Board index › General Discussion › General Autism Discussion

Does child abuse lead to Asperger's?

Page 4 of 4 [ 63 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

Previous topic | Next topic

Which of the following diagnoses would you give to at least one of your parents / caretakers?
abusive, not sure which DSM diagnosis 23%  23%  [ 21 ]
atypical but not abusive, not sure which DSM diagnosis 8%  8%  [ 7 ]
Asperger's / autism 17%  17%  [ 15 ]
Antisocial / Narcissistic / Histrionic Personality Disorder 9%  9%  [ 8 ]
Borderline Personality Disorder 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Schizotypal Personality Disorder / Schizophrenia 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Bipolar Disorder 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Depression 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
Other DSM diagnosis 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
none; both parents neurotypical 24%  24%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 90

blooiejagwa
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Dec 2017
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,793

13 Aug 2020, 10:02 pm


Might be relevant n helpful fr some


_________________
Take defeat as an urge to greater effort.
-Napoleon Hill


quite an extreme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Age: 324
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,922
Location: Germany

14 Aug 2020, 1:54 am

I guess we have to distinguish here between the problems. It may cause Alexithymia and failing with empathy as well as anxieties towards people or anxieties and strange behaviour near to other people like unconscious self-defending movements that only very little children use for protecting themself. But it's unlikely the reason for forms of autism like sensory issues, bad body control, being overly emotional or having problems understanding language.


_________________
I am as I am. :skull: :sunny: :wink: :sunny: :skull: Life has to be an adventure!


blooiejagwa
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 19 Dec 2017
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,793

14 Aug 2020, 2:07 am

quite an extreme wrote:
I guess we have to distinguish here between the problems. It may cause Alexithymia and failing with empathy as well as anxieties towards people or anxieties and strange behaviour near to other people like unconscious self-defending movements that only very little children use for protecting themself. But it's unlikely the reason for forms of autism like sensory issues, bad body control, being overly emotional or having problems understanding language.


yeah as Jakki said it aggravates it , she didn't say it causes it
Show Spoiler
XH said once, at Costco, about a very tall man who was packing shopping bags,
that he was a victim of extreme child abuse. when we were walking out (he whispered it)

I said how can you tell? But he kept insisting he could.

Nothing physical, it was his aspect and vibes - the way he reacted to people and eye contact thing and the way he held his body.
Sort of like there was a barrier in between - and seeming fragile (which was weird since he was so tall) and a weird way of slightly pulling back if someone's hand got close sometimes, to reach for the bags -even though it was in front of him (not from behind) like an involuntary reaction.

We were observing him for a while (both of us) during the long line-up too -
because he was so extremely handsome from vibes mainly--
looking extremely innocent, kind, sweet and gentle or something. I told XH he looked like an angel might but I didn't know why he reacted like that when I said thank you.. and XH said that then. Of course it is basically speculation but he's been right about people which was confirmed later on, so why not this ?


_________________
Take defeat as an urge to greater effort.
-Napoleon Hill


Aspie1
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Mar 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,749
Location: United States

14 Aug 2020, 10:21 am

quite an extreme wrote:
I guess we have to distinguish here between the problems. It may cause Alexithymia and failing with empathy as well as anxieties towards people or anxieties and strange behaviour near to other people like unconscious self-defending movements that only very little children use for protecting themself. But it's unlikely the reason for forms of autism like sensory issues, bad body control, being overly emotional or having problems understanding language.
It can also cause a cognitive dissonance in situations where talking about feelings is mandatory, like in therapy. (In therapy, only a few "feelings" answers are acceptable, the rest are not, but disregard that for now.) So basically, the child is being constantly told at home that nothing he feels matters to anybody, while his therapists DEMANDS that he talk about his feelings and berates him for failing to do so. Well, news flash---he has no experience doing that! It's like expecting a 40-year-old virgin to get a one-night stand in a bar. Lucky for me, after some trial-and-error, I figured out what answers my therapist wanted to hear, memorized them, and regurgitated them for her.



Jakki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,229
Location: Outter Quadrant

14 Aug 2020, 12:34 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:

Might be relevant n helpful fr some


Thank you. I tried this out it really helped me . Hope I can remember to do this little exercise


_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are


lostonearth35
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Jan 2010
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,750
Location: Lost on Earth, waddya think?

14 Aug 2020, 12:50 pm

I was raised in a very loving, very functional family by two NT parents and I can honestly say Asperger's is not caused by child abuse or "refrigerator mothers" at all. In fact I can hardly believe we're having a "discussion" like this in 2020.
But then again there are "highly intellectual debates" about not wearing masks because freedumb.



quite an extreme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Age: 324
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,922
Location: Germany

14 Aug 2020, 12:58 pm

blooiejagwa wrote:
Show Spoiler
XH said once, at Costco, about a very tall man who was packing shopping bags,
that he was a victim of extreme child abuse. when we were walking out (he whispered it)

I said how can you tell? But he kept insisting he could.

Nothing physical, it was his aspect and vibes - the way he reacted to people and eye contact thing and the way he held his body.
Sort of like there was a barrier in between - and seeming fragile (which was weird since he was so tall) and a weird way of slightly pulling back if someone's hand got close sometimes, to reach for the bags -even though it was in front of him (not from behind) like an involuntary reaction.

We were observing him for a while (both of us) during the long line-up too -
because he was so extremely handsome from vibes mainly--
looking extremely innocent, kind, sweet and gentle or something. I told XH he looked like an angel might but I didn't know why he reacted like that when I said thank you.. and XH said that then. Of course it is basically speculation but he's been right about people which was confirmed later on, so why not this ?

That's whould be a typical sample. Distrusting people and not getting their intentions because the lack of empathy, no idea of right body distance, awesome innocent eyes, some times strange body movements, prevents eye contact, nearly normal language ... :roll:



quite an extreme
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Age: 324
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,922
Location: Germany

14 Aug 2020, 1:14 pm

lostonearth35 wrote:
I was raised in a very loving, very functional family by two NT parents and I can honestly say Asperger's is not caused by child abuse or "refrigerator mothers" at all. In fact I can hardly believe we're having a "discussion" like this in 2020.

That's fine for you but you aren't all people and you have no idea how even very nice people can be towards their little children sometimes. :?



Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 21
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

14 Aug 2020, 7:08 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
I'm sure that child abuse at a very young age when the brain is still developing is one of the reasons of it. Alexithymia or Asperger's for emotional self-protection as well as disliking or distrusting other people can be the result of it. :evil:

i literally just explain why this theroy is false in another thread
TL:DR more times than not emotional self-protection would be emotional blunting which is not alexithymia. alexithyma you can precive your emotins you just can't read them well emotiional bluntness you can onyl percieve your emotoins if they are so extreme they burst your 'dam'. And while both of these are true. No Asperger's is more than just those symptoms. In fact a good portion of people with asd like people and just don't know hot o go about comunicating with them and are put off. They crave communication but just aren't adequately equipped to communicate with people. Secondly. Asperger's is so much more than just those things you are listing. I don't understand this whole theory and also what about the people who have loving parents woh are dedicated to helping their children as much as possible and go out of their way to make sure there child is would those people not develop autism. They would develop autism. Like no the self-protection mechanisms my self-concious triggered were often out of my control and sometimes even out of my perception. where as asperger's it's nto really either. I coulnd't just shut off my emotional blunting. You can learn to read emotions with alexithymia. Like no stupid idea. i was autsitic long before the abuse started anyway. At Least before it became chronic.


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 21
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

14 Aug 2020, 7:13 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
quite an extreme wrote:
I guess we have to distinguish here between the problems. It may cause Alexithymia and failing with empathy as well as anxieties towards people or anxieties and strange behaviour near to other people like unconscious self-defending movements that only very little children use for protecting themself. But it's unlikely the reason for forms of autism like sensory issues, bad body control, being overly emotional or having problems understanding language.
It can also cause a cognitive dissonance in situations where talking about feelings is mandatory, like in therapy. (In therapy, only a few "feelings" answers are acceptable, the rest are not, but disregard that for now.) So basically, the child is being constantly told at home that nothing he feels matters to anybody, while his therapists DEMANDS that he talk about his feelings and berates him for failing to do so. Well, news flash---he has no experience doing that! It's like expecting a 40-year-old virgin to get a one-night stand in a bar. Lucky for me, after some trial-and-error, I figured out what answers my therapist wanted to hear, memorized them, and regurgitated them for her.
I did this whenever they asked me how I felt mind you this was before i was diagnosed. I'd just say i felt content because it's kinda neutral atleast from my limited emotional intelligence at the time. Contentment isn't really neutral it's slightly positive.


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


Romofan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Jul 2020
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 602
Location: Carcosa, Texas

14 Aug 2020, 7:18 pm

"Some are born Aspie; Some achieve Aspieness; Some have Aspieness Thrust Upon Them"

Seriously, while I'd imagine you are either wired for it or not, the abuse that many Aspies have to endure probably triggers what you call em...comorbidities? Things like bipolar disease, ocd, histrionics...


_________________
"We see the extent to which our pursuit of pleasure has been limited in large part by a vocabulary foisted upon us"


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 21
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

14 Aug 2020, 7:21 pm

quite an extreme wrote:
blooiejagwa wrote:
Show Spoiler
XH said once, at Costco, about a very tall man who was packing shopping bags,
that he was a victim of extreme child abuse. when we were walking out (he whispered it)

I said how can you tell? But he kept insisting he could.

Nothing physical, it was his aspect and vibes - the way he reacted to people and eye contact thing and the way he held his body.
Sort of like there was a barrier in between - and seeming fragile (which was weird since he was so tall) and a weird way of slightly pulling back if someone's hand got close sometimes, to reach for the bags -even though it was in front of him (not from behind) like an involuntary reaction.

We were observing him for a while (both of us) during the long line-up too -
because he was so extremely handsome from vibes mainly--
looking extremely innocent, kind, sweet and gentle or something. I told XH he looked like an angel might but I didn't know why he reacted like that when I said thank you.. and XH said that then. Of course it is basically speculation but he's been right about people which was confirmed later on, so why not this ?

That's whould be a typical sample. Distrusting people and not getting their intentions because the lack of empathy, no idea of right body distance, awesome innocent eyes, some times strange body movements, prevents eye contact, nearly normal language ... :roll:

JUST BECAUSE EXTREME CHILD ABUSE CAN CAUSE SOMEONE TO SHARE SYMPTOMS WITH AN AUTISTIC PERSON DOESN'T MAKE THEM AUTISTIC! Okay now that out of the way. People with PTSD don't really lack empathy they just aren't intuned to that empathy because the trauma kinda turned that off. The person you described is likely acting out of fear, with autism it's not that at all. That's a clear difference. this example they never had time to develop the social skills cause they were to busy being afraid for their life and in such a situation developing social skills takes a back door. And after you life like that for a long time. It can be hard to let go of that. They avoid eye contact to try and avoid confrontation. sometimes strange body movements cause people's body movements get really rigid and tight when they are fearful. etc. I'd also like to point out the fact that a lot fo autistic people are OVERLY trusting. Even me. i have trust issues but if i trust someone it's all the way it's all or nothing. but here's the thing. the abused child was to usy trying to survive to learn the social skills while the autistic one just can't. Secondly If they break through that barrier seperating them from the world (no easy task mind you) would they even exhibit those behaviors unlikely.


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


Last edited by Pieplup on 14 Aug 2020, 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 21
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

14 Aug 2020, 7:23 pm

Romofan wrote:
"Some are born Aspie; Some achieve Aspieness; Some have Aspieness Thrust Upon Them"

Seriously, while I'd imagine you are either wired for it or not, the abuse that many Aspies have to endure probably triggers what you call em...comorbidities? Things like bipolar disease, ocd, histrionics...

THat's an excellent point. While it might not cause autism it canc ertainly make it worse. either by making it harder for them to learn to cope with it forcing them onto unhealthy coping mechanisms or causing them to expend to much energy and burning out early. I peronally fall into these catagories. Secondly, Asbolutely. they don't taek into account things like PTSD, DID, and other trauma related disorders that could arise and make things worse. I think your seeing the effects of abuse and thinking ASPIE, when that's just how people react to abuse. And that's the problem.


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


Jakki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,229
Location: Outter Quadrant

14 Aug 2020, 7:41 pm

That was very informative ...... good observations .


_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are


Pieplup
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2015
Age: 21
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 2,658
Location: Maine

14 Aug 2020, 7:57 pm

Jakki wrote:
That was very informative ...... good observations .

thank you :)


_________________
ever changing evolving and growing
I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]