How many people do you think R born NT & develop into As

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You don't seem to know that much about the condition you claim to have.[/quote]


shut the hell up yes I do I know just as much as everyone else with aspergers you f*****g c**t

Temper, temper.
No, you don't.

"There is no clinically significant general delay in language"

"There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood."

http://www.autreat.com/dsm4-aspergers.html

SHUT THE HELL UP, yes I god dam do know a lot about Aspergers syndrome you f*****g prick. You know that is a really stupid thing to say that I know very little about AS, I know A LOT from experience and from what I've read.

This does not prove you didn't have it previously.



It's not uncommon for misdiagnosis to occur a number of times before a correct diagnosis is arrived at. It can take years. Just because you had some negative results doesn't mean to didn't have it.

If you have AS, you've had AS all along. AS doesn't necessarily progress linearly. I was also quite social as a child, however because of my odd behaviors others did not understand, ostracism and trying to fit in wore on me over time, to the point that trait's became more and more noticeable. That is very common for many of us.

AS is very frequently missed at younger ages due to a number of difficulties in testing accurately, among which can be the amount of social exposure the child has, the level of cooperation the child gives to the examiner (less cooperation is likely to result in no diagnosis because the examiner can't get the results needed). These are but two example of many different reasons false negatives can result from evaluations.

If your current diagnosis is correct, and you have AS, you have always had it. If you did not have it previously, you've never had it, and your current diagnosis is incorrect.

If you have it now, you were born with it, and it's been missed all these years. That is quite common.

Okay well then I was misinformed by my psychiatrist about that, But if I had been born with low functioning or some might say passive Aspergers syndrome and it had gone unnoticed and undiagnosed by everyone,
I still would of experienced many of the factors of it in early to late childhood but I didn't, I wasn't socially awkward I was perfectly cable of the same things an NT would be until after the epilepsy surgery that I had.
In childhood Aspergers the most noticeable factors might be inability to make friends, Awkward interaction with peers, possibly sensory issues with sounds or sensitivity to colors or lights, little or no empathy for others and lack of socials cues and rules as well as many others but I never had any of these even looking back in Hindsight.
I will happily admit i'm wrong if someone can explain to me how it could of been that I had no factors for so many years only until after a serious operation, But I know I am not wrong when I say that I do know a lot about the condition from experience and fro what I have read so it is not fair to just outright say I know very little, just because I was misinformed about something doesn't mean I know very little your only basing that conclusion on one of the comments I gave.

well that puts things in perspective

1. ASDs (including Asperger Syndrome) are developmental disorders. To have an ASD, you must have been born with it. However, some people on the milder end of the spectrum may not have been identified as such, especially if they were good at creating coping strategies, until something happens that makes things more difficult for them (for many it might be the transition to secondary schooling, for example). Or they may not be identified because in spite of obvious difficulties in certain areas, their parents don't believe it was a problem - my case is a mixture of the above too ... I clearly had ASD behaviours from birth (even as a baby) but my parents did not see them as a problem. I created my own coping strategies, and also identified that I may have an ASD from experience of working with folk on the spectrum. It wasn't until my coping strategies fell apart a couple of years ago that I was diagnosed.

So for you to have AS, you must have been born with it, whether it was identified or not.

2. You said these ASD behaviours started after your brain surgery. I have a friend - probably my only true friend, and certainly the only one who "gets" me - who had a stroke, and to all intents and purposes could now be described as having an ASD because of her behaviours and difficulties. Except she was not born with it. The autism specialist I saw for a second opinion diagnosis says he is often asked to assess people that psychiatrists believe may have an ASD, but it turns out that in their past they have had brain surgery (which of course is a trauma to the brain) or a brain injury and that they had no ASD behaviours prior to this. Thus they are not diagnosed with an ASD (Asperger Syndrome or other). They may present similarly and require similar supports but they do not have an ASD.

So in your case there are two options:

1. You have an ASD. You were on the milder end of the spectrum and your behaviours did not present a problem so it wasn't identified. Then at an age when things start getting more challenging for many on the spectrum, your ASD behaviours became more evident. The fact that you had brain surgery at the same time was incidental and has no bearing on your ASD.

2. You do not have an ASD. Brain trauma from the surgery causes ASD-like behaviours & difficulties, and you may need similar supports, but these behaviours and difficulties are due to brain trauma not an ASD.

It is not possible to develop an ASD. It is possible to develop ASD-like behaviours.
In the end though, if you have what appears to be an ASD (even though it may not be), it would be easy to identify with ASD. And it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

But as for the original question: how many people do you think are born NT and develop into being on the autism spectrum? The answer is 0. It's not possible.

You say you had assessments for over a year - what for? There must have been concerns if you had this level of assessment, perhaps not for an ASC but maybe for something related - many children on the spectrum have diagnosis of things like dyspraxia before getting a full ASC diagnosis later. Also some people have to go through the diagnostic process more than once for the clinicians to be certain enough to give diagnosis so just because an earlier assessment gave no result doesn't always mean the condition wasn't there. Clinicians need to be certain before diagnosing. No child is put through assessment unless there are concerns about something, the very fact you went through it suggests you had some sort of problem your parents or doctors were concerned about.

I already said that some kids appear to be developing "normally" but as the social complexity changes as they grow they find it increasingly difficult to adapt and so often traits do not show up as problems till much later on, often not till late teens or even adulthood. Early traits are there but only recognised with hindsight which is one reason a history is taken

And, the diagnosis has only been in existence for 30 years, it was only really starting to be used in the late 80s/early 90s so lots of clinicians were inexperienced and didn't recognise the subtleties of AS as opposed to autism - depending on your age it may be that traits were simply missed because they weren't sure what they were looking for. This is part of the reason that adult diagnosis is still going on - many people were already adults before the diagnosis of AS even became available to be diagnosed with - as the time passes there will be fewer and fewer adults needing diagnosis because most should be recognised as children.

the diagnostic criteria state that for AS there is no language delay, this is the only diagnostic difference between AS and autism - To have autism you must have speech delay. However, the new criteria recognise that there are more subtle delays in language development in AS, usually in the pragmatic language area - responsible for the classic AS trait of not getting idiomatic references such as "pull your socks up". Current clinical texts do not talk about there being no speech delay at all but say that speech in AS children develops as "superficially perfect or even precocious" and instruct the clinician to look for the more subtle pragmatic idiosyncrasies as indicators of AS. Some ASC people are actually stunningly creative with language and are very good at coming up with new words and phrases, and even at creating their own languages - Daniel Tammet uses his synaesthesia to learn and create languages.

There is no physical motor delay in the criteria at all - you do not have to have delayed walking etc to have either AS or autism. However, developmental coordination disorder is a common comorbid with ASCs so many people on the spectrum do have motor control problems and some do have difficulty learning to walk but it isn't part and parcel of an ASC and is usually more common in the more severely affected autistic population. Even DCD children usually walk within the expected time scale.

Funnily enough going straight to walking without crawling is common in ASC children, even those with motor control problems, and parents tend to see this as advanced but actually missing out the crawling is a serious problem as it is a really important stage in learning about the world. Children who do this are seen as skipping a developmental stage and it is an indicator of developmental problems for a large proportion of them (though not all).
Of course, if you ask your parents if your walking was delayed you would get the answer "no" - try asking if you ever crawled and if you did, for how long - it should be at least 3-4 months for typically developing child. One of my children crawled for just a week before walking and one never crawled (actually he did crawl but only after his baby brother taught him and he was already 4) - both are on the spectrum. I was a precocious walker and extremely agile as a child - more agile than most children, though hopeless at sports. I spent my childhood in trees and my teens on asymmetric bars in the gym, even now I will perch on anything nearby and always walk the edge of the kerb. But I never crawled. My brother was quite clumsy physically although much more sporty but he spent far longer on the floor and walked late - over 18 months - and he's not on the spectrum.
Crawling or not doesn't give you a diagnosis of anything but it can indicate developmental conditions, not just ASCs


I have never heard of anyone acquiring an ASC through injury and although I am sure that injuries to specific areas would produce some ASC traits I think it would be extremely unlikely to be pervasive enough to give the full picture. With ADHD the brain may not be affected in such a pervasive way so it is more possible that an injury or surgery could produce enough traits to diagnose an acquired condition.

It is known, however, that environmental factors can produce traits in children that, if they had been born with those traits, would give them an ASC diagnosis. These children are usually subject to severe abuse or neglect or psychological trauma. They do not normally get an ASC diagnosis - sometimes, if a clinician feels there is a developmental problem beneath the traits caused by abuse or trauma they will give a PDD-NOS diagnosis. I know a young man with PDD-NOS who has had autistic traits from birth (I raised concerns about him at 6 month old) but because the consultant determined from tests that his problems were caused by medication his mother was prescribed before she knew she was pregnant he did not get the ASC diagnosis, even though his presentation and needs are clearly ASC.

So, as I said before someone may either look NT until later, or they may develop traits for some reason but not be genetically on the spectrum in which case an ASC diagnosis should not normally be given, a PDD-NOS diagnosis is most likely.

I just showed how your statement contradicted the criteria. If you have trouble finding the link, the word "link" and adjacent arrow might prove helpful. Still, I seem to lack the style and intellectual prowess to swear, call names, and bold the word "fact" as you have done. Clearly you win.

Edit: I see Mr. Xxx posted the same info, apparently in a format you were able to understand. I'm glad someone was able to get through to you.

Sometimes AS does not appear until the child is older and I think it would depend on how severe or mild it is. If it's mild, it can be very difficult to tell because the things they are doing may be normal that their age so the symptoms will be over looked. Some things they do may be seen as a quirk and just them being them. If their AS was noticed at two years old or at the age of four or five, then it must have been that severe for them to see it to know it's not just a quirk and it's an impairment. They must have also been that high up on the spectrum such as having autsim than AS.

I wonder how many aspies out there actually appeared NT because they did eye contact, showed interest in other people, threw fits and tried getting their way and did manipulation, opened presents and didn't play with the paper, pointed to things and handed things to people, played with older kids and adults, did parallel play, had stranger danger such as stranger anxiety, played with their toys the right way at their developmental level? Then at a certain age, the parents start to notice something different about their child and it's typical for the kid to be in elementary school before the parents find out something is wrong. Then they look back and may notice some quirks their child did and saw them as them being them and it's part of who they are, not due to a condition. Same as what their child did what they saw was normal at their age and it turns out it was autism and they just thought they would grow out of it. And some parents never notice at all. I have heard about it from some aspies about their own parents never noticing anything when they were growing up. It could be because they were so wrapped up in their own lives they didn't pay any attention to their children or they were so dysfunctional they didn't even notice and some are just in denial.

(Thread locked as OP deleted his opening post and started being offensive to those who disagreed with him.)