Ever felt that the NT world is just a game of let's pretend?

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I thought I remembered you once saying you were an extrovert (or at least extravert in the funny MTBI terminology). What does motivate you to interact with people and make you feel energized by being around people if you don't experience this "mysterious energy"?

The reason I ask is because being an introvert myself, I have trouble distinguishing characteristics that are unique to autism from those that I seem to share with many introverted NTs.

From my experience it's pretty common for introverted NTs to dislike small-talk. The only difference seems to be the fact that they don't have to expend as much mental energy "faking" it. They see it as a means to an end in terms of getting to know new people, but they don't enjoy doing it just for the sake of it with people they already know.

I like this cartoon, about JERKS. Notice the jerks are in their own, separate, special little container here. It's SO true...

http://tammyvwp.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/farside.jpg

Jerks are found in every group...that's a subcategory of humanity in general.

What motivates me to socialise? I just lke words, hearing them as well as reading them. But I stll spend a certain amount of time immersed in interests.

I must admit I am not very good at listening to small talk though. i have a tendency to ntrodce new topics, or talk about what interests me. It doesnt make me v popular.

My theory onthe extroversion thing with AS is that AS makes most people introverts, when otherwise without the AS a number of them may have been extroverts.

Even i am not a strong extrovert,I tested as about 60% ext, 40% introv

As for introverted Nts, what I have noticed about them is that though they like smaller social groups, they still seem to feel that "invisible energy" we dont feel and they still understand all that complicated social stuff. Or at least that is what I have noticed. I could be wrong.

Hm...I dunno, a lot of introverted NTs feel awkward in social situations. I think that shyness in some cases leads to not being as experienced with certain types of situations, and then the inexperienced exacerbates the shyness.

And I still hold to the theory that some NTs, especially the introverted ones, really do have more interesting sides to them, but they need to be drawn out of their shell in a way where they feel comfortable and not threatened. That's been my experience in trying to engage people on more complex or "geeky" subjects than they'd usually take on. Given that just about EVERYONE who sticks out in any way gets picked on, whether NT or not, it's easy to see how both people on the spectrum AND NTs can have a hard time with venturing into areas that may be perceived as unusual.

I find that on certain occasions when I find a non-ADHD type (or at least what I think is one...I could be wrong, though!), or someone who doesn't let their geekiness show, that I CAN bring the conversation into more interesting areas, but it takes a gentle, not overbearing touch so the other party feels "safe" (i.e. that they will not be judged, made fun of, made to feel inferior, or "snitched" on to people in their lives they would NOT feel safe with). And sometimes it can be surprising in a good way what is really in somebody that you otherwise underestimated.

But there definitely is a part of you that wants the other people to get something out of your words when you talk about what interests you? You want them to be interested. You want them to experience the same enjoyment that you experience when you talk about stuff that interests you, right? I know I do.


I've wondered about this myself. As young as the age of 5 I can remember running up to random people and talking about whatever happened to be my latest all absorbing interest at that moment. If they reacted positively I experienced a surge of pure joy. Obviously I was getting some kind of energy from the interaction where talking into a tape recorder wouldn't have sufficed. Even if it was somewhat one sided in typical aspie fashion, the source of my motivation to talk was the thought that they might experience the same pleasure as I did regarding whatever interested me.

It wasn't until I got older that I became more introverted. At some point I realized that the adults I monologued at were not as interested as I thought they were. I learned that they were merely "humoring" me, because they thought I was cute. This came as a great disappointment. That just wasn't good enough for me. I probably realized this at the age of 6 or 7. I felt betrayed. At least other children would let me know flat out when they weren't as interested as I was. From then on I came to think of the "adult world" as the world of phoniness and ritualized social interaction. That feeling has sort of stuck with me my entire life, to this day.

I guess this is getting back to the original topic. I don't know if this would help NTs understand the real reason why I see a lot of social activities as "fake".


And I'm still trying to figure out what makes this "invisible energy" different from what I experience. I mean, I recently had a conversation with someone, a new friend of mine, where we talked for over four hours. I felt genuinely connected, as in I was just as interested in listening to her as she was in listening to me. This wasn't small talk. We talked about pretty deep stuff. It wasn't just words or academic discussion either. Why did this kind of interaction work for me, whereas if I'm asked to go "mingle and meet people" at a party or social reception it's completely useless and I feel absolutely nothing?

Well, its complicated. When was a child I was pretty quiet, but when i would talk it didnt sound like the other kids. I would have an idea of what i wanted to say, but when i spoke it sounded odd, sort of disconnected.

I had difficulty findng the correct words so i would make up a sentence of words which would not express how I felt. I was an excellent reader but I had difficulty speaking to people and forming sentences.

i didnt really talk about my interests all the time like some aspie kids, but i would try to talk to people and my conversations went wrong. Very wrong.

I got myself into a lot of trouble at times because I didnt understand the implications of my words, and have memories of being yelled at by teachers, being sent to the principal, or worse, and not understanding what I had done wrong.

A I got older i got better at forming sentences but i still sound odd... anyway what I am trying to say is that i always had a reaonably urge to socialise but when i tried to do so the results were pretty discouraging.

High school was a lot better, i actually managed to make some friends but I was still The Weird Girl.

I never experienced NTs as fake though, just really confusing. I know there were some fake people around but I was incapable of recognising it, though I could see inconsistencies in their behaviour at times, such as being nice to someone then bakstabbing them.

As for "depth of conversation", like you had wth your new friend, I thnk it i because you were talkng about omethng you cared about, and she also cared about the topic, so a conection happened. I think aspies can forge connections with people over topic discssion far easier than any other way.

Asfor the energy, I dont know about t either. My feeling is that it is kind of like a paralllel unverse, omething that we cannot fathom. They just live in another world and unless i think in the same way as them I cannot know that energy.

Maybe it is also because their brains have a diffirent chemical balance, and are better at perceiving a lot of different stimuli, whereas our brains cannot filter all the energies so shut off some of the channels.

I've felt that way about the NT world, my entire life. Let's pretend to like the latest stuff, like everybody else is pretending to do.

I feel very unreal. Life is so fake. I'm watching the world like behind the glass. People are like puppets in the puppet show. They have similar schemes, speak the same phrases and I try to predict what they can do. I feel I should play with them, but I'm not a puppet, but audience and I can't behave like them.

i do not feel that there is an NT world. the world is unbiased, and before humans were on the planet it was still a world.

i am on this planet and i have my own private connection to it, and i do not care who else inhabits it as long as they do not get in my way.

"nt's" do not own the planet.

the world is not mine either because i will be gone long before it ages perceptibly. if i was to hack away at the world with all my might for all my life, i could not even create a pock mark in it's face as it proceeds through time.

i just want my own tiny space in which to live, and there is so much space in the world that it is easy for me to live without interference by others.

i do not understand the dances and agonies and joys that others participate in, but that does not matter to me because i am not required to understand them by any heavenly law.

i just breathe the air that is in front of my mouth, and i walk into the empty space that is before me and i think what my brain is inevitably built to think and i relax in my private space until my time is finished.

it is a nice existence.

people do not harass me to be a part of their world because they can see i am not in their world, and it does not upset them so they leave me alone.

so it should be.

My parents say when I was little I spoke with a sort of drawl. I elongated vowels and to people it sounded almost like a southern accent but slightly "off". I had no awareness that my speech was different. Even to this day my voice sounds a lot more dull and monotone, almost whiny sometimes, when I listen to myself speaking on tape. It's irritating as people are always asking me to "speak up" and I have been accused of sounding whiny when that wasn't intended.


I guess I didn't have this problem so much. At a really young age my parents were worried for a little while because I didn't do the typical baby babble. I also screamed and cried all the time when I wasn't being held or fed, probably due to sensory issues. Apparently I didn't talk at all for quite a long time but then I was suddenly speaking in complete sentences. I didn't really have a language delay.


I tended to ignore other kids but I often begged adults to play with me because they were the only ones who I could make to comply with my "rules". I had these little choreographed play routines that I would act out over and over again in the same way. I was also constantly forcing adults to "watch me" when I did things. I also struggled with boredom a lot and was very demanding of attention in my own special way.

I guess I don't remember having such a horrible time with other kids because my parents put me in a special program and held me back one year in starting kindergarten. Though, on the playground I hardly interacted at all with the other kids.


I had a few instances like that with teachers. I had a lot of trouble stopping on task and starting another and I often didn't even notice when the class was supposed to be "moving on" to another activity. If I got yelled at and didn't understand why I got really upset and resentful. I'd have an intense dislike for said teacher. A few times in kindergarten / first grade I physically attacked or hit teachers. I've always had a temper and uncontrollable rages.


I think I had the most friends in middle school. High school is when I first got depressed and completely stopped talking to my peers. I think something happened to me chemically when puberty hit. I became much more withdrawn. I also completely lost interest in grades and homework. After a while I began refusing to attend school and dropped out. The depression was hell for me. I've never been the same ever since. Basically I've had some degree of depression for the past 15 years, though it was milder at times. With depression came extreme introversion and inability to talk with people. It's especially troubling that I usually convince myself that people are boring.


I just wondered if the type of energy we experience when discussing topics we care about is in any way similar to the energy NTs get in everyday chit-chat.

I have a lot more thoughts on this but unfortunately I have to get to work. Such a drag.

Maybe smalltalk is the NT kind of stimming?
Like we may consider smalltalk pointless, they may consider stimming pointless.
Maybe we should bear with the NTs like we would like them to do to us.

I'm surround and live with NT's and I grew up to get used to the real world, so to me, it isn't really much of a game to me.

I remember that happening many a time... being immersed in somethng and then looking up and everyone was doing something else! also I used to get lost on school trips because I would be looking at something and not realise everyone else had moved off somewhere else, and then find that i would be alone in the museum, or wherever...



I went sort of manic in my teens and also had a lot of spells of depression.. roller coaster moods. I think it i the problems I had in my early 20s that affected me the most.




I think that to them they are so good at using language to communicate in many ways that they like to have fun with it, ie the chitchat is sort of like an enjoyable game, like tennis.. whereas the aspie would still be trying to hit the ball off a wall and figure out how to serve, so would not nderstand how someone could do that with language.

The image portrayed by media is that teenage years and early 20's are the best time; you have your freedom, you're still young etc.
In reality while there's a little truth in that it mostly seems to be it's somewhat hard and difficult.
Personally I found 30ish on has been so much better for me.

true. I agree with the saying that Youth is wasted on the young....

I think I know what you mean. The vast majority of NTs just copy each other like sheep. They are always trying to keep up with the Joneses. They are always trying to score points off people. Their lives are laid out from day one. They do not even have to think about anything.

I'm sure what I have said is quite harsh but if when growing up you have no difficulties with social interaction then you can learn at a constant rate without hiccups. This must make a person become robotic and sheep like. Just follow the herd and all will be fine.