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Why do NTs reject normal friendliness?

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Sylvastor
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10 Jan 2013, 7:15 am

nessa238 wrote:
If it had happened to me I'd just put it down to her being an ignorant woman, not be surprised as it's a common way for people to act and never give her the opportunity to snub me like that again. Her card would be permanently marked as 'Waste of time - Avoid!'.

I'm not a mother though so I don't have any responsibility to socialise my child so it's not the same.

You can see why motherhood wouldn't have worked well for me and why I've always known I wasn't meant to have children.

I feel sorry for Aspies who have children as they are forced from necessity to socialise to ensure their child gets sufficient
social interaction.

Unless the child has an ASD as well of course and chances are bigger that it has one if a person with ASD is present in the (direct) family, e.g. one parent and/or grandparent.
If the child feels no need to socialise (outside of such institutions like kindergarten, school & co.), it shouldn't be forced to do so.
Also, this doesn't require the parent to socialise in any way.


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nessa238
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10 Jan 2013, 7:21 am

Sylvastor wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
If it had happened to me I'd just put it down to her being an ignorant woman, not be surprised as it's a common way for people to act and never give her the opportunity to snub me like that again. Her card would be permanently marked as 'Waste of time - Avoid!'.

I'm not a mother though so I don't have any responsibility to socialise my child so it's not the same.

You can see why motherhood wouldn't have worked well for me and why I've always known I wasn't meant to have children.

I feel sorry for Aspies who have children as they are forced from necessity to socialise to ensure their child gets sufficient
social interaction.

Unless the child has an ASD as well of course and chances are bigger that it has one if a person with ASD is present in the (direct) family, e.g. one parent and/or grandparent.
If the child feels no need to socialise (outside of such institutions like kindergarten, school & co.), it shouldn't be forced to do so.
Also, this doesn't require the parent to socialise in any way.


that's tricky because while I'd agree the child shouldn't be forced to socialise if it doesn't want to, this is not going to do the child any favours in terms of fitting in with society, getting work etc

It all depends on what kind of life the child eventually wants

It is generally a parent's role to socialise a child ie adapt them for society

This is one of the major reasons I knew I'd never be able to give a child what it needed to thrive in society



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10 Jan 2013, 1:01 pm

The NTs always get the upper hand, this is what annoys me. If the OP had a baby on her lap and an NT next to her said exactly the same things in the exactly the same way as how the OP described, and the OP ignored her (or whatever happened, I can't remember) then it would still somehow be the Aspie's fault.


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10 Jan 2013, 8:50 pm

nessa238 wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
Sometimes I think NTs are weirder than we are.


You're not wrong there!

They are far more dangerous than we'll ever be, due to their motivations and reactions to things being far more primitive.

Many are more akin to chimps than humans - this is why they're best avoided.
I don't 100% know if that true but I do know NTs are more likely to con people and run pyramid schemes.


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10 Jan 2013, 10:38 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
An example, is that in the past my youngest child was invited to the birthday party of someone in her class. She had no friends at school (being assessed for ASD) and I was aware that she was only being invited because at that age (five) they tend to invite the whole class.

On an everyday basis, I always kept myself to myself and never mixed with the other parents, I just stood on the periphery when I was collecting her from school, whilst the other parents would stand around gossiping etc. However, if a parent did approach me at any time I would try to make the small talk about our children etc.

At the party in question, I was sitting alone at the side of the hall, and another parent who had a baby with her as well as her son who was in my daughter's class sat next to me. I felt as if I was supposed to make conversation, or I worried that it would look rude if I didn't, because there was only her and me in the vicinity, other parents were elsewhere.

So I made a friendly comment about her baby, can't remember exactly what, but probably something about the baby looking like it was enjoying itself with the balloons or something. She really snubbed me. She replied very off-handly, without even looking at me, making it clear she didn't want to have a conversation with me. Perhaps there were no other free chairs elsewhere in the hall and she sat there reluctantly, I don't know, but why would she snub me like that? I definitely didn't say anything wrong, and she was as frosty as hell.

Things like this have happened to me before. I've tried to make conversation because I think I'm meant to, (I mean in situations not where you approach people because I've never done that, just if you end up very near to someone and everyone else is chatting so you feel like you are supposed to) but people have been very unreceptive and uninterested. (Conversely I've also had the problem where people approach you and start badgering you with questions and you feel like they are really in your personal space and wish they would leave you alone!)

Why do they do that?


The reason they do that is that there is an escalation process of socialization they have. You can't always just jump into conversation. They want the introduction, then some casual "smalltalk." Then, maybe next time you come across each other, you can have some more "smalltalk" and get into closer things. Then, maybe the next time, you can have even more smalltalk, going right into more personal things and even their child. To me, it's ridiculous. I really don't care about it, but it's how they work, and what we must do to interact with them.



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12 Jan 2013, 6:41 am

JRR wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
An example, is that in the past my youngest child was invited to the birthday party of someone in her class. She had no friends at school (being assessed for ASD) and I was aware that she was only being invited because at that age (five) they tend to invite the whole class.

On an everyday basis, I always kept myself to myself and never mixed with the other parents, I just stood on the periphery when I was collecting her from school, whilst the other parents would stand around gossiping etc. However, if a parent did approach me at any time I would try to make the small talk about our children etc.

At the party in question, I was sitting alone at the side of the hall, and another parent who had a baby with her as well as her son who was in my daughter's class sat next to me. I felt as if I was supposed to make conversation, or I worried that it would look rude if I didn't, because there was only her and me in the vicinity, other parents were elsewhere.

So I made a friendly comment about her baby, can't remember exactly what, but probably something about the baby looking like it was enjoying itself with the balloons or something. She really snubbed me. She replied very off-handly, without even looking at me, making it clear she didn't want to have a conversation with me. Perhaps there were no other free chairs elsewhere in the hall and she sat there reluctantly, I don't know, but why would she snub me like that? I definitely didn't say anything wrong, and she was as frosty as hell.

Things like this have happened to me before. I've tried to make conversation because I think I'm meant to, (I mean in situations not where you approach people because I've never done that, just if you end up very near to someone and everyone else is chatting so you feel like you are supposed to) but people have been very unreceptive and uninterested. (Conversely I've also had the problem where people approach you and start badgering you with questions and you feel like they are really in your personal space and wish they would leave you alone!)

Why do they do that?


The reason they do that is that there is an escalation process of socialization they have. You can't always just jump into conversation. They want the introduction, then some casual "smalltalk." Then, maybe next time you come across each other, you can have some more "smalltalk" and get into closer things. Then, maybe the next time, you can have even more smalltalk, going right into more personal things and even their child. To me, it's ridiculous. I really don't care about it, but it's how they work, and what we must do to interact with them.


You are on the right track. The small talk is a kind of proxy social ritual that smoothens the social bonding process.



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12 Jan 2013, 6:46 am

And I don't think I will ever be able to learn that type of stuff, which means being separate from the crowd is something I will have to continue to do, (and am content to do).


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12 Jan 2013, 6:50 am

whirlingmind wrote:
And I don't think I will ever be able to learn that type of stuff, which means being separate from the crowd is something I will have to continue to do, (and am content to do).

When you learn it you'll find it's not unlike learning another language. Just study the cues.



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12 Jan 2013, 9:48 am

Chloe33 wrote:
When i was in Elementary school in the 1980s, a lot of the SAQ younger mothers seemed to hang out in their own cliques. They smoked and talked loudly in front of the school, they were white and wore clothes that looked like they had in High School.

My mother was friends with the older mothers, the non-white mothers, the non-judgemental mothers.

The children knew i was "different", "odd" at a very early age. Its like they smell it out like sharks.

Who brought up the SAQ is right on, it transfers from parents to their children i believe. I wasn't invited to certain parties as the mother thought i was weird, yet the child was always nice to me. "I'm sorry i can't invite you, my mother won't let me, she thinks your weird"


That mother would have been from my generation, in elementary school at the same time as I was, mistreating people like me.

In the 1960s and 1970s someone like me was a punching bag, period.



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13 Jan 2013, 1:20 am

They have no souls and like to prey on weakness and eat you alive whenever they get the chance for when they see you as kind they see you as weak!


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13 Jan 2013, 1:37 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
They have no souls and like to prey on weakness and eat you alive whenever they get the chance for when they see you as kind they see you as weak!

Not all NTs are like this. There are some very good hearted people out there (and no they aren't the pat your head patronising types). But I do acknowledge there are some real classic NT bastards out there (as you described).

Part of the problem is NT society promotes competition. Competition is supposed to (in theory) promote performance and lead to excellence and quality. In practice it also promotes bullying and Darwinian survival of the fittest mentality. Thus from kindergardten little kids learn to discriminate against those who are different and those who can't "keep up". You will see this philosophy in elite schools and ivy league universities where poor performance is punished and those who lag behind are encouraged to leave. Invariably the job market exists based on capitalism where demand for jobs means there is no room for those who can't "cut the mustard" (make the cut).

Such a society patronises those who are developmentally challenged and helping us is a "charitable act". Invariably NTs who seek to network and climb social ladders will learn to avoid people who are autistic. For no other reason other than we will "hold them back". I do stress, however, that there is a proportion of NTs who will take you for who you are. But...they are in the minority :cry:



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13 Jan 2013, 2:41 am

cyberdad wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
They have no souls and like to prey on weakness and eat you alive whenever they get the chance for when they see you as kind they see you as weak!

Not all NTs are like this. There are some very good hearted people out there (and no they aren't the pat your head patronising types). But I do acknowledge there are some real classic NT bastards out there (as you described).

Part of the problem is NT society promotes competition. Competition is supposed to (in theory) promote performance and lead to excellence and quality. In practice it also promotes bullying and Darwinian survival of the fittest mentality. Thus from kindergardten little kids learn to discriminate against those who are different and those who can't "keep up". You will see this philosophy in elite schools and ivy league universities where poor performance is punished and those who lag behind are encouraged to leave. Invariably the job market exists based on capitalism where demand for jobs means there is no room for those who can't "cut the mustard" (make the cut).

Such a society patronises those who are developmentally challenged and helping us is a "charitable act". Invariably NTs who seek to network and climb social ladders will learn to avoid people who are autistic. For no other reason other than we will "hold them back". I do stress, however, that there is a proportion of NTs who will take you for who you are. But...they are in the minority :cry:
Thats because some autistics are by far more skilled and talented than average NTs and those NTs dont want to accept the fact that the person they view as a freak will replace them or outperform them so in response they treat that person with total prejudice to keep their position via underground prejudice and bullying its how they work.


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13 Jan 2013, 1:29 pm

Very intelligent thread.

I think that in order to have a better understanding of the woman's reaction, you would've needed to grasp a lot of tiny, subtle elements before, even months before. So tiny and subtle that we aspies can't even fathom, that's why for us, the reaction comes totally unexpected. I say this from my own experience. Whenever I'm taken aback at someone's reaction, I've learned that I've already interacted with that person a lot without words, only I didn't notice any interaction at all. Clothes talk, body language talks, many things are conversations you two have had without words prior to that verbal interaction.

This is very well exemplified by NLD professionals: a boy coming up to another boy and wanting to play together, only to be punched in the nose by the other boy, and being totally shocked and hurt because he didn't do anything to deserve it, then when it happens several times, concluding that other kids are just nasty. As these professionals explain: the NLD boy has missed a whole lot of the interaction, because it was non-verbal. He looked at boy B. Boy B was playing with his new ball. Boy A wanted to play too, so he started approaching boy B enthusiastically. Boy B explained, without words, that he preferred to continue playing alone (very subtly turning his torso away from boy A as boy A approached). Boy A, blind to the body language of boy B, continued approaching. This caused boy B to conclude that boy A was purposefully ignoring his request to be left alone. He got angry. When boy A finally reached him, he punched him.


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14 Jan 2013, 12:11 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
They have no souls and like to prey on weakness and eat you alive whenever they get the chance for when they see you as kind they see you as weak!

Not all NTs are like this. There are some very good hearted people out there (and no they aren't the pat your head patronising types). But I do acknowledge there are some real classic NT bastards out there (as you described).

Part of the problem is NT society promotes competition. Competition is supposed to (in theory) promote performance and lead to excellence and quality. In practice it also promotes bullying and Darwinian survival of the fittest mentality. Thus from kindergardten little kids learn to discriminate against those who are different and those who can't "keep up". You will see this philosophy in elite schools and ivy league universities where poor performance is punished and those who lag behind are encouraged to leave. Invariably the job market exists based on capitalism where demand for jobs means there is no room for those who can't "cut the mustard" (make the cut).

Such a society patronises those who are developmentally challenged and helping us is a "charitable act". Invariably NTs who seek to network and climb social ladders will learn to avoid people who are autistic. For no other reason other than we will "hold them back". I do stress, however, that there is a proportion of NTs who will take you for who you are. But...they are in the minority :cry:
Thats because some autistics are by far more skilled and talented than average NTs and those NTs dont want to accept the fact that the person they view as a freak will replace them or outperform them so in response they treat that person with total prejudice to keep their position via underground prejudice and bullying its how they work.

Yes I suppose NTs tend to judge us on basic superficial characteristics (looks, appearance and behavior) before they judge us our skills. It's why job interviews provide an opportunity to screen out applicants on the basis of appearance or how they dress or sound. It's up to us to learn to survive in this world. We have no other choice.