What are 'NTs'?

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12 Aug 2009, 4:29 pm

To me, being NT means being socially pretty normal without having to make a lot of effort to blend in, and not having to make a lot of effort to understand what is going on around you. And if there is something unusual, the ability to hide it.

Of course it is a generalisation as all such statements are, Im sure there are quite a few NTs that struggle a lot with an aspect of themselves that is outside the norm.

Also I think that sometimes some NTs get tired of blending in and long to stand out from the crowd. My counsellor told me this.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Aug 2009, 5:26 pm

Janissy wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Only celebrities fit this profile. And even they have to do a lot of career maintenance if they don't want the job offers to dry up.

There are plenty of people who have this kind of life. It's common. It's what's considered to be "normal" and not a lifestyle of a priviledged type like a celebrity. Many NTs live this way because they have plenty of friends and when you have them you tend to be in demand socially which means you get job offers, invitations, dates. People want you around. It's what being an NT means.

[

I absolutely disagree that there are plenty of people who have this life. I think you are making a lot of unfounded assumptions based on the accurate observation that NTs socialize more easily. Yes, they do. But the things you think automatically spring from that...don't.

You'd be surprised just how many people have friends and are well liked. I'm not sure what your situation is, if you have lots of friends and people like to be with you and invite you places. It's not uncommon for people to have a lot of friends. It's uncommon for someone like me, yes, but not for others. Do you honestly think it's normal to be alone all the time, not be very popular and not be invited to go places with others because they like being around you and trust you? It's not most people's reality, regardless if it's normal or not. NTs lives revolve around this sort of stuff. They thrive on it, aren't unhappy with it. A true NT likes being around others.

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12 Aug 2009, 6:01 pm

CyclopsSummers wrote:

-Vorzac- wrote:

'Neurotypicality' is a social (hahahaha) construct create so people can pigeon hole anyone who is remotely different from them and use it to justify their polarised 'Us/Them' mentality.

Yet, interestingly enough, 'neurotypical' is a word that was invented by the autistic community. It's not something that non-autistics themselves came up with. 'Neurotypical' is similar to the word 'goyim', really (ignoring the etymology of that word); it's a word that doesn't describe a category of people with a certain trait, it describes a large group of people that LACKS a trait, i. c. a spectrum disorder. So in this case, 'we' were the ones making the distinction.

The term 'neurotypical' has absolutely no meaning to a person who doesn't have anything to do with autism except maybe read about every 3 years or so in a newspaper article. People who aren't on the spectrum or don't know anyone on the spectrum. A lot of people in this world either don't know what ASDs are, or just view them in the light of all brain disorders. The spectrum doesn't apply to non-autistics.

I'm liking this post a lot. Two thumbs up from me.

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12 Aug 2009, 6:19 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

Only celebrities fit this profile. And even they have to do a lot of career maintenance if they don't want the job offers to dry up.

I'm not disputing NTs having lots of friends. I am NT and have lots of friends. What I'm disputing is everything else that you assumed was a natural offshoot of having lots of friends and socializing easily; specifically multiple job offers without even applying, multiple marriage proposals, lots of cash and so many invites that conflicts are frequent. THAT'S what I disputed, not the existence of many friends. Oh, and I also disputed that this leads to being happy most of the time. If that was true, Prozac and the anti-depressants wouldn't be such big sellers.

I don't dispute lots of friends. I dispute everything else that you put in your post which you think naturally arises from lots of friends but it doesn't.

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12 Aug 2009, 6:37 pm

People with lots of friends, "social" people tend to do better. It's the networking thing. If you can handle the chaos that comes with it, it makes life a lot easier. Multiple job offers do go to popular, friendly people because that's the type most want to work with. Someone who's cheerful and able to put people at ease.
If you are have what it takes to be well liked you do get more of the "people" stuff (stuff that happens because of other people rather than your own merits unless the merits involve getting along well with others or g.a.w.w.o. the abbreviated version). Most people want to marry a secure, well adjusted partner. People associate better adjustment with being able to keep friends and g.a.w.w.o.
It facillitates success in life and access to mutiple jobs often means good money.

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12 Aug 2009, 6:50 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I know I can't convince you but I'll say it just once more and then give up.

No. This stuff does not fall into the lap of people with lots of friends. I am one of those people. This does not happen. You may imagine that it happens because it makes intuitive sense but it DOESN'T. Multiple job offers happen only during boom times and only to those who apply to multiple places. In bust times (like now) each job has hundreds of applicants and the most sociable NT in the world hears "no" constantly as their bank account runs out.

Multiple marriage proposals? No. Just no. You are assuming that these things are the fallout of poularity and they aren't. But you won't believe me even though I am one of the people you are supposedly referring to. Oh well.

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12 Aug 2009, 6:53 pm

I've had people laugh in my face when I tell them I have to apply for jobs. I know for a fact not everyone applies, some get offers. I've had people say "You mean you have to apply for a job?" Meaning they don't have to go in cold and apply somewhere. They get refered by their friends or someone their parents know, friends of the family. Someone says to them if they want to work where they do and they say "yes" or "no" whatever it is they want. Where I live this is common.

Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 12 Aug 2009, 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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12 Aug 2009, 6:56 pm

Say what you like about Aspies, but we sure are Stubborn.

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13 Aug 2009, 12:00 am

Janissy wrote:

Tantybi wrote:

Magneto wrote:

One probelm with the herding instinct defining NTs: I know several 'NTs' who don't form into cliques/herds/etc. As I said in another post, perhaps humanity is better grouped into followers, leaders, and those who are neither (in social things). 'NTs' as complained about here would fit the follower or leader types, and Aspies would tend to fall into the 'neither' category, not being led or leading.

Just to clarify, I never said the herding instinct defines NTs. I said it is supposedly a neurotypical trait that I think many AS and ASD are capable of having themselves. In other words, I think it is part of human instinct that AS tend to handle a little different than NT.

Also keep in mind there is more to the herding instinct than small groups. People change from going to small groups to big groups, and so does that instinct. Look at technology. How many people now have cell phones? I promise you I was alive 15 years ago, and it was something only the rich had. Cells were total luxuries. Now a days, they are necessities. Not because of pricing so much as everybody has one. It's more than just wanting what someone else has. There are just certain things many people want because they don't want to be left out. This is just one lousy example that I came up with from the top of my mind. A better one might be cussing. Most people say it's bad and have no idea why. It's the social norm we blindly follow. That doesn't mean we don't cuss, but many on here will try to clean up their language for children..even Aspies do it. That's something we do because we are strictly following the herd. Nobody knows why the words are bad. They just accept that they are. I've even seen some people speculate on this forum if torture was socially acceptable and normal that everybody would be doing it. You see that in times of the Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, Salem Witch Trials, etc. Things were normal back then that wouldn't be normal now, and everybody was doing it. Some feared death of course, but many were just blindly following the herd on it.

I don't think that cell phones are an example of herding. I think people get them because of pricing, not because everybody else has one. Cell phones are superior to landline phones. Even if they had absolutely no features beyond what you get in a landline phone, their mere portability makes them superior. Pricing made a superior product available to everybody. When something that is objectively a superior product gets snapped up as soon as its affordable, I don't think that's herding. I think that's just good sense.

I'll agree with you on language, though. The meaning of words is just a group agreement and linguistic leaders can get other people to agree to a change without their even realizing it has happened. "Gay" used to mean "happy". Linguistic leaders started using it to mean "homosexual" and now that has just become what it means.

I think a mob is the scariest example of a human herd. A mob is a crowd on a mission. And that mission is set by those with the personality to lead the mob. People do things in mobs that they couldn't or wouldn't do as individuals.

I've seen people on welfare with Blackberries, so I guess from my experience, cells are a lot more than sensible. Also, back in the day when they were too expensive and considered a luxury, my father paid on average 100 a month for his car phone. Of course, I was able to turn the bill into 350 once, but either way, same can be said for today.

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13 Aug 2009, 12:44 am

Happiness is a state of mind. It has nothing to do with Aspergers or not having Aspergers.

Shallow people are shallow people. You are either shallow or you are not. It has nothing to do with anything else.

Keep in mind some people are not only good at making friends, but they are also good at being fake. That doesn't make them NT or Aspie. It makes them fake. But I can see how Aspies can be more gullible than the next guy (at least for me anyway), so it would make sense to see fake people thinking they have more than what they got. So when you do see people that seem to have everything you wanted, don't be jealous because 9 times out of 10, you are only seeing what they want you to see which isn't an objective observation but one with their bias to it.

In my personal experience, I notice a lot of my extroverted friends and family (extreme extroversion) seem more fake (and put on a bigger mask) than the introverted I know. That doesn't mean all extroverted people are fake, but I can see how easy it would be for me to say that given my experience. So, I can see why some people on this forum can make false generalizations because of their experiences. In other words, it happens to the best of us.

Neurotypical (NT): neurologically typical to the human species (based on the notion that Autism is a neurological issue, so in essence, people who aren't autistic)

Extroversion: "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self" Which can also translate to people preoccupied with other people or "intensely focused on other people and what they are doing". Doesn't make them social butterflies, but it does increase the chance they have social skills. Note: introverts can also have great social skills.

Social Butterflies (SB, not to be confused with SOB): People who possess incredible social skills

Celebrities: People who have other people preoccupied and obsessed about them

Lucky SOB: People who have a lot of job offers without even applying, has several marriage proposals and turns most of them down, is always invited to parties and other events, is never short on cash or friends, and is happy most of the time.

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13 Aug 2009, 1:34 am

NT = the majority

Kind of like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHp9q3QTmVQ

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13 Aug 2009, 6:43 am

I wrote:

Can't we just describe 'NTs' as 'shallow people who have to find their identity in other people'? I know that means that a lot of 'NTs' won't be NTs any longer... perhaps we need a new word - bluepills.

If we consier society like the Matrix, we can differentiate people into bluepills and redpills. What most people call 'neurotypicals' on here are, actually, bluepills. Aspies tend to fall into the category of kid - i.e. they rejected the Matrix without taking the redpill. Some people here are like Cypher: they want to be in the comfortable world of the Matrix. Most of us have to be like the redpills Neo, Ghost, Trinity, Morpheus etc... entering the Matrix on a daily basis.

Unfortunately, we don't get all those superpowers.

It isn't a simple ASD/NT dichtomy; it's more of a Redpill:Bluepill dichtomy.

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13 Aug 2009, 7:20 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Ahhh. Now I see the disconnect. You are with extremely wealthy people and think that it is their NT'ness rather than their economic class which gives them job connections and limitless cash. Think this through logically. How could poverty or high unemployment be possible if a large circle of friends was all one needed to get a job? Poor NTs have lots of friends but friends won't get you a job in the ghetto (other than runner or mule). Middle class NTs also have lots of friends but that doesn't prevent them from losing their job to layoffs and not being able to find another one because nobody is hiring. A large circle of friends doesn't mean you can easily find another job when your company shuts down. What it does mean is you have lots of people to complain with at the bar when none of you can find jobs.

I have NEVER gotten a job because a friend or my parents' friends referred me. Nor has anyone I know. Everyone I know hits the pavement. When we use the word "referred" it means getting a job through a referral from a headhunting agency, which is simply a more efficient way of hitting the pavement (and highly recommended). This is because I'm thoroughly middle class. If you know people who find the cumbersome process of resumes, interviews and rejections to be hilarious and outside their experience, you know rich people.

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13 Aug 2009, 9:27 am

Magneto wrote:

I wrote:

I don't like this analogy at all. Society is not an illusion; it is real. People attached to the Matrix are stuck in their own minds. If anything, the reverse analogy is more appropriate, where those with ASD are more "trapped" inside their own heads and cannot get out. I don't like that analogy, either, though, so let's just drop it.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Aug 2009, 9:52 am

Janissy wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

I am not with wealthy people at all, just cliquey people who don't like randomness. They would rather have people working together they know get along well beforehand so they say to an employee they like "know anyone who needs a job?". That way they can hire someone the employee already knows and chances are if they know each other they are more likely to get along with each other at work. There won't be an awkward period trying to get to know each other with an unpredictable outcome.
I am pretty sure the same thing happens where you live as well as all over the earth.
This isn't everyone of course. Janissy, my question is, why don't your friends or family members ever help you in your job searches? It's what friends and family should do for the people they care about, isn't it? They should support them succeeding in life, imo.

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13 Aug 2009, 10:27 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Janissy wrote:

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Friends and family can help me go over my resume to make sure it's worded well. They can do mock interviews for practice and I can do the same for them. Beyond that? No. How COULD they? My friends and family do not have this sort of "I can get you a job" pull that you are talking about. Numerous though they are, all my friends can ever do is say, "maybe you should apply where I work and then we would be co-workers". My family? Even if I wanted to work for the same company as my Dad, what would his employment there have to do with anything? I know that nepotism exists. I'm not denying its existence. But nepotism isn't the norm and there is just no way that I could ever get a job by knowing the people I do because, friends and relatives both, they don't have that kind of power or pull. The ordinary person, no matter how sociable, has to hit the pavement.

Last edited by Janissy on 13 Aug 2009, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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