Isn't schizoid and avoident personality disorder Autism?

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Again, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. Have you seen a professional about this? What diagnoses were you given up to this point?

There is nothing in this article saying that autism is the opposite of schizoid disorder; more - the article does not even make any reference to schizoid disorder.

I think the research will stand pretty well. From my experiences working with both I have observed the same things this study measured. Autistic individuals will "jump" and become either agitated or befuddled with loud noises and people who fall into the schizoid category will continue on their way as if nothing happened not missing a beat.

Schizoid and schizotypal are not the same thing. Your schizotypal diagnosis may have been the result of symptoms that were more visibly noticeable or disruptive, whereas an underlying schizoid personality can take longer to rear its head. This doesn't mean schizoid features weren't already developing in childhood... it's just harder to classify someone as having a "personality disorder" until their late teens or early adulthood. Isn't that the general rule of thumb for PD's? Anyway, this is just my knowledge on the subject. I'm open to reconsider my view...

Oh, yes, I agree. I think both ASD and SPD can certainly co-exist, I was just trying to further differentiate the two. So as you said, a person can be born with HFA but have an unsympathetic parent(s) - or misread non-verbal signals due to an impaired theory of mind - and suffer psychological wounding, giving rise to schizoid tendencies. In another case, a person with Aspergers could grow up in a nurturing, supportive environment and not become personality disordered. So it's important to separate the two, even though it's tempting to focus on their similarities.

It's also important to note that schizoid tendencies seem to surface in early adulthood, and Aspie tendencies in early childhood. A Schizoid person could go through high school and college and seem relatively normal, but as soon as they're thrust into the world of adult responsibility - getting involved in intimate relationships, steady jobs - they existentially freak out and hit the panic button. Suddenly, all that repressed childhood pain comes rising to the surface, erupting like a volcano. Not having had the opportunity to feel secure with intimacy and their personal identity, their inability to function adequately as adults becomes more readily apparent.

That's a good question and I can try to answer it. I think I always had a vague sense of sadness growing up. In grade school I was good at sports (I know, not typical of Aspies if I do have it), did well in school, was popular, but was still unhappy inside. I'd learned to cope and cover up my problems as I continued into high school, continuing to mimic others to fit in. That's how I found my place and was accepted by others - I would adjust my personality, my interests, etc. to blend in. Eventually a collapse has to happen, a crisis of sorts. In my opinion, we all like to believe we're in control of our fate, but I think our general fates are preset in childhood. If you were mistreated in any way, eventually this will show itself later in life. Nothing can be suppressed forever. This is why psychologists might tell you, "you're exactly where you're supposed to be." You can't run from your pain forever, it doesn't really work all that well.

And so what happened to me was my social mask started to crack and I started experiencing intense anxiety and depression, etc. A few years later (now), I'm starting to understand the causal "dominoes" that led to this subtle breakdown. I'm going on a tangent right now and I don't even know if I'm answering your question haha . When I think about it, I think I had minor dissociative symptoms as a kid as well. I would escape into the mind a lot and would almost do it on command when a stressful situation arose. So my schizoid traits were definitely there to someone with a trained eye to see.

See kicker's post about the schizophrenia spectrum. Both schizoid and schizotypal fall on that spectrum. Believe it or not, at 14 I was diagnosed as being on both the autism and schizophrenia spectra.

EDIT: There were actually early signs of schizotypy in my case. Early on, I was noted to have problems processing information and to be "consistently inconsistent" in my behaviors. At age 8, I was noted to exhibit signs of "perceptual distortion and cognitive disorganization" by my school psychologist, both schizophrenia spectrum traits. At age 11, "perceptual and cognitive distortions" were noted, along with internal preoccupations, a pervasively poor self-image and a tendency toward social withdrawal. When at age 14, I developed what we *now* recognize was a full-blown psychotic episode, replete with disorganized speech, in some ways it comes as no surprise, as there were hints of it going all the way back to Kindergarten. What was surprising was the remarkable recovery I made afterwards.

It makes me wonder if I've been on the schizophrenia spectrum and not the autism spectrum all along.

Thank you for elaborating, it's very helpful. I guess I'm not that schizoid as I thought after all, but definitely have some traits. Especially the 'escaping from the real world into my imaginary world' and the 'feeling afraid of being hurt in social situations' are the ones that apply to me, ...

I remember, though, a psych blogger who was big into the autism being diametric of schizophrenia saying that just as you may be both depressed and manic at the same time (in a mixed episode), it may also be possible to be on both the autism and schizophrenia spectra.

Here is a good site if you are interested in neurosciences and the current understanding of it. UCTV.tv. They have many video lectures on Autism and other disorders. As well they have just about every science field covered. So anyone could find something interesting to them.

Thanks. My main interest is in phenomenology, the study of subjective experience, which has been getting integrated with neuroscience in research, like in the 2 below linked articles. How much does UCTV.tv integrate phenomenology? I would be really interested were that the case.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23810736

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23863772

See kicker's post about the schizophrenia spectrum. Both schizoid and schizotypal fall on that spectrum. Believe it or not, at 14 I was diagnosed as being on both the autism and schizophrenia spectra.

EDIT: There were actually early signs of schizotypy in my case. Early on, I was noted to have problems processing information and to be "consistently inconsistent" in my behaviors. At age 8, I was noted to exhibit signs of "perceptual distortion and cognitive disorganization" by my school psychologist, both schizophrenia spectrum traits. At age 11, "perceptual and cognitive distortions" were noted, along with internal preoccupations, a pervasively poor self-image and a tendency toward social withdrawal. When at age 14, I developed what we *now* recognize was a full-blown psychotic episode, replete with disorganized speech, in some ways it comes as no surprise, as there were hints of it going all the way back to Kindergarten. What was surprising was the remarkable recovery I made afterwards.

This study addresses the unraveling of the relationship between autism spectrum and schizophrenia spectrum traits in a population of adolescents with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). Recent studies comparing isolated symptoms of both spectrum disorders as well as diagnostic criteria for each (DSM-IV-TR) suggest resemblances in the clinical phenotype. A group of 27 adolescents with ASD (11 to 18 years) and 30 typically developing adolescents, matched for age and gender, participated in this study. Within the ASD group 11 adolescents satisfied DSM-IV-TR criteria for schizotypal personality disorders.

Autistic and schizotypal traits were identified by means of well validated questionnaires (Autism Questionnaire, AQ and Schizotypal Personality Questionnaire-Revised, SPQ). Significantly more schizotypal traits in adolescents with ASD were found than in typically developing controls. Besides high levels of negative symptoms, adolescents with ASD also displayed high levels of positive and disorganized symptoms.

There appeared to be a relationship between the mean level of autistic symptoms and schizotypal traits, as well as specific associations between autistic symptoms and negative, disorganized and positive schizotypal symptoms within individuals. Schizotypal symptomatology in all sub dimensions that are reflected by the SPQ scores, was most prominently associated with attention switching problems of the autism symptoms from the AQ.

These findings indicate that patients diagnosed with an ASD show schizophrenia spectrum traits in adolescence. Although other studies have provided empirical support for this overlap in diagnostic criteria between both spectrum disorders, the present findings add to the literature that behavioral overlap is not limited to negative schizotypal symptoms, but extends to disorganized and positive symptoms as well.

It makes me wonder if I've been on the schizophrenia spectrum and not the autism spectrum all along.

Ideas of reference 7 out of 9 Unsure 0
Excessive social anxiety 4 out of 8 Unsure 1
Odd beliefs or magical thinking 3 out of 7 Unsure 0
Unusual perceptual experiences 6 out of 9 Unsure 0
Odd or eccentric behavior 5.5 out of 7 Unsure 0
No close friends 8 out of 9 Unsure 0
Odd speech 8.5 out of 9 Unsure 0
Constricted affect 4 out of 8 Unsure 0
Suspiciousness 8 out of 8 Unsure 0
Total SPQ-A 54 out of 74

kicker, et al.,

BTW, if you do have low PPI, what are some of the ways it would manifest in your daily life?

I still seem to have strong schizotypal traits:

I've also noted that I have a lot of the self-disorders as measured by the Examination of Anomalous Self-Experience. Some of these include experiencing my first-person perspective as being in the back of my head and looking through my head to the windows (my eyes) outside or up to my thoughts which appear at different points in my head; I also have the longstanding feeling of harboring a monster.

As that Danish researcher said, high levels of self-disorders may distinguish a schizophrenia spectrum person from an autism spectrum person.