Optimism and Reality: Goldfish21 Response to me

Post Reply New Topic

I did stay there for about a couple of years and I do not know if there are more disordered children or not there.

The wikipedia article did say the amount of radiation leaked was miniscule and they did keep a registration there until 1997 until they disbanded it. They had no complaints. So, this may not be a factor in my issues when I think about it but maybe my body is chemistry is unique in a way that I was affected in a way most people would not be. I don't know.

If I could prove a link I would find an attorney to go about seeing who I could sue.

An ASD friend of mine is a traveller. I’m not. He prioritized travelling the globe. I have the financial resources, but can’t be bothered. I read an article that there’s a gene that’s been identified that causes people to want to explore/travel. It was likely possessed by man of the explorers who sailed around the world centuries ago. It’s likely in the DNA of test pilots and astronauts, too.

In a similar way, it’s possible some of us are programmed to say “f**k it,” and give up on things while others of us are programmed to believe that whatever doesn’t kill me only makes me stronger & I wil Never surrender to anyone or anything, not even me & my own neurology.

Answer: Because, in the end as I have said before it doesn't matter what I believe to be true is. It only matters what is true. I could believe that all disabled children are compotent or capable and so could doctors and medical professionals. But, as you said we live in a capitalistic society. Within that, it matters what the employer (If I'm working for someone else) or my customer (If I own my own business) thinks. No matter how intelligent or knowledgable one is and no matter how much one believes in oneself it is up to employers to decide if they will hire a person or not and employers go by criteria which can be technical, social, personality, etc. We do not live in a vaccum. Contrary to what Margaret Thatcher thinks we do live in a society in which not only is life is what I make it but life is what others make it as well. We don't live in a self-directed society but an other-directed society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lonely_Crowd

I've done a mental SWOT analysis on myself listing my strengths, weaknesses and Threats. I came to the conclusion my chances of being employed are extremely low.



And, that is 100% absolutely wrong. We live in a society where others outside of oneself make decisions that impact you. Again, we do not live in a vaccum. This isn't living in the Unabomber's cabin isolated from society.



I definetely agree but what if they're not capable of being self-sufficent in the sense of holding a job or running a business? What if the best of their potential is simply being at home doing his own projects that suits his fancy? Imagine if you will, the parents of this child realizes this child will not be able to do his own business or be employed so they save up for him and he is educated and homeschooled. This child reads and reads things about science and math. As he understand math and science more he comes up with a way that improves travel around the globe through wormhole type technology. It means we can be anywhere around the globe instantaneously.

Or, he takes a liking to literature and he becomes the next best poet or author. So, why force people to go down a traditional route that more then likely they can't do? Why force them to go to college or trade school where more then likely they'll be miserable at and more then likely they would have issues with getting a job or keeping it?



I do and they're not that good.



My answer: To get our heads out of the clouds, ditch the whole positive thinking, and do more critical thinking. Positive thinking is really based in faith and faith means to accept something as true without evidence and logic to back it up. Maybe have billboards that say something along the lines of "think."



I will give you an example. The personality tests employers use. Can you explain the logical structure of them. The structure has the choices of completely agree, mostly agree, somewhat agree, neutral, somewhat disagree, mostly disagree and completely disagree.

Here is why I'm so confused by the structure. Mostly agree is a subset of somewhat agree. If I do not completely agree but I somewhat agree then it implies that I somewhat disagree.

If I completely agree it implies through entailment that I somewhat agree as well. If all of the jelly beans in a jar are red and there are 50 then 10 of them are red as well.

So, the personality test structure is inherently contradictory because they only allow one answer when multiple answers depending upon conditions are the true and correct answer.

Can you explain how to answer questions like "Do I believe that life is not fair?" For instance, why does it matter if I believe life is fair or not? Why does my belief and feeling matter?



One possibility is what I said before.



I thought about that and to be quite honest that may be the best possible case. For mainstreaming to work others including employers would have to be willing to bring them in under the umbrella. Are they willing to do that? Are employers willing to forego some of their profits. Are others in front street willing to help them in areas they need help in? Wasn't that the idea of deinstitutionalization which was the community would help integrate them? If not, then I stand by my recommendation of either what I said before or bringing back the group homes or asylums? This includes myself as well. And besides, some people are still committed anyway. If there are any other paths or ideas then I'm all ears.



No, I actually would rather tell them the truth. I would rather be told that I can't do something then to be told that I can do x and pumped up to do it and it turns out I have all of these issues and I really can't and then others think it is my lack of confidence and negative attitude that is the issue? As another analogy instead of teaching how to jump start a car the focus is on the belief I can start it.



Well, I was mainstreamed as well and I admit I had some successes and I can still succeed. And, you ask me what specific guidance I need. Well, all I can really do is tell you what I did from when I was in college until I went out. What my thoughts were and my perceptions were. It would take pages to do. I would have to dedicate time to do that ASS-P would have to do the same thing. In a sense, you might as well consider ASS-P and I like aliens from a different planet that is trying to function on a world we don't understand and the world for whatever reason can't or won't explain and break things down. In fact, in some instances we don't know what we don't understand (This is called an out of context problem or an unknown, unknown. This is what ASS-P and I are dealing with.)



Stephen Hawking had ALS and he did succeed. But, what is left out is he had others help and assist him to do including dress him and write for him. What if he didn't have these others?



Telling the truth is child abuse? I'm not just looking at stats. I'm also looking at the culture as well which is an other-directed, pull yourself by your bootstraps, figure it out yourself, type of culture in which it is extremely difficult to get assistance. And, a culture that values faith more then reason, logic and critical thinking. And, a culture which is extremely biased in which it promotes those who succeeded and not those who sunk as well and had all kinds of difficulty. If I had an adult child who needed assistance and guidance in his life from others to fit in and conform.

Look at what this family did for Dr. Morris Berman who was trying to get into Mexico? https://morrisberman.blogspot.com/2014/ ... vival.html

Can a foreigner or anyone who needs help and assistance expect the same thing here in the USA. I say no. Our internal locus of control, every man for himself type of culture, capitalistic, inhuman, heartless culture and treats everyone as commodities in a machine won't allow this. So, if I'm living in the USA with a child, looking at the stats of those with disablities plus the values and standards of our culture why wouldn't I simply save up for him (if it is possible, if not why would I have a child) through a hedge fund and free him from the burden of worrying about employment and then more then likely end up not in the labor force, miserable as could be and on SSDI anyway because he couldn't play someone else's game, conform or fit in. f**k that!



Agreed! but do they have to play by someone else's game by someone else's rules and fit in to do this when really more then likely a disabled child can't! Why can't there be a third path besides employment and running a business as I described above. Another path is, why can't they be in a monastery or something like that? Your way is not the only way dude. Do I want my child to be employed somewhere where he has to play some else's social game quaking in fear that he will f**k up somehow and be fired or fear being fired for some arbitrary reason or would I want him to be in a set of circumstances where he can be himself or herself and not have to pretend to be something one is not and sell his or her soul to fit in when really the real world really is but temporary? Nothing lasts forever and neither does this world.

GF and Kraftie. I've been thinking about my entire life from as far back as I could remember through my college years until now and asked myself when was I the happiest? And, when did I become the most depressed? The answer that I have I think is very enlightening. The times that I was happiest was when I was able to be myself and didn't two s**ts what anyone else thought. And that was the time before I hit puberty. And, the 2nd time was when I worked on personal projects just for myself. I didn't have to worry about deadlines or having to meet social standards I could never meet or to have energy as employers like Richard Branson demand today. Where can I go where I can be myself and be in my own natural element instead of having to "fit in"and believe me I have tried.?

Your second last post is far too long for my to quote and reply to on my phone. (MacBook out of commission right now.)

It sounds like you’re projecting your life’s experiences upon a hypothetical child and saying you’d tell them not to bother trying in order to prevent them from experiencing the hurt and frustration you have; to protect them. Thing is, what if that kid has a gift? What if that child could have achieved something great for the world? Or even just for them? And then through a childhood of caution, negativity, reverse-affirmations for lack of a better term, that child may not ever have the confidence to try and do things for themselves or to try and achieve some thing that they otherwise may have excelled at. You assuming you’re protecting a child from emotional upset and frustration if they don’t succeed could be damaging to their life beyond comprehension. Even by statistics, so what if 80% of kids with said hypothetical child’s hypothetical diagnosis don’t succeed, what if this particular child is in the 20% that do? Or better yet, the top 5 or even 1%? Now you just squashed that potential with a lifetime of psychological abuse telling them they can’t do something - and that, I think, is wrong.

I have a place here like that. It’s the beach I go to almost daily. I was there over 100 evenings for sunset last year and have been down there more this Winter and now early Spring than ever as I start my 4th year going there.

It’s a beautiful beach with amazing sunsets. It’s at the university so theres uni kids and even some proffs. There’s hippies, drummers, various musicians, artists, singers, dancers, skimboarders, slack liners, yogis, frisbee fans, gay people, trans people, business owners, regular working people, people on disability/welfare, can collectors, and a few who are.. “not right.” (delusional schizophrenic perhaps) but so long as people are peaceful and respectful of others and the place then all are welcome. Plus it’s a nude beach so half or so are naked in the Sun all Summer. Every kind of misfit tends to just blend right in and the beach is nearly 8km long so one could take a hike away from the main beach and have solitude, too. It’s the most open and accepting place I’ve ever been. Granted, if people are rude/annoying/difficult with others or being creepy at all then they may be made to leave - it’s not a free for all anarachy for totally out of line behaviours. But in general it’s a really tranquil place and I think a lot of people with various personal “demons,” end up there because they’re able to feel better balanced by what psychologists are now calling “blue space,” - the positive effects of the Sun and sight & sounds of the ocean.

There’s gotta be somewhere where all types congregate in your area, no? If not, just go to any beach and find a place to be by yourself. It’s incredibly difficult not to feel good at a beach.

I will respond to your other post later. I've been to the beach. I love it. I love it. I love it. I will warn you though if the ocean current is strong and you're not a good swimmer don't go in the ocean. In FL and I think St. Simon Island in Ga you can pick up sand dollars and starfish. I've seen some people fish and catch crabs and St. Simon. I would love to learn how to catch crabs and fish.

Do you have to use Sunblock with high SPF rating? I do. I have to use 100 or I have to keep my shirt on. One time, I did pass by a homeless man by the beach who played awesome guitar. 100 evenings? You actually track the number of evenings you go? cool!

If you're happy in your situation, Mr. Cube, then why change it?

As long as you don't constantly ask me for money, I'm okay with your choice of lifestyle.

I've been friends with people on benefits. One is a very bright man who has a diagnosis of schizophrenia in his background. He's been able, over the years, to make a good amount of money by being a process-server and "personal assistant." He collected benefits for a while (and maybe during gaps in employment, though I don't know for sure).

I might be able to be a process-server should it become necessary--but I can be nobody's "personal assistant." I know my "limitations."

I'm not going to dampen someone's dreams by stating: "You have little chance of success because study X stated that 80% of people with Asperger's have no steady employment."

As for me, I can't live that sort of lifestyle. It's just not for me. I could be a process-server--but there's actually a physical risk within this choice of occupation, since there are people who don't like to be served legal papers by somebody.

Forget about being a "personal assistant." It's similar to being somebody being a "bootlicker."

What's going on with your mac?



You damn right I would be. If I can create my child a better life why wouldn't I instead of forcing this hypothetical child to play someone else's game they can't play?




Well, what if they did have a gift? So, why can't one make it to where they can truthfully shine by having it to where they don't have to work in today's workplace? Wouldn't it make more sense to save up for a child who is gifted and have it to where they can live to where they can pursue their ambitions their way instead of Mr. Employer's way who demands energy, confidence, eye contact, firm handshakes etc etc that some of us can't do? If one can't save up and is not in a position to save up then I have to question whether one should have a child or not. Maybe they could still go to college but instead of employment why not pursue what one wants to pursue instead of being employed.

Another thing, even if I'm wrong in this paragraph let's say the child has a gift. If employers won't hire him then what good is his gift? So, why put this child into this position in the first place? How does that even make sense?



And if they need assistance and guidance in certain aspects of life will they receive it from his community? I say no.






And, have them play someone else's game that they have an extreme low chance of success in? Why not change the game for the hypothetical child under what I discussed before? Why force him into an environment in which he/she is forced to be something one is not? Why not create an environment the child can succeed in? Imagine if the child was supported through this trust fund, took some computer courses online and was able to invent a new software program and hard drive one can do a virus scan in secs. Let's say I force my child into employment and he is unable to get a job or he gets fired left and right or he is forced into multiple low paying jobs to make ends meet, then what? Try again and again. Why? What good was his gift?

Again, cube, you’re projecting your reality onto other people. (Real people or hypothetical.)

Fact: I have the same label of a disability that you do.

Also fact: My reality is different than yours. My thoughts are different. My potential is different. What’s realistically possible for me to achieve is different.

But if I lived my life according to your statistics I’d have never achieved 1/10th of the things I have nor would I be working towards other goals I’ll achieve in the future. Clearly I’m not going to begin living my life the way you suggest people with disabilities ought to because that is not the path for me.

Same same applies to hypothetical offspring. Even a child of your own may have a dramatically different potential than yourself & should never be discouraged because you make the assumption that their experience of reality and their potential etc is the same as yours.

Here’s a real world example for you:

I am the sum of my parents, as we all are. My parents are not thrill seeking risk takers. My father is a slow and steady working my provider type. Nothing wrong with that, but I am not the same as him. I harness myself to a giant kite and surf on the ocean. My parents are not stupid people, but I have a far greater capacity for academic achievement than the two of them combined. Neither of them are all that interested in the things I’ve studied or will study, for one, but I also doubt they’d be able to get through such studies. My potential for these things is far greater than my parents’. Not to insult them, it just is what it is, simple fact.

They’ve never been the type to tell me I can’t do something or that I’m to follow in my father’s footsteps etc and I’m grateful for that. If they did I’d know they were wrong and disagree with them, anyways.

My point is that not all people with a disability are destined to failure & children do not necessarily think like their parents nor have the same potential as them.

Hell, even your own statistics prove this. In order for there to be an average some people have to be way above it while others fall below. In order for 2/3rds not to succeed, 1/3rd must succeed. Etc etc.

If statistical probabilities of success/failure help ease your mind, that’s fine, but don’t project them onto everyone else simply because we’re all disabled. Same goes for children, even your own.

And I’m sure you’ve heard this before, too: Stop comparing yourself to others and only compare yourself to who you used to be/your own potential. If you’re truly doing all that you can do to the best of your abilities then that’s all that matters.

As for employment etc well, that’s the way our economy works. People have to eat, so, people work. If someone has an alternative way to provide for themselves via one off project work that pays well, or subsistence farming, or w/e by all means have at it to your heart’s content. Most people simply do as most others do and work a job in order to pay their bills. That’s why others generally push people towards that common familiar path to providing for one’s own needs.

Last edited by goldfish21 on 18 Mar 2018, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dude, there's only one reality and it is independent of one's thoughts. Try this. Believe with all your might and being you can walk through wall. Jump off of a mountain and see if you can fly.



And?



Yeah, our thoughts



Ok, I'll tell you what. You sit down with a disabled person in your area and help them achieve their goals. Provide tips. Review their resume. Help them to do the job application and keep up with everything. Help them with the personality tests. Show them how to do a budget, etc, etc. Put up or Shut up!

Same same applies to hypothetical offspring. Even a child of your own may have a dramatically different potential than yourself & should never be discouraged because you make the assumption that their experience of reality and their potential etc is the same as yours.

See above!

Here’s a real world example for you:



Again, see above!



Again, see above!




I never said all.



You've made my point for me. Thank you.



Ok, but don't force positivity down others throat if you're not willing to put on your own rubber gloves and guide them through.



Which is of no help to me.



I understand that. Not everyone can play the game! Why can't you accept that reality and get off your high horse?

I can drive because I was shown how to drive not because I simply believe I can drive. I have high confidence in my ability to drive cause b/c it was explained to me by an awesome instructor what info I was missing. Maybe confidence will get you to start but it won't get you very far if one has details missing. GF, you're extremely intelligent. You got to see this as f*****g truth don't you. Contrary to the Bible says a mountain will not move if you ask it.

False, cube. I’ve pointed it out before. Perception is reality. I used an example of driving over a local bridge in the rain and how the very same trip could be perceived entirely differently depending on one’s frame of mind. I explained how we could both be travelling in the same car and have different experiences of the very same reality.

Here’s some stats I once learned, whether they’re true or not I don’t know for sure but they illustrate a point very well: Apparently at any given moment we have an average of 13 Million pieces of data available to us, yet we have the capacity to process only 150 pieces of data per second. The 150 data points I process may be entirely different than the person next to me. Even though we are in the same room we have different experiences of that moment, different reactions to the data, and different memories formed. This is also why eye witness accounts of the same event can vary so wildly.

Again, you frustratingly use the word “guidance,” without specifically stating what it is you want me or others to “put up,” and actually do. It seems to be a vague catch-all word you use to blame others for your own inability to complete a task.

I think I understand what you're saying. You're saying that we don't have access to reality but only our perceptions to reality. Because, we have only access to our own perceptions this in turn until told or shown other wise becomes our defacto reality. Is that right or am I at least on the right track?



Ok, what I need is other people's perception's of the work place including what one does to get one? Like, what does one do to get an IT job, plumbing elderly care, etc,etc? Is there anything that one is supposed to do besides apply, interview, go to school or training? I feel like I'm missing steps that are obvious to you and others but I can't pinpoint them.

Not exactly.

Everyone’s own perception is their own reality. Of course people can learn new things or have a different perspective brought to their attention, but reality remains relative to the individual observer.

The basic processes are pretty much the same for the acquisition of virtually any job in any field. The part you’re missing is social intuition because you’re autistic. Personally, I’ve found that treatment via diet and probiotics helps turn these circuits on. In my experience, without treating these symptoms in the ways I do, one remains socially “unplugged.”

These are probiotics right? https://www.google.com/search?q=probiot ... e&ie=UTF-8

Dude, I think you're right about the social intuition thing. Maybe that's what I can't articulate to you. I think most people get the answers I'm looking for through relationships and they're able to do that through intuition. Intuition is not based in reason and logic.

I still got to go through some of your links. They're alot.

Yes, those are probiotics. Beneficial gut bacteria.

As a human being we are approx 11 Trillion cells. Of those we are roughly 1 Trillion human cells and the remaining ~90% of what we are, by cell count, is mostly bacteria and most of those bacteria are in our digestive tract.

Modern medicine is only now starting to learn about the gut microbiome and it’s influence on the rest of our health and well being.

IMO You can’t possibly tell me that 90% of what we are doesn’t matter.

Autistics have been found to lack certain strains of gut bacteria as well as has a limited variety. It’s been my personal experience that consuming a lot of probiotics, in combination with diet and other things I do, gets an array of otherwise dead circuits firing and functioning much more how they ought to. Social things that I used to only be able to do by what’s described by Dr. Tony Attwood as “intellectual processing,” come naturally and intuitively. I’ve been beating this same drum on these forums for 4 1/2 years.