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Alicorn
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20 Nov 2006, 7:20 pm

GenericBrandUserName wrote:
I'm gonna start my own group: Cure Neurotypicals Now.


You will be posting a link when the page goes up, right?



willow
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20 Nov 2006, 8:06 pm

Fraya wrote:
Well said but while I agree there should be a choice the problem is that if a cure is available there are many many people who will not be given the choice.

A prenatal test = 90%+ of unborn babies wont get to decide if they live with it or die.

A cure = a great majority of parents who force it upon their children because its what the parents want regardless of how the child feels about it.

A choice is only a good thing when the choice isnt made for you.



true.

but that could be said for any other neurological problem/disorder/disease out there.

I find it horrifying that I was offered a test (when I was pregnant) to check for downs syndrome. the thought that anyone would abort a fetus because of something like that horrified me...but I still believe people have the right to know, if they wish, and the right to make a different choice than I would.

you are absolutely right that some people would make a "wrong" choice..but that doesn't negate the need for all people to be able to have SOME choice in the matter.


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20 Nov 2006, 8:53 pm

Willow,

You make several good points but I bet I can shut everyone of them down with a few points.

1. A cure, if it is ever found, will probably be found WITHOUT this money.
2. Most of these are scams. Does the money even go anywhere?
3. A cure will likely cost a lot, and more likely will be some long treatment. The test for it will be more likely, and probably happen first.

HECK, just look at what they did with depression! When ever my boss calls he says "YOU sound good". Today may have been the first time he said that when I really was. The other times I was just too depressed.

I will dispense with the beauty in the eye of the beholder observations. Will there be a distinction between more normal appearing AS people, and the other extreme? It would be a shame if someone was misled the child was someone they definately DIDN'T want, when it would have been someone they would have been proud of.

A good example would be a test for an improper split of a zygote! They could have thought OH MY GOSH, siamese twins, when they ended up being monozygotic but normal twins.

Steve



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20 Nov 2006, 9:44 pm

I mean no disrespect...I respect both you, and your opinion.


that being said...the following bullet points...

"1. A cure, if it is ever found, will probably be found WITHOUT this money.
2. Most of these are scams. Does the money even go anywhere?
3. A cure will likely cost a lot, and more likely will be some long treatment. The test for it will be more likely, and probably happen first. "

are your opinions, and are not based on fact.

1. - I don't know how you could assume this...considering the vast public ignorance to autism. why would scientists study it if they had to pay for it themselves? I am part of AGRE, because I have more than one family member with autism. in order to study my family's genes, there will be nurses, techs, therapists and psychologists all coming to my home to evaluate my entire family, take our blood, etc. I am participating, because I think it is important work. it is cost free to me. would I still do it if I had to pay? the sad reply is "maybe". we all have financial boundaries...and answers shouldn't be prevented because of cost.

2. - I would ask for proof that "most of these" are scams...and the "most" that you speak of. are there scams? of course. we live on a planet full of evil. we must not let our cynicsm rule us, however.

3. - again, I ask for proof, rather than opinion. if that is your opinion, I say, you may be correct. but we will never know until we try. if you have proof, I would relish it. there isn't a day that passes I don't battle with myself over the "controversy".


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Remnant
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20 Nov 2006, 10:06 pm

Willow, have you ever read "Dibs, in Search of Self"?



willow
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20 Nov 2006, 10:09 pm

Remnant wrote:
Willow, have you ever read "Dibs, in Search of Self"?



no. would you recommend it? I love to read.


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Remnant
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20 Nov 2006, 10:25 pm

I definitely recommend it. You should be able to find it on Amazon.com



willow
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20 Nov 2006, 10:28 pm

Remnant wrote:
I definitely recommend it. You should be able to find it on Amazon.com


I found it...and am ordering it. thank you.


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atxa
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20 Nov 2006, 10:44 pm

Sorry but I don't understand the meaning of cure the autism, do you mean cure alive people who are autism or do you mean prevent autism to future baby who will born.

I don't know too much about biology but I read several times on the internet that peoples with Asperger and/or autism, they have some specific missing chromosones, so something is missing somewhere, so you can cure that, surgery is kinda impossible for that.

Am I wrong ?



willow
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20 Nov 2006, 10:54 pm

atxa wrote:
Sorry but I don't understand the meaning of cure the autism, do you mean cure alive people who are autism or do you mean prevent autism to future baby who will born.

I don't know too much about biology but I read several times on the internet that peoples with Asperger and/or autism, they have some specific missing chromosones, so something is missing somewhere, so you can cure that, surgery is kinda impossible for that.

Am I wrong ?


I didn't understand some of what you wrote...but CAN's objective is to find a cause, so people have access to a cure.

I have never heard anyone speak of testing for autism prenatal, or to offer termination choices.


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20 Nov 2006, 10:54 pm

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but THEY should have a choice. just as some persons in the deaf community choose to have implants that allow them to hear (even though some other deaf people say they aren't "embracing their heritage"). I support the genetic research because my kids have a right to know what makes them tick, instead of just getting a vague explanation. the ALSO deserve the right to decide if they want to be "cured".


First of all, being deaf is a sensory disability, not a different state of mind, there's a huge difference.

Second, most children will not have a choice whenever or not they want a cure, because most parents will simply opt for a cure the moment the diagnosis is made. So technically with such a situation, no-one will have a choice unless the parents don't opt for it. So in other words, a cure will be forced on Autistic children without their say. I consider such a action (if forced upon people by any other person) as a form of cleansing and violation of human rights.

Not to mention, you'll likely get extremist groups developing who want to eradicate Autism like it's the black plague, and will round up and force cures on all of us by brainwashing (ie: Making the Autistic person feel horrible and guilty of being the way they are, and give false salvation) or brainwash parents to force cures onto their Autistic children. It's human nature to fear and/or hate what is different, it's a savage primitive instinct humanity still possess and if you think they'll responsibly use the *cure* and give choices, think again. It'd take a while, but some idiot would come along and get into politics and introduce a bill to force cure all Autistics to save taxpayers money on education programs, and some countries will pass it because greed to save money will speak louder than morality.

I've seen enough hate and intolerance in the world to know how savage humans are, I don't ever trust such ideas.


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atxa
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20 Nov 2006, 11:14 pm

willow wrote:
I have never heard anyone speak of testing for autism prenatal, or to offer termination choices.


No, I would said, stop the autism forever. So the new babies in the future, they will not be autism.

I'm sorry, I need to get some english courses :D



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20 Nov 2006, 11:43 pm

Quote:
but THEY should have a choice. just as some persons in the deaf community choose to have implants that allow them to hear (even though some other deaf people say they aren't "embracing their heritage"). I support the genetic research because my kids have a right to know what makes them tick, instead of just getting a vague explanation. the ALSO deserve the right to decide if they want to be "cured".


The deaf generally don't get a choice over the implants they may recieve. Many states have begun to require that deaf children be given the implants citing that deaf parents are incapable to parent. Even then, those implants hardly ever work and it destroys brain tissue in the process for nothing. The foster parents of most of those deaf children are also generally horrible parents. Many deaf children die because of the implant surgery or because of neglecting parents who can't understand when their child needs things such as water. On a side note, if a child dies from neglect but the child is deaf, the parents suffer no consequences. The Deaf community has it pretty bad sometimes even worse than us.

Until we can splice genes there can not be a cure for Autism. There is no need for a cure either provided the world becomes more accepting to difference as opposed to offended by it. However as we know from history...some things never change :(



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20 Nov 2006, 11:51 pm

The lesser the number of Aspies the less flavor the world has.


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rdos
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21 Nov 2006, 12:52 am

willow wrote:
atxa wrote:
Sorry but I don't understand the meaning of cure the autism, do you mean cure alive people who are autism or do you mean prevent autism to future baby who will born.

I don't know too much about biology but I read several times on the internet that peoples with Asperger and/or autism, they have some specific missing chromosones, so something is missing somewhere, so you can cure that, surgery is kinda impossible for that.

Am I wrong ?


I didn't understand some of what you wrote...but CAN's objective is to find a cause, so people have access to a cure.

I have never heard anyone speak of testing for autism prenatal, or to offer termination choices.


Finding the cause is not the same thing as finding a cure.

CAN are just too optimistic about a cure. They are assuming that autism is caused by some simple genetic quirk that can be fixed. This simple view of autism have already more or less been disproved.

What their genetic research will inevitably end up with is instead a multigenetic autism test that cannot be used for a cure, but can be used for aborting autistic fetuses.

However, I'm quite optimistic that the Neanderthal genome project will be in a shape suitable for comparison with autistic genes before a prenatal test for autism is available for mass-usage.



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21 Nov 2006, 2:11 am

For anyone doubting that cures or treatments aren't likely to be forced-this is already going on. You only need to do a search on chelation, vitamin B12 shots, Hyperbaric Oxygen Treatments, ABA therapy, Sonrise. You name it, it's out there. Not to mention the dope that doctors push for children, drugs that aren't approved for autistic kids.
When my son was first referred to a neurologist at age 2 1/2, the doc suggested/offered Ritalin to calm him down. To make it easier on ME!! ! I asked if it was studied on autistic people and he said, "no, it's experimental". On a 2 year old!! ! :X
Chelation is administered by IV, you on kids that might not be able to sit still. So they are restrained and forced an injection. And again, this isn't something that is even proven or likely to cure.
There are older survivors of various therapies that have horror stories to tell. These are from what other people call "cures" because parents/doctors/teachers "want their real kids back".

I was shocked when I was pregnant and they ordered me back for a sonogram because they thought I had a Down's Syndrome baby. I was 4 months pregnant and had no idea that 90% of mothers abort Down's Syndrome babies. disgusting

Anybody denying that this isn't widespread is just willfulling being ignorant, because the information is out there. There are scores of "nice people" out there trying to eradicate Autism out of their children.