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Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 12:46 pm

i beg you to view the links, look at the information and see the patterns, i brought this here because i want to share this with everyone

people need to know we are all diverse more than it just seems, and together we are all the very same thing made in the very same image



Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 12:49 pm

its bigger than mercury poisioning, or chemicals the government has, or conspiracy

its bigger than freeways and roads and all the pollution from every vehicle and industrialized...thing

its us, its the way we have constructed the world out of the many (infinite) alternatives

its the way we have CHOSE to interact, to LABEL, to ascribe symbol to give meaning to and the types of meaning we create and label toward others

autism and its causation is bigger than just the environment we have constructed



Janissy
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22 Dec 2010, 12:51 pm

The Neanderthal Theory of Autism seems to be based on the observation that a small percentage of modern humans carry Neanderthal DNA and a small percentage of modern humans are autistic and then jumping to the conclusion that these two very small subgroups must be one and the same. But why assume that? The most explicit Neanderthal/autism link you gave makes a number of guesses about Neanderthal behaviour and says it overlaps with Aspergian behaviour. But again that's based on a lot of guesswork about what Neanderthalbehaviour might have been.

The most convincing evidence would be to see if in fact the two subgroups really are one and the same: if the tiny percentage of people carrying Neanderthal DNA are the tiny percentage of people who are autistic. That would be convincing indeed. So far there doesn't seem to be any particular overlap although I don't think anybody has researchedautistic people specifically to see if they are carrying bits of Neanderthal DNA. The most famous carrier of Neanderthal DNA is Ozzy Osbourne and he isn't autistic.

I do think autism is genetic, or perhaps latently genetic with an enviromental trigger. But that doesn't mean the DNA leading to autism has to have come from Neanderthals. It would tie things up very neatly if it did. But wanting things to be true just because they are intriguing is wishful thinking rather than logical thinking.



Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 12:51 pm

nature is truth, humans live in nature, humans express nature, when man begins to fight nature by working against it, an illusion is made



Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 12:52 pm

Janissy wrote:
The Neanderthal Theory of Autism seems to be based on the observation that a small percentage of modern humans carry Neanderthal DNA and a small percentage of modern humans are autistic and then jumping to the conclusion that these two very small subgroups must be one and the same. But why assume that? The most explicit Neanderthal/autism link you gave makes a number of guesses about Neanderthal behaviour and says it overlaps with Aspergian behaviour. But again that's based on a lot of guesswork about what Neanderthalbehaviour might have been.

The most convincing evidence would be to see if in fact the two subgroups really are one and the same: if the tiny percentage of people carrying Neanderthal DNA are the tiny percentage of people who are autistic. That would be convincing indeed. So far there doesn't seem to be any particular overlap although I don't think anybody has researchedautistic people specifically to see if they are carrying bits of Neanderthal DNA. The most famous carrier of Neanderthal DNA is Ozzy Osbourne and he isn't autistic.

I do think autism is genetic, or perhaps latently genetic with an enviromental trigger. But that doesn't mean the DNA leading to autism has to have come from Neanderthals. It would tie things up very neatly if it did. But wanting things to be true just because they are intriguing is wishful thinking rather than logical thinking.


it is great to read this, you are motivating, thank you

on the other hand, "wanting things to be true", i don't know so much

it is less wishful thinking and more of who we really are

you can't argue nature, you just can't, we live in it

we are expressing this diversity now

theres nothing that needs to be solved or proved or and study that needs to be made (other than completing the genome)

its more or less "waking up"..."awareness" & understanding rather than the cause being "specifically neanderthal genes", the ultimate cause is genetic diversity

you cant cure nature it just is

it's a broader "perception"...



wavefreak58
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22 Dec 2010, 12:58 pm

Xenzaka wrote:
nature is truth, humans live in nature, humans express nature, when man begins to fight nature by working against it, an illusion is made


It is impossible to separate humans from nature. It is an illusion to call anything 'man made' as if it is somehow separate from the natural world. We modify the environment, but it is still the environment. We are the product of billions of years of evolution, and try as we may, cannot separate ourselves from that. Our buildings, our technology, our knowledge, none of this can be separated into the false dichotomy of man/nature. We are an intrinsic part of this universe. We are inseparable from it, no matter what labels we apply to ourselves. We are nature, and nature is us. We are not above nature, nor separate from it. We cannot fight nature because we ARE nature.


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Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 12:58 pm

Xenzaka wrote:
Janissy wrote:
The Neanderthal Theory of Autism seems to be based on the observation that a small percentage of modern humans carry Neanderthal DNA and a small percentage of modern humans are autistic and then jumping to the conclusion that these two very small subgroups must be one and the same. But why assume that? The most explicit Neanderthal/autism link you gave makes a number of guesses about Neanderthal behaviour and says it overlaps with Aspergian behaviour. But again that's based on a lot of guesswork about what Neanderthalbehaviour might have been.

The most convincing evidence would be to see if in fact the two subgroups really are one and the same: if the tiny percentage of people carrying Neanderthal DNA are the tiny percentage of people who are autistic. That would be convincing indeed. So far there doesn't seem to be any particular overlap although I don't think anybody has researchedautistic people specifically to see if they are carrying bits of Neanderthal DNA. The most famous carrier of Neanderthal DNA is Ozzy Osbourne and he isn't autistic.

I do think autism is genetic, or perhaps latently genetic with an enviromental trigger. But that doesn't mean the DNA leading to autism has to have come from Neanderthals. It would tie things up very neatly if it did. But wanting things to be true just because they are intriguing is wishful thinking rather than logical thinking.


it is great to read this, you are motivating, thank you

on the other hand, "wanting things to be true", i don't know so much

it is less wishful thinking and more of who we really are

you can't argue nature, you just can't, we live in it

we are expressing this diversity now

theres nothing that needs to be solved or proved or and study that needs to be made (other than completing the genome)

its more or less "waking up"..."awareness" & understanding rather than the cause being "specifically neanderthal genes", the ultimate cause is genetic diversity

you cant cure nature it just is

it's a broader "perception"...


can anyone see why this takes a long time to explain, on the internet, in a forum?

i wasn't being cocky, this is difficult stuff to expplain

its not just "this is the cause, thats the cause" the only cause is diversity

NOW whether that diversity is caused by our ancestors, thats up for you to decide, or myself or the future but as we know it, we derive from ancestors someway or another, and the only other ancestors available among a select few others.................were neanderthals



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22 Dec 2010, 1:00 pm

Xenzaka wrote:
i beg you to view the links, look at the information and see the patterns, i brought this here because i want to share this with everyone

people need to know we are all diverse more than it just seems, and together we are all the very same thing made in the very same image


Those links are not new. What makes you think we have not read them before you arrived?


You still haven't answered my question.

Are you on the spectrum?


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Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 1:00 pm

the more people multiply the more these genes spread

before we know it, this whole world might be an "autistic" world

or in other words, a world of preservation, self-knowledge, compassion, love and playfulness that we as autistics endure and exist in (in our world)



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22 Dec 2010, 1:04 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Xenzaka wrote:
nature is truth, humans live in nature, humans express nature, when man begins to fight nature by working against it, an illusion is made


It is impossible to separate humans from nature. It is an illusion to call anything 'man made' as if it is somehow separate from the natural world. We modify the environment, but it is still the environment. We are the product of billions of years of evolution, and try as we may, cannot separate ourselves from that. Our buildings, our technology, our knowledge, none of this can be separated into the false dichotomy of man/nature. We are an intrinsic part of this universe. We are inseparable from it, no matter what labels we apply to ourselves. We are nature, and nature is us. We are not above nature, nor separate from it. We cannot fight nature because we ARE nature.

Our bodies are used to certain conditions and if those conditions suddenly change. our bodies may or may not be able to cope.



Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 1:05 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Xenzaka wrote:
i beg you to view the links, look at the information and see the patterns, i brought this here because i want to share this with everyone

people need to know we are all diverse more than it just seems, and together we are all the very same thing made in the very same image


Those links are not new. What makes you think we have not read them before you arrived?


You still haven't answered my question.

Are you on the spectrum?


You need to pay attention. I did answer your question, go through the thread.

I am on the spectrum, yes

You can leave this thread anytime, as you are not contributing to any factor whatsoever

i'm sorry that those links are not new, if you have seen them before, why bother wasting time on it? just pass by

if this thread or topic is not of interest then leave


nothing makes me think you have or have not read them before, i could careless if you have i'm expressing, talking about whatever i want & can
if you have seen them before, great, cool, (now what?)
if you haven't seen them before, great, cool, view them
if you don't care, leave the thread, leave the topic, don't view them and continue with your personal life
if you do care, great, cool, view them

stop trying to bring the ego battles out this is not the purpose of the topic



wavefreak58
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22 Dec 2010, 1:07 pm

Xenzaka wrote:
the more people multiply the more these genes spread


This is false. The genes will spread only if some survival advantage to retaining them. There may be a temporary surge in the incidence of a particular trait, but if this proves a disadvantage, it will be pruned from the gene pool.

Quote:
before we know it, this whole world might be an "autistic" world


"Might be" is hardly a scientific conclusion. We "might" be dead tomorrow because of that undetected asteroid plummeting towards us.


Quote:
or in other words, a world of preservation, self-knowledge, compassion, love and playfulness that we as autistics endure and exist in (in our world)


So you ARE autistic. That explains your communication style. Are you verbal?


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Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 1:07 pm

Wavefreak, do you understand? Stop trying to make this a warzone. I'm just posting, in a thread, on an internet forum, talking about my thoughts, views on Autism to people I have and never will meet. Can you accept that and let me be? If you have seen the material before, really, congratulations...I'm not sure what else to tell you.

If you haven't that's great too, ya know?

Really though. Let it go.

Do you have questions? I'm willing to answer. What do you want from me?



Xenzaka
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22 Dec 2010, 1:08 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:
Xenzaka wrote:
nature is truth, humans live in nature, humans express nature, when man begins to fight nature by working against it, an illusion is made


It is impossible to separate humans from nature. It is an illusion to call anything 'man made' as if it is somehow separate from the natural world. We modify the environment, but it is still the environment. We are the product of billions of years of evolution, and try as we may, cannot separate ourselves from that. Our buildings, our technology, our knowledge, none of this can be separated into the false dichotomy of man/nature. We are an intrinsic part of this universe. We are inseparable from it, no matter what labels we apply to ourselves. We are nature, and nature is us. We are not above nature, nor separate from it. We cannot fight nature because we ARE nature.


I'm glad there is one single thing we can agree on. Sh!t.



wavefreak58
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22 Dec 2010, 1:09 pm

Xenzaka wrote:
Wavefreak, do you understand? Stop trying to make this a warzone. I'm just posting, in a thread, on an internet forum, talking about my thoughts, views on Autism to people I have and never will meet. Can you accept that and let me be? If you have seen the material before, really, congratulations...I'm not sure what else to tell you.

If you haven't that's great too, ya know?

Really though. Let it go.

Do you have questions? I'm willing to answer. What do you want from me?


I asked you a question or two. I am awaiting a response.


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22 Dec 2010, 1:12 pm

wavefreak58 wrote:

This is false. The genes will spread only if some survival advantage to retaining them. There may be a temporary surge in the incidence of a particular trait, but if this proves a disadvantage, it will be pruned from the gene pool.


But is this always true? Human beings have proved it's not always the case. Natural selection isn't always in affect. We have proved that natural selection doesn't always factor in by regulating our own reproduction and producing domesticated animals where we decide various characteristics and traits in the offspring. These traits aren't always survival traits that would occur in the wild.