start another. We were playing Texas Holdem with a 500 chip set. I was down to 1 chip to my brothers 499. I won that game - all 500 chips. (And the $15 pot) It doesn’t matter how few chips you have, it’s how you play the game.. and I’m a never give up all in kind of guy. It’s just my nature.

Why can’t you accept that some of us play the game differently than you and are determined to achieve our goals despite what the statistical probability of success is? Is it because of the cliche phrase “misery loves company,” and if you’re not achieving your goals others shouldn’t bother trying to pursue theirs? Is that what sort of response you’re fishing for? Because I’m most certainly not about to say “Ah, you know what? Cube’s right. These goals are hard to achieve and many people who set out to achieve them, even NT’s, don’t.. so, f**k it, I’m not gonna bother even trying.” Nope, not at all.

agree

I'm not just going by stats. I'm going by other factors as well. Factors are but not limited to





d. my strengths (intelligent, logical, rational, my INTP personality type)

e. my weaknesses (detailed oriented, concentration problems, executive functioning, (my personality type)

f. opportunities (voc rehab, briggs associates, autism center)

g. threats (employer and societal demands, including social and personality, limited services and assistance, positivity philosophy, pull oneself by his bootstraps philosophy). As an aside the whole pull oneself didn't mean what it means today. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pull_one ... bootstraps


h. my personal experiences and how I interpret my personal experiences through my neurology

i. stats of course



Like I said, I tried. I did differing things. I was going to do a computer repair business but I ran into walls that I didn't understand how to overcome. I was positive for a time.

And, why can't you (meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) accept that some of us literally can't play the game and it is not our attitude our lack of confidence is the problem. And, why can't you (meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) accept that quitting is a legitimate move and is a rational move to a game one doesn't understand and others will or can not explain in any kind of depth? And, why can't you (meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) accept that telling someone just to be confident and positive doesn't work for some people and those people need specific assistance and guidance? Why can't you (meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) accept that people think differently then you and a different approach is needed for differently thinking person? Have you (meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) ever considered that positive thinking and simply being confident is an ineffective strategy for some people and doesn't work for some people?

https://www.amazon.com/Positive-Power-N ... 0465051391

If you(meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) want me to not give up then all you(meaning others with your beliefs not just specifically you) have to do is to explain in logical and rational terms why I should not by helping me to come up with a comprehensive plan that makes logical sense.

You keep using the phrase “advice and guidance,” or something to that effect as what you require from others in order to be successful at <insert thing>. What exactly do you mean by that and what are your expectations of others in terms of what you want them to provide you in order to enable you to be successful?

Ok Gf, when it comes to employment especially in IT I'm missing specific details. Here in lies the kicker. I don't know what details I am missing so I can't answer your question. But, maybe I can describe my experiences and maybe my issues will be made clear and you can help me to fill in gaps. First, I did have jobs but I never had to search for them on my own. They were handed to me through circumstances that is outside of myself or as some would say by grace of God. When I tried to look for an IT job on my own my first issues was this. I could not think of the words for the name of the position I was applying for. It took a month to realize after reverse engineering what to type into a search engine. Once I was able to understand the correct terminology the next issue I encountered which I still encounter to this day was that each job required x amount of skills and each skill required y years of experience. Even in the entry level positions it was the same. Oh, I forgot before all of that I didn't even know where to look as I didn't know what the job search sites were called. Again, I had to reverse engineer this as well.

When I started applying to positions at these job sites like monster.com, usa jobs, etc, etc and even craigslist for the most part I heard nothing back. And then the jobs would a lot of times would have personality tests and the structure of those tests leave room to be desired. Their logical structure is contradictory and makes no f*****g sense. In addition, it forces you to upload a resume and then you still have to fill out the work history. You have to sit there and copy and paste and make sure everything is picture perfect as the upload messes it up. And then it takes 2 to 2.5 hours to do this. By the time I'm done with doing this I only get about 3 - 4 submissions done yet I'm told I need to swamp the battlefield. How? How do I do that?

And, then I don't hear anything back for the most part and the 2-3 who I did interview with I didn't get the job with them. So, about 100s of submissions with results being no response and the interviews I did receive I bombed yet I don't understand what I did wrong.

Now, I've applied to non IT positions as well when that was suggested to me even but not limited to working at publix, janitor or being a bell hop at a hotel. Again, nothing nada. Apparently, though one can be considered overqualified and that could be why I can't get a job a somewhere like Publix as a bag boy.

Obviously, I'm doing things wrong and looking at things wrong but I don't know what as no one will sit down to explain anything. So, I'm stuck and I've been stuck on SSDI for 10 years. Others say the same thing you said. I need confidence, more of a positive attitude. No, I don't. I need comprehensive assistance, guidance and support from others to walk me through step by step what I need to do. In fact, I even tried to see if I could get into pest control yet I was frustrated by the scant information out there as to what to do to get into that.

As for doing computer repair. The issues I had was knowing exactly how much to charge and how to answer the question of how long it would take to repair it. I have no f*****g clue how long it will take to repair it.

I've tried to work it out for 10 years myself and make guesses here and there but all I'm doing is stumbling around in the dark trying to work out what I'm supposed to do. If I haven't gotten it in 10 years and I'm 38 which is almost half my life span then what? Keep trying? How? How do I keep trying?

And, I've been told to look it up online. I've done that. The information is scant.

Information on the internet is scant? It takes a month to figure out keywords like “programmer,” or “software engineer.”?

No one is going to draw a flow chart of how to take a piss.

The processes really are as simple as others describe. Read job ad, respond to it with resume and cover letter, follow up with potential employer, be offered or request an interview, convey to them why you would be a valuable addition to their team, joint it, do work, get paid etc.

Like you’re acknowledgement of ASS-P’s college dreams, IMO you’re putting the cart before the horse and you’d be better off directing your efforts towards your own health until you’re well enough to function in a work place.

And don’t tell me it can’t be done, that there’s no way to improve one’s outlook, mental health, depression, anxiety, asd symptoms etc because I’ve done it.

You just confirmed everything for me. I can really see why ASS-P has issues with you. The behavior you're displaying to me right now with this post is condescending and extremely dismissive. (I hope I didn't break any rules and if I did the mods won't be to upset.) What you need to understand is not everyone thinks like you just like I have to truthfully understand not everyone thinks like me. I don't think like you. We're aspies but our neurologies, personalities, experiences and our perceptions do have differences to each other. One of the key aspects of aspergers is deficiencies in theory of mind which means we have deficient " ability to attribute mental states—beliefs, intents, desires, pretending, knowledge, etc.—to oneself, and to others, and to understand that others have beliefs, desires, intentions, and perspectives that are different from one's own. "

I have differing beliefs then you and vice versa. I have differing knowledge and understanding then you and again vice versa. GF, I'm really trying to understand what you say from your point of view. But, because of my deficiencies in theory of mind I have difficulty conceptualizing your perception and point of view. To me, it simply makes no sense to me. This whole focus on positivity and emotions to me is illogical beyond belief. But, I will accept that I don't understand every aspect of reality and existence and reality and truth is multi-faceted. I do and so maybe my perception and view is but a partial view of reality and existence. Would you be willing to simply accept the same thing and not be dismissive and condescending? I will make an effort and endeavor to do the same thing.

I accept that we’re different. You’re a quitter and I live my life by the Tough Mudder mantra of “There is no quit in here.”

I also believe that everything happens for a reason, but that sometimes we don’t know what that reason is yet. I believe each of us happens for a reason, too. It is possible that people like you exist to serve as examples to people like me why we exist and must not allow ourselves to be defeated & will do whatever is necessary to overcome insurmountable odds and succeed or die trying.

It went up to between 16-17 Celsius in Victoria today. I believe they set a record high there.

Well if everything happens for a reason meaning that everything is pre-determined and pre-destined then why are life lessons and examples needed whatsoever. It seems like what you're saying is that we're automotons pre-destined to our fates and pre-determined to make our decisions and if that is true then there is no free will. If there is no free will then why does there need to be a lesson or example on anything?

You're not making any sense Gf. A lot of people believe as you do as well yet claim we choose our own cirumstances and our attitude. If there is no free will then how can I choose to be positive or negative at all and my positivity and negatvity isn't simply pre-determined by fate, God, or what not?

Besides, why does there have to be this dichotomy of positvity and negativity anyway? Why is positivity considered all good in our society and negativity is considered all bad? And, why is quitting always considered a bad thing? For what end must I continue?

Robert Service wrote a poem about quitting. http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/ser ... itter.html

Looking at Service's poem why can't quitting be a form of fighting back and saying no. Sometimes one has to say no and tread his own path and beat to his own drum? For what end am I to keep going at something I can't do? Why? What is the point in the end? We all end up in the same place which is six feet under right? What will all of our accomplishments and fighting as service says mean when a billion years from now the sun will be a red giant and our Earth will be swallowed hole and we're perished for eons? What is the meaning to all of this? What is the point GF and Kraftie?

When I look around I feel like I'm but an observer observing others following a script never questioning the script itself and never once stepping outside of it.

Go read Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. Self actualization is why.

I've read it before. Why do I have to play someone else's game by someone else's rules I can't play and do not wish to play by in order to be self-actualized? Where can I go where I can truthfully be myself and true positivity and confidence and one doesn't have to put on this fake bravado of confidence and positivity. I don't want fake postivity and confidence. I wish to have genuine positivity and confidence.

Because of the stupid puritian work ethic that says I must work myself to death? Cause society says so? Cause some God says so? The third step of the pyramid says Love and Belonging. What do I have to do to obtain that love and belonging? What are the requirements for this? Conformity. I have to conform to the social standards whether I can or cannot and meet others on their terms. And, that is the other issue I have with employment and society itself. In the end, I'm forced to be positive whether the postitivity and confidence is genuine or not. And, that is the issue with your beliefs GF. You can't just arbitrarily be positive or confident. It has to be natural and genuine. To me, positive and confidence is a byproduct and not the starting point. When one treats these things as the starting point then one is forced to fake positivity and confidence whether one feels genuinely positive and confident or not. In other words, I'm forced to do a form of lying to others and to myself. I'm forced to pretend and put on an act whether it is geninue or not which is why I think our world is shallow, fake, phony, and has no depth to it. Our world has all of this tech and knowledge but lacks soul.

To simply say be posititive and confident and socially force them to do so is to treat the symptoms and not the causes.

I already explained the issues that I had with trying to obtain a job in depth both in the technical how aspect of it and the identity aspect of it. For me, it is like going through Alice's Rabbit holes. The directions you give me on how to give a job are extremely overly simplistic. And, I've followed your directions and I end up with the exact same result. Another thing, one job I did have for a week and a half that I was fired from did not fire me because I lacked confidence, was negative, or didn't believe in myself but because I was to slow. I believed in myself. Yet, I was still fired.

I even went through Voc Rehab twice (which was a mistake. they don't understand people with our disorder.) and when they sent me to work tec for a month to test me on things the results said my productivity was slow. I was inefficient. I believed in myself. I thought I was doing good. Yet, again it wasn't my attitude that f****d me up. In fact, in my report they said I had an excellent attitude. So, my attitude and lack of my belief in myself is not issue and in fact it is irrelevant to the issues at hand. In fact, I still believe I can work and function. But, the whole getting a job, playing the game, I literally can't do it without major assistance and guidance to do so. Trying to do the job applications, personality tests that accompany them, answering questions in an interview like "People in IT are usually arrogant, are you arrogant" leave room to be desired. How was I to answer that?

What will it f*****g take to get through to you that I don't think like you? That I don't process information and interpret things the same way as others. That what is simple and obvious to you is not to me. Why can't you and others f*****g accept that? I mean, your perception is just that. Your perception. None of us have the full monopoly on truth and one interpretation of a situation may not be the only valid interpretation of the situation. God, I can see why ASS-P curses you out. Dude, the temperature can be 78 and you can be cold while I'm hot. The female mod xfilesgeek said something about your theory of mind as I have. Your foot soaks obviously have not did anything about that. And, guess what my theory of mind sucks balls as well but at least I'm acknowledging that as well.