Calling Aspergers autism? why?

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There is a lot of research that points to a large number of similarities in terms of presentation and outcome between people diagnosed with AS and people diagnosed with autism, who are described as HFA.

However, I do not believe what you are seeing is people saying there is no difference between people diagnosed with AS and people diagnosed with HFA. I believe what you are seeing is people saying that there's a lot more overlap than many realize.



There's more to it than that. A lot of people describe problems that... they're not trivial, but in many ways they're not even apparent to me because I lack something that would make such things painful to me, or even less likely to experience them. It's hard for me to have a relationship, but I don't consider having a relationship to be so overwhelmingly important that such a thing causes me pain, whereas it is important to a lot of people here.



In my own post, where I explained that I cannot always explain where and how I am hurt in a clear manner, I made a point of saying that this is not like being nonverbal. I also said that being verbal doesn't mean being able to communicate clearly in all situations.



What WanderingStranger said is that there are multiple issues that people with HFA experience that people with AS do not - but she mentioned the speech issue when I asked what they were.

The thing about the speech delay is that it is not mandatory for an autism diagnosis, but a lack of an apparent speech delay is mandatory for AS. I say apparent because someone may have a speech delay go unnoticed because they're able to talk and can make responses that appear relevant, but it may be a matter of echolalia and pattern matching. Or may have other issues with speech (such as the inability to sustain a conversation) that would qualify for an autism diagnosis.

In the DSM-5 rationale for the change includes a few explanations: One is that what you are diagnosed with often depends on where you are diagnosed. Some clinics favor autism diagnoses, some favor Asperger's diagnoses, and some favor PDD-NOS diagnoses. Another is that a large number of those diagnosed with AS actually do meet the autism criteria, but were not diagnosed because they were verbal - even though being verbal does not exclude autism, and even though an autism diagnosis should supercede an Asperger's diagnosis. So, the argument that "You were diagnosed with AS instead of autism because of this thing" may not be applicable to many people, as they may have received an AS diagnosis because the clinic they went to favors AS over autism.

It's also a lot to assume that someone who is diagnosed with AS as an adult didn't have any developmental delays as a child.



You are right in that I probably would not go a full year without talking, although I can go a week at a time, and I only lose speech for at most 2-3 days at a time. I am not saying that being verbal and having communication difficulties is just like being nonverbal, but that being able to talk doesn't mean being able to communicate clearly at all times, or being able to communicate some things clearly at any time. Communication impairments are still present if one is verbal. They are not the same as being nonverbal, obviously, because one can speak and communicate, even if not perfectly.

I do not think I am non verbal. I can get words out. Just it is very hard and people can not understand what the words is. I have gone for years with out any words. The last 2 years I sudenly started improving I can get some words out. but I would like to just say "I can not do that" when my carers or theripiys are trying to make me do somhting I can not. Or I would like for some one to talk to me. Instad of just people with me. I have some good people who do talk to me but mostly people just say orders. But mostly people stay away from me. Peopel are afraid of me. I know I am improving but it is so much hard work. I know some peopel with asperger. When I am in a room peopel know I have autism. They stay away. I look difernt. The asperger person who is a man no one knows. he can stay in the room. He can say to a person "I find this hard becuase I have aspergers" I can not. Even if I try all my life I migth never be able to say "I find this hard becuase i have autism". Am I less smart than him. No. People think I am stupid. I am not smart maby. But also not stupid. My paretns were told that I was sevearly ret*d. they did a IQ when I was a adult and found out I with in noraml levels of IQ. In some things I got scroes like a 5 year old. at some things I got scores like a gifted person. I think asperger is a type of autism. I think high fuctioning autism is a type. I think they have some things the same and somthigns diferent. I have high fuctiongin autism. I am like the man with asperger in some ways. But it is easy to see how difernt we are also.

Also. I do not think people with asperger do not find thigns hard. but maby diferent things. they do nto need so many years of therpy to learn to talk. But they need years of theripy to learn how to do things like cooking and social things. But it is very furstiting when peopel say that the only difernce is speech so it is the smae thing. Spech is a big thing.

Also, SkyHeart, I apologize if my response trivialized your difficulties or what you were saying. I wasn't trying to do so, but I know how easy it is to do anyway.

Quite frankly I think I'm more comfortable with autistic - it seems easier than having to say "I have ass burgers"

One thing I just remembered about my own diagnosis is that the doctor called what I had ASD and mentioned aspergers too. Are they two different things or is ASD the new name for the latter?

Asperger's Syndrome will, along with childhood disintegrative disorder, autism, and pervasive developmental disorder - not otherwise specified (PDD-NOS) be grouped under the umbrella diagnosis of "autism spectrum disorder" in the DSM-5.

Back when I got diagnosed, they were apparently two different things but they were both on the same spectrum. Now they have both become the same and are now autism. I have noticed the word Asperger's is being phased out and people are just using the word autism now. I even heard it in Parenthood in the episode where Max was supposed to be going to the museum but both his parents had to work that weekend so he took himself there and his mom said he was autistic when she called the police. In the earlier episodes, they used the word Asperger's. In my autism groups, it is nor autism than AS.

ASD is a more general term, which includes Asperger's Syndrome.

(It also includes 4 other disorders: Classic Autism, Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified, Rett's Syndrome, and the very rare Childhood Disintegrative Disorder.)

Last edited by scubasteve on 14 May 2012, 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've learned to do the "small talk" and 'appear' to get emotionally involved on these protracted social scenarios. I look at it as giving or filling a want in other people, and I spoon feed that need back. This gives me a rational way or means to interface these people scenarios -- an impetus for an altruistic *act* if you will.

It took me an inordinate amount of time and effort to understand how people think as to be able to do this. A late maturity or a lack in "theory of mind" is an accurate description.
There is this *unusualness* present within me, and I have had to learn to break down that barrier to survive in this world.

I recall sitting in class in the 4th grade at my desk, and the horror this scenario that is outlined in this poster, impacted me to a startling degree--- I said to myself that this is going to be quite a fight to know how to survive this-- "to know people, though there is an inherent lack of interest in it-- I have to find a way to develop this." * Spooked*

In 1973 I remember watching Winnie the Pooh on Sunday evening, and these thoughts here would force there way into my mind. It would create a near state of shock in me-- it would steal your breath away--- no kidding here.

I have no doubt that the scope of this is unusual, and I certainly believe 'simple introversion' or "it" combined with shyness doesn't close this gap in explanatory power.

I used to believe that perhaps that my ADHD executive dysfunction was the root cause of this.

But I'm almost certain I hit BAP or borderline AS-- I can find no other explanation for these difficulties.

This is true now, but in the DSM-5, Rett Syndrome is being removed from the PDD/autism category.

There may be a difference between some particular person with AS and some other particular person with HFA. Problem is, when you see enough people, you can no longer draw any dividing line. There is a wide range of people stretching from "classic mild AS" through to "classic HFA" (whatever those classic types are taken to mean) - and everything in between. "Some" people are "obviously" AS or HFA - but far too many are not so easily categorised. The categories don't make sense when you look at a whole population of Dx'd people, they only seem to make sense if you hand-pick individual cases. That is why AS and classic autism and PDD-NOS are being replaced with ASD - there is no reliable way of classifying people inside that broad grouping (although people are going to try to put us into levels based on how much support we need).

Ok, but if Asperger's and Classic Autism are close enough that individual differences muddy the categories... Couldn't the same be said of Asperger's and ADHD?

Based on my own life, it is hard for me to see the fundamental difference between autism and AS, and I think that AS is autism.

Between ASD and ADHD, I see fundamental differences, and I think that ADHD is ADHD, and autism is autism, and ADHD and ASD are not on the same spectrum.

Based on my own life, I see far more similarities between AS and ADHD than I do between AS and Autism.

Of course, "based on my own life" is hardly an objective measure...

But I'd be interested to hear how other members feel about this.

In some respects I would agree that ADHD and ASD form a broader spectrum of disorders. My understanding is that the majority of people currently Dx'd with AS would meet some or all of the criteria for ADHD. In fact, the current DSM states that you should not diagnose ADHD if the person satisfies the criteria for an ASD at the same time, which suggests a similarity or overlap in characteristics (e.g. executive function problems).

However, the people who put the DSM together claim that they can distinguish between ASD and other disorders with greater reliability than they can distinguish between AS and classic autism:

This claim is based on fairly extensive statistical studies. That's why they want to keep the broader category (ASD) but abolish the narrower ones (AS, autism, PDD-NOS). Clinicians don't have the same problem distinguishing between ASD and ADHD that they have distinguishing between autism and AS and PDD-NOS.