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So I posted in the infamous AS partners forum for NT's...

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YippySkippy
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23 Feb 2015, 7:40 am

Their definition of autism seems to be "any behavior we don't like".
They're using it as a catch-all diagnosis, and attributing all kinds of decidedly un-ASD actions to it.



Amity
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23 Feb 2015, 8:07 am

I agree YippySkippy. They have witnessed and experienced real observable events, but any implicit understanding of these observed behaviours is completely missing from the discussion. It reminds me of the 'square peg, round hole' mindset, the label doesn't quite fit the description, but if enough collective energy is invested they can slice and dice it until it fits. The forum needs an accurate name like ‘Partners venting therapy’/etc.



Jono
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23 Feb 2015, 9:16 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
A bad relationship is rarely the result of behaviours of one partner alone, whether one of them has a neurological condition or not. If you're going to say that AS type behaviours could lead to the NT partner being abused then you also have to explore what kinds of behaviours that the NT does in that situation that cause the AS partner feeling abused and potentially making the situation worse.


I agree that ASD does not make people more likely to be abusive.
That said,
a bad relationship and an abusive relationship are two very different things. An abusive relationship IS the result of the behaviors of one partner alone. "See what you made me do" is a typical abuser's excuse that must never be validated.


Yes, I'm aware that abusers can shift blame onto the victim by making themselves out to be the victim. However, the argument here was that it was "useful" to explore how symptomatic AS behaviours can "feel abusive". I've also seen arguments from people like elkclan and others that intentions don't matter and that if something "feels abusive", it is, regardless if it is intended or not. The trouble is, if you go by that line of reasoning, then you can apply the exact same logic to behaviours of the NT towards the AS partner that "feels abusive" to the AS partner, whether intended or not. It's not about shifting blame.



Jono
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23 Feb 2015, 9:34 pm

League_Girl wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
A bad relationship is rarely the result of behaviours of one partner alone, whether one of them has a neurological condition or not. If you're going to say that AS type behaviours could lead to the NT partner being abused then you also have to explore what kinds of behaviours that the NT does in that situation that cause the AS partner feeling abused and potentially making the situation worse.


I agree that ASD does not make people more likely to be abusive.
That said,
a bad relationship and an abusive relationship are two very different things. An abusive relationship IS the result of the behaviors of one partner alone. "See what you made me do" is a typical abuser's excuse that must never be validated.



I do believe the ASD can contribute to the abuse even though it's not a symptom. Eckln's posts are an example because she keeps posting about her aspie husband and his traits causing him to act abusive. I need to stop lying to myself and denying that being aspie can't make someone an abuser. That is like saying my ex wasn't one and the reason why he was one was because he had issues. He had trust issues, worried too much what people would think of him and he cared too much what people thought, he had low self esteem and issues with jealousy so he put others down and me and my parents to make himself feel better.

There is still no excuse for the aspies mistreating their partners rather and their abuse could be un AS related because it could be due to low self esteem, trust issues, etc. and some are just mean and it has nothing to do with their mental illness or neurological disorder.


Nobody says that aspies can't be abusive, only that the AS doesn't cause. NT's can also have factors like low self-esteem and trust issues leading them to become abusive, that kind of thing isn't limited to aspies.



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23 Feb 2015, 9:39 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Hope this link works, but this is total gold:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.a ... 2016442236

Grand Dragon posts a link to someone talking about a psychopathic partner being manipulative, and uses this as "proof" that autistic people are evil. She does say "[her husband's abusive nature] wasn't because he was an aspi" (sic), but then goes on to denigrate us all later and says (yes, this is a quote) "we have a right to hate them".

Somebody points out that the article is actually about psychopaths, who are nothing like autistic people. Grand Dragon's response:

Quote:
Honestly, a lot of us don't know what diagnosis our spouse is. Sometimes a person swears their spous is aspo, but a Psych. doesn't think so. We don't know who to believe and what to diagnose our parters as.


So, in the space of two posts, she goes from declaring that her hatred of autism is justified to admitting it is completely unfounded :lol:


You have to click on the post number at the top right hand corner of the opening post for the link to work correctly. I believe this is the thread you're talking about:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13135.1

I've also spoken about this same thing here:

http://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=275453&start=60#p6476213



YippySkippy
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23 Feb 2015, 9:46 pm

Quote:
I've also seen arguments from people like elkclan and others that intentions don't matter and that if something "feels abusive", it is, regardless if it is intended or not.


Well, that's just silly.



cubedemon6073
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23 Feb 2015, 10:17 pm

YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
I've also seen arguments from people like elkclan and others that intentions don't matter and that if something "feels abusive", it is, regardless if it is intended or not.


Well, that's just silly.


They go by their feelings instead of objective reality.



olympiadis
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24 Feb 2015, 2:06 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
I've also seen arguments from people like elkclan and others that intentions don't matter and that if something "feels abusive", it is, regardless if it is intended or not.


Well, that's just silly.


They go by their feelings instead of objective reality.


Yes, I have run into this problem often.

One of my points I was trying to make but never did was that each partner is a victim of the larger system that they are locked into, and it's sad.
As long as the larger system intelligence has us pointing blame at each other, we will never address the root problems, and the system will continue on indefinitely. :(

This is the logic of splitting, or othering, which increases in complexity over time and distracts individuals with their own private wars.



btbnnyr
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24 Feb 2015, 3:22 pm

Jono wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Quote:
A bad relationship is rarely the result of behaviours of one partner alone, whether one of them has a neurological condition or not. If you're going to say that AS type behaviours could lead to the NT partner being abused then you also have to explore what kinds of behaviours that the NT does in that situation that cause the AS partner feeling abused and potentially making the situation worse.


I agree that ASD does not make people more likely to be abusive.
That said,
a bad relationship and an abusive relationship are two very different things. An abusive relationship IS the result of the behaviors of one partner alone. "See what you made me do" is a typical abuser's excuse that must never be validated.


Yes, I'm aware that abusers can shift blame onto the victim by making themselves out to be the victim. However, the argument here was that it was "useful" to explore how symptomatic AS behaviours can "feel abusive". I've also seen arguments from people like elkclan and others that intentions don't matter and that if something "feels abusive", it is, regardless if it is intended or not. The trouble is, if you go by that line of reasoning, then you can apply the exact same logic to behaviours of the NT towards the AS partner that "feels abusive" to the AS partner, whether intended or not. It's not about shifting blame.


I recall something like this "feel bad" thing from the self-diagnosis thread in December.


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Jono
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25 Feb 2015, 7:54 am

Just in, there's a brand new post on ASPartners talking about Wrongplanet, take a look:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13135.18

First of all, she needs to learn some reading comprehension skills because what she claims that I have said in this discussion is not even close to what I actually wrote. In which post did I ever actually say that other people were responsible for us having meltdowns?

In any case, if she has managed to get Alex's attention with that little e-mail that she claims to of sent, then by all means, go ahead and read the rest of that thread that the linked to post is posted in. It will show you how they like to claim that aspies and sociopaths are one and the same thing.



cubedemon6073
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25 Feb 2015, 7:57 am

Jono wrote:
Just in, there's a brand new post on ASPartners talking about Wrongplanet, take a look:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13135.18

First of all, she needs to learn some reading comprehension skills because what she claims that I have said in this discussion is not even close to what I actually wrote. In which post did I ever actually say that other people were responsible for us having meltdowns?

In any case, if she has managed to get Alex's attention with that little e-mail that she claims to of sent, then by all means, go ahead and read the rest of that thread that the linked to post is posted in. It will show you how they like to claim that aspies and sociopaths are one and the same thing.


doesn't work



Jono
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25 Feb 2015, 8:01 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Jono wrote:
Just in, there's a brand new post on ASPartners talking about Wrongplanet, take a look:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspartners/messages/?msg=13135.18

First of all, she needs to learn some reading comprehension skills because what she claims that I have said in this discussion is not even close to what I actually wrote. In which post did I ever actually say that other people were responsible for us having meltdowns?

In any case, if she has managed to get Alex's attention with that little e-mail that she claims to of sent, then by all means, go ahead and read the rest of that thread that the linked to post is posted in. It will show you how they like to claim that aspies and sociopaths are one and the same thing.


doesn't work


Are you sure? The link works for me, I've just tested it, though it only links to the latest post, not the whole thread. So that should be the only post that shows up when you click the link. Maybe you want me to quote it?



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25 Feb 2015, 8:10 am

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When I receive an email back from that forum stating that they told their writers to stop linking our page, then I will take their name off here.


An attempt at blackmail. Classy. :lol:



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25 Feb 2015, 9:48 am

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To those of you on wrong planet reading this, get a damn job you losers and leave us alone.


Haha.

It's too bad ASpartners is closed to autistics participating. It could be productive to have a dialogue and maybe both sides could learn more about the other.



The_Walrus
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25 Feb 2015, 9:53 am

A terrible attempt at blackmail... Googling "Wrong Planet" (even without the quotes) very firmly sticks WP as the top result (and our Wikipedia, YouTube and Twitter pages). Googling "Alex Plank" similarly returns his own website, Wikipedia page, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, IMDB, LinkedIn, and, erm, Autism Speaks blog.

She may as well have threatened to burn down WrongPlanet, or systematically murder anyone who has posted in this thread.



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25 Feb 2015, 9:57 am

Can't you folks see that this is all a farce?

Just ignore that person!

That person should get a life (and get a job!), too!