I fear I might become racist against NT's...

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Oh good, you agree then. Emotionally disturbed people should frequent the Haven. Glad you're not biased against aspies at all, suggesting they move their witch-thoughts to the thinking area and no one else need compromise. How wonderful we share that sentiment.

I know I am far too combative. It was a mistake opening any page where thoughtless individuals might try tell the thoughtful what to do. When will I learn.

I am a black and white thinker as well so perhaps that is why we are clashing here. Your words as you relate them seem to harbor prejudice. Why would you infer that I bear any hatred for my brother? I absolutely do not. In fact, he is perhaps the closest person to me, second to my daughter. I do not think Aspies are selfish or mean by nature, although anyone can display those qualities at times, no matter what their neurological wiring may be.

I am somewhat perplexed by your insistence that there is something that you "get" that I cannot "get" simply because I have a different wiring than you. It comes across as arrogant when you state that you speak to your friends despite them being "vapid". It is curious to me that you find NT's irritating and boring. What is it that you see that they don't? Really I am not trying to rile you but I would like to know how all NT's lack an ability to "understand".

Sure, they'll never know what it's like to be an Aspie, but one could say the reverse as well. Perhaps we won't approach thoughts and ideas in the same way but can any two people do that?

Perhaps you clash with NT's because you seem to come across as blunt and severe. Perhaps you are not meaning to come across that way? Or maybe you are. (or maybe you don't care how you come across) Either way, perhaps much of your strained relations with NT's around you is due to your different way of communicating your thoughts? Perhaps they wouldn't be so irritating if they didn't feel they were being judged and looked down upon by you? Not trying to be rude-just making an observation.

I enjoy debating and exchanging thoughts and ideas but I cannot do that if every debate leads to "you just don't understand". That would be frustrating even for an Aspie!

You can't be 'racist' against 'Neurotypical' people because they are not a race of people. They are an ambiguous group of people defined only but not having a mental illness, a neurological impairment, or an intellectual disability. That label is more of social construct then ours is, how can you be 'racist' against them? All you're doing is attacking a silly image of the ideal social person in your head, not anyone that's real. It's kind of like what people can do to those of us with Autism, only you've reversed it.
If you are prejudiced against such people, people who are everywhere and unavoidable, then you are not going to do well in this world.

People are confusing.

I suppose an Aspie could get very defensive in certain situations with NTs, especially if they were bullied when they were younger...but you should try to work past any issues you may have...life's too short to let some chuckleheads get you down.

Nice post, and I agree that other groups can get a lot of flak too, such as people with Downs Syndrome or intellectual disabilities, and also people of non-white races can experience racism

I think a lot of the worst behaviours humans display is because they dont want to be in a minority of any sort so they try and sort of bury themselves in the crowd, so if they see bullying they may not speak up because they dont want to be made a victim themselves.

zen_mistress, I'm going to add to your statement and say that people of ALL races can experience racism. All it takes is the "correct" (though by "correct" I really mean "toxic enough") situation for it to happen. Bigotry is bigotry--it doesn't matter what direction it points in, whether it goes from majority to minority or minority to majority. The word one applies to it does not change, nor does the nature or magnitude of the sin.

I also think you're very much correct about the fearfulness instilled in people because of not wanting to stick out from the crowd.

Sure,i'm all for interdependence,cooperation etc..
It's not just a fact but one of the nicest thing in this life,
That's why we should be nice to people that are nice to us regardless of the infrastructure they provide us/
I'm sure u r familiar with the countless incidents in history were the materialistic needs of people were used against their self interest,self preservation and moral values and too many people and organizations apply such degrading methods routinely ,some time even toward their closest kins.
Economic interdependence like any other interdependence would be sound and beneficial to all when and where it would not be abused,
Unfortunately we are still quite far from such reality,
This is also a fact.

But AS are less likely to be racist and at least the AS i know are very egalitarian and tend to be much more tolerant towards the superficials aspects of life
AS indifference toward hierarchy is very well documented
I think it would be fair to say that AS generally are quite blind to color,wealth, ethnicity,nationality,social statues etc...
I guess that one of the reasons we find it hard sometime to tolerate people who are very much into this game, namely NT's, hence the OP dilemma,
U don't want to and don't feel like a racist so how can u be a racist toward the racists ?
U can,
Because true logic is a combination or integration between the heart and the brain that reflects many aspects of life,not only the one dimensional linearity of the brain
i can sense NT's bigotry in any little choice they make
in the way they look at me and the tone they uses to address me
In their eyes i always be inferior or superior because i'm different
well
i'm different because i don't sense the world in this terms which leads me to not having the necessary "social skills" and to many AS inability to integrate into society,family,workplace etc...

Let me point out theres something of a statistical illusion here since most people with autistic tendencies who did not have language delays with normal to above normal intelligence are diagnosed AS. So you are taking a group of people who in order to fit the accepted criteria must have not had learning delays, and comparing them to absolutely everyone (including those with autistic tendencies), many of which who did and dont exactly have high IQs currently or at the time of testing. I genuinely do not believe that intelligence varies in a statistically relevant way between the autistic and non-autistic population, taking the whole of each group into consideration.

I do not believe saying one neurotype is better than the other is a smart thing to say. Neurodiversity is not, and never will be about autistic superiority. If you claim to be better than one neurotype then how can you blame people of other neurotypes from saying your cognitive style is inferior? I'd like people on the whole to get rid of that kind of thinking and learn to appreciate what cognitive diversity has to offer.

When you stop coming across as arrogant and disdainful of others?

Wow, this is by far the most thing I've ever seen posted on this forum.

'Neurotypicality' isn't a race.

Thanks for the comments on my post guys.

Personally I dont approve of the fact that some AS people say that NTs are dumb and have low IQs. What is up with that?

But I can say that I see a lot of parents here who are saying, why all the hatred towards NTs?

Well the simple truth is that a lot of people with AS have had, in their lives, a lot of mistreatment from non-autistic people. Particularly people who were over 30 who went to school before AS was known about. What I remember of my school days was being bullied and physically attacked by people, and also struggling to fit myself around an alien social system. I was lucky enough to have some friends at high school though. But the bullying was still happening and I seemed to be the only target, except for a couple of other kids, who seemed to be intellectually disabled, or also have AS.

You can say, well it is just a few bullies. You had friends, right?

But the thing is, there was this conspiracy of silence. Not one single one of the students said to me "You dont deserve this bullying." Not even my friends. Noone discussed with me what I could do about it.

In one of my earlier posts I said that some kids at school stay silent because they dont want to be the target. But that is only part of it.

At some level, the other kids at my school must have believed this: "You deserve this bullying. You dont know how to stay under the radar like us. It isnt our fault you attract this attention. If you were normal like me, this wouldnt be happening to you. It is your fault that you cant behave normally."

Once I went to a teacher and told her about the bullying and she actually did say the above to me. But you know, she only said what the others were thinking. Why shoot the messenger?

So, it was a big weight around my neck, and it continued into university and beyond into adulthood.

So, anyone who doesnt understand where all the hatred and anger is coming from, try this on for size. Try wearing this: "Your personality is crap. You are a weird person who has an awful personality." Wear this for years and struggle to change and find that no matter how hard you try, the parts of your personality that you are trying to chip away at and make normal keep growing back. Until you wake up and realise you are in your 30s and you never managed to change. You still have that same personality. You are still the same person, and the world still believes there is something wrong with you.

I am hoping this post can be read by people who dont really understand the resentment that they see coming from this forum.

I notice this, too. The differences can be exaggerated on both sides. One thing I definitely notice while reading the posts on WP is that people really truly are more alike than different, though they might not care to admit it. That goes for NTs and autistics, both. Autistics will say it's the NTs that exaggerate the differences and not them but it's so apparent that both do it.

They answer each other with the same response, both groups become more clannish and cliquish but it's born out of insecurity.
It's the same responses, just different sides of the coin.

People have different abilities. Some people are good at analyzing while others excell at putting people at ease. Most people tend to want to rally the like minded around themselves. There are plenty of snobs in both groups. Does this justify the feelings of superiority? Often, they crop up after being insulted or hurt in some way. Compensation occurs by convincing yourself that you are "better than they are" and so are people "like you" and we all do it, autistic or not.

People look for ways to comfort themselves and it's soothing to think of yourself as being superior. Everyone will continue to do it when under duress. It might be a coping mechanism of some kind, handed down from generation to generation. Who knows, maybe it has something to do with self preservation? When down, it helps to think of yourself as a worthwhile human being and to feel worthwhile, after being insulted or disrespected, you need to feel superior to the ones who you perceive have caused you grief.

I know I come across quite cold and harsh. The world I live in is cold and harsh. And I don't mean that "people are so horrible to me that I am mean", I mean my view of the world is cold and harsh. I try my best to live in reality. When I used to live in a nice happy world of God-love and higher purposes, I came across just as sickeningly sweet and deluded as other people. I sounded totally irrelevant in my responses, which were all centered around some concept of a divine truth. I made no effort to learn about reality and insisted that everything would just be alright if everyone were nicer and had more faith in God. I often made no sense, and do you know why? Because not everyone's reality revolves around that delusion. No matter how much mine did, that doesn't change the fact that other brains really are beating to a different drum.

I have to be honest now, though. It's the only thing keeping me sane. I'm pretty sick of being so confused all the time. I know I see things from a different light, but now I have no illusions about why, and when I notice inconsistencies in a pattern I simply point them out. Going through life ignoring your senses is not good for anyone; I wouldn't recommend it to you either. You have to use the senses you were given.

I think people still have a lot to learn about really accepting people on the spectrum, for precisely the reason I outlined above. Our reality is different. I know people are used to trying to accept people from different cultures and sexual preferences, but they largely still fail at that, even when they try. True acceptance, from my experience, comes when you admit that you have no idea what that person's world is like, and you just accept them anyway. You try to learn from them as natives, but never claim to know what it's like. And so while you may have advice for them, ways they can deal with their own culture or differences, you never speak as an authority; and you listen attentively when people within that culture have found ways to enjoy their lives, because they're the ones actually living that reality.

As much as I hate to admit it, I think we are still dealing with the remnants of a world which views ASD people as aberrations. You know, like that Autism Speaks guy who just wants his son to be able to be more normal? People are still trying to "help" us be more like them, and that... that is a supreme arrogance.

My point being... Mama to Grace, maybe you should reconsider your position a little bit? Does your daughter (and do we) really need your help not becoming like your brother? Do you really know what's best for us? From my perspective, no, you certainly do not. Just as I do not know what's best for you or even your daughter.

For me all this is obvious. But there you go, I wrote it down for you. I hope you understand that talking to you is quite unpleasant for me, but I feel compelled to because I hate to see things that don't make sense. I'm driven to talk to you as much as I am to fix any puzzle or broken object. If it remains broken and unfix-able I will of course just give up, but it will always haunt me. I may even return at a later date thinking I have a new way to solve it. Pity those of us that live like this and give us room to write our own rules.

Non-sense hurts my brain, and at its worst it makes me cry. For that reason I usually avoid nt people like the plague. This is an oversimplification, but for those of you trying to understand, it should be a good enough start.

Manifoldrob, thank you for answering my question =) he sounds like quite an interesting fellow. thank you for the book suggestion, however while i am good at math, i find it absolutely dreadful and boring =P i much prefer a good murder mystery or fantasy collection.

i do agree we make judgements about people all the time. i do it at work daily, i have to. i work as a property manager and show residential units all the time. i have to evaluate someone instantly before i take them into an empty unit. do they look like they just got out of prison? are they acting suspiciously in any way? will i be safe alone with them? i have to make these judgements at work as a matter of survival and safety.

i brought this out because it exemplifies my entire position, but probably not in the way you think. my point is that we should each be taken as individuals and judged on our own merits, especially in social situations. you are making generalizations and assumptions about me based on my neurological wiring. perhaps it would surprise you to learn that, while i can talk to people in my work with mimimal awkwardness, socially i am about where you are. i went to a bbq last night for 3 hours and it was agony (had to go for work). i end up sitting quietly only answering when spoken to and just watching and listening. thank god my 6 yr old was there in the pool and i had to keep my eyes on him the entire time or im sure i would have died of boredom and discomfort. i never go out, i have 0 friends if you dont count my sister and her girlfriend, and its been that way for at least 12 years. in essence, i have no social life. i, too, am introverted. i dislike crowds and prefer to stay home and indulge my interests which are mainly mmorpgs and internet. which do i sound more like, an aspie or nt? =)