First time in history!! !! The NT/AS open hotline ! !! !! !

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Thank you for your consideration, all who have replied. I'll try different methods and see what happens.

I think the answer to your question is complex. Many of us (NTs that is) find indirect speech amusing, or at least pleasing. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that we are generally more fond of novelty than people on the spectrum are. We like to be seen as interesting -- and "interesting" often translates to finding new ways of saying something. For example, I once heard someone express his inability to do something (I forget what it was that he couldn't do) by saying "I felt like a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest". Most of the NT's I know found that hilarious. That's why most of us love figures of speech so much -- we are strongly attracted to the idea of a novel, interesting way of saying something. Someone who is very literal and direct in their speech may be seen as "boring".

Perhaps it's the same phenomenon that leads many NTs to love poetry. (I realize that some people on the autism spectrum love poetry too but is it possible that the source of the enjoyment is different? I don't know.)

I think most NTs don't even realize that there are intelligent people that have trouble understanding indirect speech. So, if you seem smart, they'll simply assume you'll get it when they speak very figuratively.

Sometimes, the answer IS politeness -- but I'll try to go into more detail than just that one-word answer. I think that most of us have such a strong desire to avoid hurting someone else's feelings that we tend to avoid telling someone the "blunt truth". The classic example of the wife in a clothing store asking her husband how she looks in a new pair of jeans: The husband may be thinking "Oh God PLEASE don't buy those. Those pants look HORRIBLE on you", but if he is wise he won't say that. He'll say "You look ok in those, but I think some of the other pants you've looked at are better."

Since people do that so often, most NTs interpret negative statements as being even worse than a strictly literal interpretation would suggest. If the husband says "Those pants look horrible on you", the wife may interpret it to mean something like "I don't care about your feelings anymore and I think you're ugly." -- even though a strictly literal interpretation is a comment only about the pants and not the wife. It's as though NTs play the "spare people's feelings" game so much that we tend to assume everyone else does too and an overly blunt statement is interpreted as worse than it really is.

We're not hopeless about that, though. I have a son with Asperger syndrome and I have been able to re-adjust my interpretation of his more blunt statements so that I am never offended by anything he says.

You raise a very important point in that direct honesty is seen as more impolite because whitelying is favored by almost everyone.

I hadn't seen you in a while and I'm glad to see you back, RudolfsDad. And thanks a million for your time and investment in this thread. We largely appreciate it. Feel free to ask any questions of your own as well as they come up.

i have a lot of trouble with that,
it seems i say all the time things that appear to mean something for NT's, even my husband who now knows me for 20 years, still interpretes my sentences like that quite often. We now are both aware of it happening, but it took us a long time.

The trouble is I can in no way learn how it works cause it's always about another sentence, the only thing i can do is, when i see it happen ,reassure him it is not meant in another way than what i literally said and talk it over again together.
This is especially difficult cause my husband is hyper sensitive, meaning that he is even more emotionally than regular NT's (yeah we're quite a combination )

"Why do many NT people not say what they think and say what they do not think?"

I agree with Rudophdad that this is a complex question. There are probably many reasons, here are a few.

One main reason has to do with context, for example what the subject is about. In Rudolphdad's example, if the subject is personal like "does this item of clothing look good on me?" that's a personal question and many people would tend not to answer directly especially if the answer is likely to embarass or hurt the asker's feelings. On the other hand, there are very impersonal subjects like, "how's the weather?" which are more likely to elicit a direct answer. So I think context is really important, and people tend to be guarded in revealing their true feelings in certain contexts.

Another complicating factor is taboo subjects, which tend to be different in different geographic areas, with different segments of the population, and they also change over time. An easy example is sex. It might be ok to discuss sexuality very openly in a place like downtown New York city, but this would not be ok in a very conservative small rural town. Since its almost impossible to tell which subjects are taboo to a person until (1) you get to know better, or (2) you learn the hard way, its safer to avoid directness, avoid important subjects, and make small talk. In a way, this is why flirting can be fun because it can be like a game trying to get to know another person's hot buttons and while revealing your own. Taboo subjects can include family, politics, religion, sexuality, human rights, animal rights, diagnoses, the pimple on my chin, a scar, etc. etc. etc. You just never know.

i think you have expressed it very well here !
we Aspies are of course aware of the different opinions about it, that's why we have trouble with it

also i am too subject focussed(and not person focussed) to be aware of the person's feelings all the time,
often i only get aware of the fact people are there too where my subject is when something unexpected happens, i then look up to see what it was and surprise surprise ... it's a human being !

lemon, that's an accurate description of me, in stand-up comedy style.

Dave, could you give a few more examples of taboo subjects? I think that where you write "etc. etc." NTs can extrapolate, and Aspies not as affected in the ToM area too, but I'm a zero at that...

Hi Greentea,

Below is a list of potential taboo subjects that could possibly cause discomfort such as embarrasment during interpersonal communications. This is by no means a comprehensive list, it only includes some examples I could think of in a short time, so I am open to suggestions. Come to think of it, one could write a book on this subject and I am open to collaboration (and 50% of the profits ). Also, I emphasized the word "potential" because as lemon wrote, you just never know. Some people may be very open to discussing politics in a tolerant and level-headed way, and some people are so stubborn that you should not discuss politics with them. The point is it that it is nearly impossible to correctly guess all of the subjects that may cause another person discomfort, but there are some common taboo subjects listed below. The only way to find out about an individual's taboo subjects for certain, if you are so inclined, is to communicate with them. This is why it is helpful to become adept at small talk for situations when you must deal with someone you wouldn't ordinarily chose to, like a teacher, doctor, grocery clerk, banker, or receptionist. Tact is whole other topic.

Politics, religion, sexuality, human rights, animal rights, medical diagnoses, sexuality, birth control, age, height, weight, marital status, income level, diet, grey hair color, nose shape, occupation, education level, physical health, mental health, family members, living quarters, teeth, breath odor, body odor, type of friends they hang out with, hobbies, type of books they like to read, burping, flatulence, other bodily functions.

Remember, the reason these are potentially taboo is because talking about them may cause another person discomfort, for example bringing attention to someone's grey hair may cause them embarrasment. Another thing to remember is that noone is born with taboo subjects. Taboo subjects are taught at an early age by one's parents, teachers, friends, and culture into which they were raised. Everyone has taboo subjects.

I'm not saying I like it this way. Personally, I prefer direct, open, and honest communication without beating about the bush*. I abhor small talk, and I try to avoid vain and superficial people as much as possible. But sometimes you have to deal with people just to survive. Its human nature. Also, I've come to learn that some vain and superficial people are only acting this way to avoid embarrasing me, and it is my own prejudice that gets in the way of connecting.

Lastly, here's some food for thought. Definition of a friend: Someone with whom you can communicate without having to worry about taboo subjects.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Its an interesting question and certainly worthy of discourse. Hope this helps!


* Idiom that means avoiding direct communication by making small talk.

Thank you, Dave. I'll take your list very much in mind!

Most welcome Greentea. May I send a PM?

Of course.

To add to that, here are some other things that can get you into social trouble:

Going into too much detail, especially when someone has asked you not to.
Repeating things.
Telling someone on the phone that whoever lives with you cannot come to the phone because they are going to the bathroom.
Pointing at people.
Talking about people when they are in earshot, which is something I think Aspies have a difficult time defining, so assume people nearby are within earshot.
Whispering loudly, again people can hear you, even if you think they can't.
Going to the bathroom/flusging the toilet when on the phone or with the bathroom door open when others are on the phone nearby.
Passing gas forcefully.
Passing gas without saying "excuse me."
Picking your nose when others are around, even if you don't think they can't see you because you're behind them -- people may turn around quickly and see you.
Incessantly questioning people about something they say that you don't agree with. (It's hard to always be on trial.)
If you really want to know what's not acceptable, read a book on manners. If you really want to score Brownie points, Aspie or NT, read a book on manners and follow suit! Emily Post wrote the Bible on manners.

I hope this is helpful.

Guilty.

Thank you very much, Susie, this is all very helpful!

And welcome aboard and to this thread ! !!

To an NT:

I often find that I am unable to understand social cues to the point where everyone is constantly mocking me. People say certain things when they mean other things and give me subliminal cues that I'm unable to pick up on. When I interact in a social situation people can be aggressive toward me because I am "missing something." What is is that and I'm missing? What am I not picking up on and can I learn to pick it up?

Best question ever ! !! !! !! It's just what I need too. From my own observation, research and findings, I think that people mock us / get angry because we seem to be playing dumb. Why? Because what's hinted that we don't get is the "unacceptable" part. This happens to me several times a day, every day, even though nowadays I'm a goddess of wisdom compared to how stupid I was all my life.

Eg: I just came back from a consultation with the surgeon who had to operate on my father's eye. He refused to operate, because my father is old and it might be a bad spot in his immaculate CV. But since surgeons are forbidden to refuse when there's no medical reason to, they give you an excuse. You're then supposed to pretend that you believe the excuse, but at the same time you're supposed to act on the fact that he refused - ie. you're not supposed to continue a medical relationship with them, they rejected you as a patient. I was talking to him, however, as if he was still my father's doctor and asking about after the operation, when we'd be back to him, etc. This made him mad, because he thought I was playing dumb and not taking the hint that he.doesn't.want.old.people.as.patients.period. I only realized that we'd been rejected as his patient after I left the clinic and checked (as I always do after an interaction with a person) what I might have missed that might have been hinted.

Always check for the "unacceptable" part - that's what we're missing, because that's what is only hinted. It's hinted because direct speech is a commitment. I could've reported him for refusing to operate on an old person.