Is Asperger's Syndrome worse than Schizophrenia

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Raziel
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14 May 2013, 10:52 am

nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
Webalina wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
And in terms of how people view you, Bipolar Disorder deserves a special mention, out of the people I've met and so on, most people believe that BD is at least 90% fake.


I don't believe Bipolar Disorder is fake, but I do believe that it's misunderstood and over-diagnosed. I know several people -- mostly high school and college-age females -- who claim to be bipolar based solely on the fact that they have an explosive temper. There is no evidence of black depression or extreme elation, no evidence of risky behaviors or brilliant creativity or thoughts of suicide. It's just "I get mad easily, therefore I must be bipolar".


Well, self-diagnoses are always risky, but especially Bipolar is hard to diagnose correctly and is both under- and overdiagnosed. I've a mood chard I've to show to my psychiatrist and my psychotherapist and my mood is messured carefully for the last months because of a bipolar suspicion and they don't want to missdiagnose me. Especially with Bipolar II this diagnoses usually can't be made in just one session like many other diagnoses.

nessa238 wrote:
One may also wish to read the German original oneself, which can be found through the hyper reference at the beginning of the present paragraph."

"What does Autistischen Psychopathen mean?


It's "die autistischen Psychopathen", but "autistische Psychopathen".

autistisch means autistic and Psychoathen is not the same thing we mean by it today. It meant something similar like personality disorder back than in the german speaking countries, that the disorder is not caused by external influences, but by internal, so that it's more neurological and you're pretty much born with. That's why Hans Asperger chose that term and "autistisch" is borrowed from schizophrenia, but what Hans Asperger meant was that those people are more invert and that's a certain way to think and see the world, he himself didn't see them as schizophrenic. I wrote his reports on it in German.


You wrote Hans Asperger's reports? I thought he wrote them himself


I meant I read them. English is not my nativ language, but German is.
It was a typo, I hope with this it is clear.


He said schizophrenia was a worse form of autism, implying they are the same type of condition


So far I remember he wrote that schizophrenia and autism are two different condition, but in his later writings he mentioned Kanner and also that in the US it is considered as a part of schizophrenia and noticed that they have a broader view on schizophrenia. In the beginnings he didn't know of Leo Kanner, but in the later years he did and also mentioned him.


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nessa238
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14 May 2013, 10:55 am

Raziel wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
Webalina wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
And in terms of how people view you, Bipolar Disorder deserves a special mention, out of the people I've met and so on, most people believe that BD is at least 90% fake.


I don't believe Bipolar Disorder is fake, but I do believe that it's misunderstood and over-diagnosed. I know several people -- mostly high school and college-age females -- who claim to be bipolar based solely on the fact that they have an explosive temper. There is no evidence of black depression or extreme elation, no evidence of risky behaviors or brilliant creativity or thoughts of suicide. It's just "I get mad easily, therefore I must be bipolar".


Well, self-diagnoses are always risky, but especially Bipolar is hard to diagnose correctly and is both under- and overdiagnosed. I've a mood chard I've to show to my psychiatrist and my psychotherapist and my mood is messured carefully for the last months because of a bipolar suspicion and they don't want to missdiagnose me. Especially with Bipolar II this diagnoses usually can't be made in just one session like many other diagnoses.

nessa238 wrote:
One may also wish to read the German original oneself, which can be found through the hyper reference at the beginning of the present paragraph."

"What does Autistischen Psychopathen mean?


It's "die autistischen Psychopathen", but "autistische Psychopathen".

autistisch means autistic and Psychoathen is not the same thing we mean by it today. It meant something similar like personality disorder back than in the german speaking countries, that the disorder is not caused by external influences, but by internal, so that it's more neurological and you're pretty much born with. That's why Hans Asperger chose that term and "autistisch" is borrowed from schizophrenia, but what Hans Asperger meant was that those people are more invert and that's a certain way to think and see the world, he himself didn't see them as schizophrenic. I wrote his reports on it in German.


You wrote Hans Asperger's reports? I thought he wrote them himself


I meant I read them. English is not my nativ language, but German is.
It was a typo, I hope with this it is clear.


He said schizophrenia was a worse form of autism, implying they are the same type of condition


So far I remember he wrote that schizophrenia and autism are two different condition, but in his later writings he mentioned Kanner and also that in the US it is considered as a part of schizophrenia and noticed that they have a broader view on schizophrenia. In the beginnings he didn't know of Leo Kanner, but in the later years he did and also mentioned him.


Interesting

You're lucky to be able to read Hans Asperger's work in the original language


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Raziel
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14 May 2013, 11:18 am

nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Raziel wrote:
Webalina wrote:
Ensiferum wrote:
And in terms of how people view you, Bipolar Disorder deserves a special mention, out of the people I've met and so on, most people believe that BD is at least 90% fake.


I don't believe Bipolar Disorder is fake, but I do believe that it's misunderstood and over-diagnosed. I know several people -- mostly high school and college-age females -- who claim to be bipolar based solely on the fact that they have an explosive temper. There is no evidence of black depression or extreme elation, no evidence of risky behaviors or brilliant creativity or thoughts of suicide. It's just "I get mad easily, therefore I must be bipolar".


Well, self-diagnoses are always risky, but especially Bipolar is hard to diagnose correctly and is both under- and overdiagnosed. I've a mood chard I've to show to my psychiatrist and my psychotherapist and my mood is messured carefully for the last months because of a bipolar suspicion and they don't want to missdiagnose me. Especially with Bipolar II this diagnoses usually can't be made in just one session like many other diagnoses.

nessa238 wrote:
One may also wish to read the German original oneself, which can be found through the hyper reference at the beginning of the present paragraph."

"What does Autistischen Psychopathen mean?


It's "die autistischen Psychopathen", but "autistische Psychopathen".

autistisch means autistic and Psychoathen is not the same thing we mean by it today. It meant something similar like personality disorder back than in the german speaking countries, that the disorder is not caused by external influences, but by internal, so that it's more neurological and you're pretty much born with. That's why Hans Asperger chose that term and "autistisch" is borrowed from schizophrenia, but what Hans Asperger meant was that those people are more invert and that's a certain way to think and see the world, he himself didn't see them as schizophrenic. I wrote his reports on it in German.


You wrote Hans Asperger's reports? I thought he wrote them himself


I meant I read them. English is not my nativ language, but German is.
It was a typo, I hope with this it is clear.


He said schizophrenia was a worse form of autism, implying they are the same type of condition


So far I remember he wrote that schizophrenia and autism are two different condition, but in his later writings he mentioned Kanner and also that in the US it is considered as a part of schizophrenia and noticed that they have a broader view on schizophrenia. In the beginnings he didn't know of Leo Kanner, but in the later years he did and also mentioned him.


Interesting

You're lucky to be able to read Hans Asperger's work in the original language


Maybe I find them again, I have them somewere and then I could quote out of it. :)


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nessa238
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14 May 2013, 11:24 am

Raziel wrote:
Maybe I find them again, I have them somewere and then I could quote out of it. :)


That would be really good! :D


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14 May 2013, 3:27 pm

SteelMaiden wrote:
I have schizophrenia and AS.

Schizophrenia is WAY worse than AS. I have been sectioned 7 times, five of those times involved four police officers sitting on top of me and handcuffing me while I was screaming and kicking, heavily delusional (thinking that the police were Spies trying to kill me) and hallucinating continuously. Voices are evil. Seeing Spies on the streets, scanning my brain and following me is terrifying. I have had a huge amount of hospital admissions. I've been on secure units being watched constantly by two nurses, because I was so ill and such a severe risk.

Even now, while I am on two antipsychotics (and dealing with the numerous side-effects that come with them, including being exhausted for most of the day and having put on 14 kg), I have several times a day where the voices attack me, and I just want to scream "F*** OFF YOU F***ING BASTARDS!! !" but I have to stop myself. I end up listening to music all day. Paranoia is also crippling and I have been housebound for over a week or two at a time because of my fears of persecution and Spying.

If I could swap my schizophrenia for AS that is even more severe than my AS already is (my AS is classified as "severe"), I would.


I am so sorry for the suffering you are experiencing. You are very brave.

If you even care to share, when you know its not true but a hallucination, how do you deal with it since the interpretation of it being real seems and feels at the time to be the truth, but yet after all your experience you are probably beginning to realize on some level and in some part of yourself that it is not really true?



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14 May 2013, 4:29 pm

I think it depends on the individual and how it effects them, though I'd assume schizophrenia is typically worse given the typical symptoms of it.


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14 May 2013, 4:30 pm

Sorry to cut in...

But what's Schizophrenia?

I mean, I've heard of it - but I don't quite know the symptoms...


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Wrongbilly
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14 May 2013, 4:49 pm

Schizophrenia is normally diagnosed when someone hears voices and sees things that aren't there. That is of course a potted diagnosis. I am Autistic and Schizophrenic. I fall into the overlap section. That is to say I do not have Aspergers but I am Autistic. I hear people talking to me and about me. I see people that aren't really there.

I am very introverted in my Autism, I have no friends, I do not need any , I do not want any. Lots of people I have met would be happy to be my friend but I am not interested.

How does one deal with things that they believe to be seen and yet realise later that they are not there? I first realised when I saw someone walking towards me, approx. twenty feet away. I looked away for a second, when I looked back he wasn't there. As he was walking by railings there was nowhere that he could have gone, he had just disappeared. Another time I walked round a corner and nearly tripped over a pushchair being pushed by a young woman. I stepped over the first wheel and nearly fell onto the buggy. As I regained my balance I looked behind me and there was nobody there.
These two instances are ones that I can be sure of, but there have been many others.

I don`t have to deal with them ... After they happen they are only vague memories.

Lastly, I don`t think one is worse than the other.



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14 May 2013, 4:56 pm

celebrei wrote:
he has friends and a social life despite his mental disease and yet those with aspergers who may not have entered the doorstep of an asylum once in their lives does not have friends or a social life like the schizo guy, so isn't it better to have schizophrenia than asperger's syndrome?


Whether that makes one of the two better depends on how much you value friends and a social life. I find them to be unimportant.



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14 May 2013, 4:57 pm

pensieve wrote:
How is this even a question? Don't give me that mild schizophrenia BS too. When the OP asked about schizophrenia they were thinking of what most people know as schizophrenia.


^^^

Everything Pensieve said.



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14 May 2013, 5:24 pm

Hm...

I'm going to say that Autism is worse by the sole fact that in some absurd way, that actually sounds kind of cool.

:lol:

Not saying there's anything wrong with Autism though XD.


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14 May 2013, 6:57 pm

Wow, there's a lot of stigma against Schizophrenia in this thread.

1. Asperger's is more than poor social skills.

2. Most people with schizophrenia do work. Most people with schizophrenia are not permanently institutionalized.

3. This isn't a reasonable question to ask.


There are things that schizophrenics need to deal with that I don't need to deal with. There are things that I need to deal with that they don't. There are things we both need to deal with. It's not a simple question of "better" or "worse". People are disabled. People are disabled with overlapping symptoms and highly stigmatized conditions. Different individuals need to deal with different things. Some people can work. Others can't. Some people can take care of self-care. Others can't. Some people can go out at night. Other's can't.

It's all a question of individuals, and individual abilities.

It's not a question of who has to deal with more, it doesn't matter who has to deal with more. For SteelMaiden her schizophrenia is worse. That matters, because she can say that. Yet I also know both people with schizophrenia and people with Asperger's, where the people with schizophrenia, despite the hallucinations and the paranoia, are capable of a lot more in their daily life, than those with Asperger's, even unmedicated.

I know people with Asperger's who can do things that people with schizophrenia can't do.

I know people with Schizophrenia who can do things that people with Asperger's can't.

I know pairs of people where both of them have things each other can't do.

It's not "better" or "worse", or "more able" or "less able".

It's "people", and its "people don't really understand schizophrenia or autism very well".

Schizophrenia is harsh. We really should go and support those with schizophrenia. They share enough of our symptoms. And they need to deal with hallucinations, delusions, paranoia, and all of that as well.

But its not a death sentence either - just like autism isn't.

So really, what it comes down to is.

Lets not talk about which is worse. Because its not a relevant question.

Let's talk about people instead. Because that's what is actually relevant.



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14 May 2013, 7:07 pm

I don't feel that Aspies are any worse or any better than anybody else.


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14 May 2013, 7:18 pm

nessa238 wrote:
mikassyna wrote:
I am not sure why Asperger would have considered schizophrenia similar to a severe autism in any respect. Primarily the fact that schizophrenics often have delusions and/or auditory hallucinations, and cannot seem to distinguish reality from the hallucinations their brains produce. I do not know of any autistics that have hallucinations. Heightened senses perhaps, but so do bipolars and creative/gifted people. The hallucinations and delusions are specific to schizophrenia.


Well that's what Hans Asperger himself thought anyway


I think you are a bit confused about the meaning of the word "autism" in that context.

The word "autism" was invented by Bleur to designate the tendency of schizophrenics to live in is fantasy, internal, world and loose the connection to the real, external, world. It was in that meaning ("autism" as a symptom of schizophrenia) that the word was used when Asperger wrote his works.

The "modern" meaning of autism (as "a neurological disorder associated with low social skills, rigid routines and restricted interests") was a result of the works of Asperger and Kanner and, of course, only becomes to be used in common language after that.

Btw, I have an encyclopedia (published in 1981) where autism is defined as "preference for subjective mental states over objective mental states" (an example that, until very recently, in some countries "autism" was a meaning very different from his present "clinical" meaning)



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14 May 2013, 9:43 pm

Its perfectly possible for a Asperger to have a social life, I don´t know what your talking about. Schizo seems way worse.

It will just be different in every aspect for you and u´ll have to work it out, but its achievable.


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15 May 2013, 12:25 am

As someone who has both, I don't think that it's possible to say that one is "worse" than the other. It all depends on the individual and their unique situation.

Personally, I don't know which one has caused me more difficulty in my life. The schizophrenia made my life a living hell before I found the right medication regimen, but the autism has given me lifelong struggles that most people with schizophrenia don't deal with until after the onset of their psychosis. The combination of both disorders has affected my functioning in various ways.