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Have You Always Been All Alone?

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shubunkin
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01 Apr 2013, 9:25 am

nessa238 wrote:
shubunkin wrote:
I think the point that both you and nessa are missing is that these people are struggling to maintain relationships, jobs, friends ... even though these things may be beyond some people on the spectrum, for those who do attempt or try to manage relationships or who have no other option or means of managing in life without engaging with others (often survival comes into it !) end up experiencing stress etc...

maybe I'm missing the point, maybe I'm taking things too literally but there are shades of colours inbetween having successful relationships and having no relationships --- !
and being on the spectrum means that - so some of us will have partners and jobs and family and friends that we struggle to deal with .. . . . .

I feel that there is an insinuation and equation that because people socialise - therefore they are not on the spectrum that is being made.

Yesterday the inference was - if you are aspie therapist its "the blind leading the blind" this is what I read yesterday - and when AS therapists wrote in to say - yes they are therapists and yes they are aspie - funny how noone challenged them as delusional or wasting their time or have they really got AS ...! !

- today its the inference that if you have friends, its unlikely that you are AS...
which is weird, because of all the empowering videos that Alex puts up about how to make friends, and have relationships, deal with work and study etc...and generally challenge the status quo about AS

just saying . rant over.


If a person is leading a functional life with a job and friends and partner though, to what extent are they actually disabled?

Also one person said they were a therapist, only one. Plus she said she didn't disclose her Aspergers.

I just feel the focus is often too much on the people with the family/partner/job/collection of friends/extensive community links, as if these people are the norm of Asperger's Syndrome when I don't think they are. They are extremely high functioning Aspergers shading into NT basically and when they talk of all their achievements it puts a lot of pressure on those who have no hope of emulating them as they do not have the same neurology. We aren't playing on an even playing field in other words.


Aspergers includes people that are high functionning - they still struggle with the disorder and related symptoms and behaviour, but this does not mean that they should be discriminated on WP.

Including myself there were 3 people that said they were involved in either training to provide therapeutic interventions or have done this already. As far as I'm concerned, WP provides a message board for everyone NT or not, high functionning or not.



cybermaven
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01 Apr 2013, 9:26 am

I observe. I am outside of all interactions, even when I am participating! When people describe out of body or 'near death' experiences - that is the closest description that matches what I intellectualize as my 'feeling'. At my age (50) I have just adapted to it & have pretty much become comfortable with the idea of being alone.


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MannyBoo
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01 Apr 2013, 9:28 am

nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
Even if I am with a lot of friends in a noisy room, I am alone.


Yes, but you've got a lot of friends to be alone in a room with

that's not the experience of a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome

I just wonder how the Asperger's Syndrome is manifesting itself in a person with loads of friends seeing as it's a social disability

And now I no longer have any of those friends, period :roll:


So you spoke about something as if it was your current experience but now you're saying it was a past experience?

I guess some people just have difficulty comprehending simple accounts. :roll:


No, I'd say you changed the story because I challenged it


No, you are just presumptuous and do not know what you are talking about.


I'm happy for you to explain it then

You were initially happy to give people the impression you feel alone when in a room full of friends, implying you have loads
of friends

now you say you don't have those friends any more

why say it in the first place then?

This is not something I would ever do ie imply I had a lot of friends when I didn't

How many friends do you have, honestly

I get very confused by this type of behaviour and just want to find out the facts

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just trying to pin down the truth of the matter


If you can't pin it down the first time, that's your problem. You don't know me and can not comment about my life in any legitimate way. I don't owe you anything, period.


You are the one contradicting yourself - one minute you're alone on a room full of friends, the next you aren't friends with them any more

You are now being very defensive - I will draw my own conclusions from this

No, you are simply annoying, like a buzzing mosquito.

But your sudden obsession with me is creepy. I will draw my own conclusions about you from that.


You got found out, I can accept that would make you annoyed

I have no obsession with you at all, I just like consistency of story


You found out what? You are simply a presumptuous moron, imagining whatever you want to imagine, based on nothing.

No obsessions? You are obviously lost.



nessa238
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01 Apr 2013, 9:29 am

shubunkin wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
shubunkin wrote:
I think the point that both you and nessa are missing is that these people are struggling to maintain relationships, jobs, friends ... even though these things may be beyond some people on the spectrum, for those who do attempt or try to manage relationships or who have no other option or means of managing in life without engaging with others (often survival comes into it !) end up experiencing stress etc...

maybe I'm missing the point, maybe I'm taking things too literally but there are shades of colours inbetween having successful relationships and having no relationships --- !
and being on the spectrum means that - so some of us will have partners and jobs and family and friends that we struggle to deal with .. . . . .

I feel that there is an insinuation and equation that because people socialise - therefore they are not on the spectrum that is being made.

Yesterday the inference was - if you are aspie therapist its "the blind leading the blind" this is what I read yesterday - and when AS therapists wrote in to say - yes they are therapists and yes they are aspie - funny how noone challenged them as delusional or wasting their time or have they really got AS ...! !

- today its the inference that if you have friends, its unlikely that you are AS...
which is weird, because of all the empowering videos that Alex puts up about how to make friends, and have relationships, deal with work and study etc...and generally challenge the status quo about AS

just saying . rant over.


If a person is leading a functional life with a job and friends and partner though, to what extent are they actually disabled?

Also one person said they were a therapist, only one. Plus she said she didn't disclose her Aspergers.

I just feel the focus is often too much on the people with the family/partner/job/collection of friends/extensive community links, as if these people are the norm of Asperger's Syndrome when I don't think they are. They are extremely high functioning Aspergers shading into NT basically and when they talk of all their achievements it puts a lot of pressure on those who have no hope of emulating them as they do not have the same neurology. We aren't playing on an even playing field in other words.


Aspergers includes people that are high functioning - they still struggle with the disorder and related symptoms and behaviour, but this does not mean that they should be discriminated on WP.

Including myself there were 3 people that said they were involved in either training to provide therapeutic interventions or have done this already. As far as I'm concerned, WP provides a message board for everyone NT or not, high functioning or not.


I wanted to hear the details of the struggle to be able to compare it to my own and that of others. That's not discrimination; that's curiosity. What's wrong with answering a few questions? The fact these people often don't want to answer questions about the nature of their AS leads me to believe they have something to hide.

I'm interested in the point at which exceedingly high functioning Aspergers becomes effectively neuro-typicality



nessa238
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01 Apr 2013, 9:30 am

MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
Even if I am with a lot of friends in a noisy room, I am alone.


Yes, but you've got a lot of friends to be alone in a room with

that's not the experience of a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome

I just wonder how the Asperger's Syndrome is manifesting itself in a person with loads of friends seeing as it's a social disability

And now I no longer have any of those friends, period :roll:


So you spoke about something as if it was your current experience but now you're saying it was a past experience?

I guess some people just have difficulty comprehending simple accounts. :roll:


No, I'd say you changed the story because I challenged it


No, you are just presumptuous and do not know what you are talking about.


I'm happy for you to explain it then

You were initially happy to give people the impression you feel alone when in a room full of friends, implying you have loads
of friends

now you say you don't have those friends any more

why say it in the first place then?

This is not something I would ever do ie imply I had a lot of friends when I didn't

How many friends do you have, honestly

I get very confused by this type of behaviour and just want to find out the facts

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just trying to pin down the truth of the matter


If you can't pin it down the first time, that's your problem. You don't know me and can not comment about my life in any legitimate way. I don't owe you anything, period.


You are the one contradicting yourself - one minute you're alone on a room full of friends, the next you aren't friends with them any more

You are now being very defensive - I will draw my own conclusions from this

No, you are simply annoying, like a buzzing mosquito.

But your sudden obsession with me is creepy. I will draw my own conclusions about you from that.


You got found out, I can accept that would make you annoyed

I have no obsession with you at all, I just like consistency of story


You found out what? You are simply a presumptuous moron, imagining whatever you want to imagine, based on nothing.

No obsessions? You are obviously lost.


So tell me what the facts are then and stop being so insulting



shubunkin
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01 Apr 2013, 9:31 am

nessa238 wrote:
shubunkin wrote:
briankelley wrote:
shubunkin wrote:

That's interesting - I haven't noticed anyone on any of the WP threads expressing how great their social life was . . .! !! !

I would have thought anyone regularly posting on this site has an unusual social life compared to the norm...

this isn't a bit of snark I'm detecting is it ?

:roll:


Well here's an interesting thing in my case. After about 15 years of being a hermit, I started going back to church. Now I was brought up in a church environment and I'm a believer, so that helps a lot. And it's a very small down home kind of fellowship. Everyone there is very genuinely nice and down to earth. So, for the last four years I have been in roomfuls of people I like and who like me (or at least pretend to. We have get togethers at peoples houses and stuff like that. They all know I'm different. Some know I'm autistic. But they're an accepting bunch.

I can't say I've actually become friends with any of them though because none of them has ever given me a phone call or asked me hang out with them outside of scheduled church functions. So basically just a place where nice people are nice to me, but nothing beyond that. No one would go will go looking for me if I stop showing up.

But that at least gives me the illusion of having friends and a social life.


that sounds good to me - I've started socialising around my special interests and find it easier to have contact with people that way....the fact that you share your faith with others makes a bond with them..

I wrote the above words in answer to a post that seemed to be promoting a really narrow view of isolation and aspergers - namely that if we were ever in a room with friends this disproved our diagnosis. Which I think is BS and a very old fashioned idea about aspergers.

There are plenty of aspies that attend conferences, conventions and belong to special interest groups or hobbyists ... they may build up a network of acquaintances and friends, but still feel alone - and struggle regularly in groups.

I avoid groups as much as possible, and prefer to be with people one or two at a time, due in part to auditory processing problems - I find it tiring to follow conversation and struggle to stay focused. I want to wander off, I want to talk about my special interests and I get bored...


I never said being in a room full of friends disproved an Asperger's diagnosis, I was just curious as to the extent to which the person who said it was affected by their Aspergers as there's the complete contrast of 'room full of friends' with 'no friends at all' that others with Aspergers experience ie two very different presentations of Aspergers and I wanted to find out more. The person didn't want to talk about it though, which I found strange.



"I just wonder how the Asperger's Syndrome is manifesting itself in a person with loads of friends seeing as it's a social disability"
"just curious"

maybe you are not aware, but inference and insinuation that you have written on this thread could be read as snark and doubt.

I don't want to discuss this further, as I am aware that this can ramble on and it is not what this thread is about, or what people are interested in reading about.



MannyBoo
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01 Apr 2013, 9:36 am

nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
MannyBoo wrote:
Even if I am with a lot of friends in a noisy room, I am alone.


Yes, but you've got a lot of friends to be alone in a room with

that's not the experience of a lot of people with Asperger's Syndrome

I just wonder how the Asperger's Syndrome is manifesting itself in a person with loads of friends seeing as it's a social disability

And now I no longer have any of those friends, period :roll:


So you spoke about something as if it was your current experience but now you're saying it was a past experience?

I guess some people just have difficulty comprehending simple accounts. :roll:


No, I'd say you changed the story because I challenged it


No, you are just presumptuous and do not know what you are talking about.


I'm happy for you to explain it then

You were initially happy to give people the impression you feel alone when in a room full of friends, implying you have loads
of friends

now you say you don't have those friends any more

why say it in the first place then?

This is not something I would ever do ie imply I had a lot of friends when I didn't

How many friends do you have, honestly

I get very confused by this type of behaviour and just want to find out the facts

I'm not having a go at you, I'm just trying to pin down the truth of the matter


If you can't pin it down the first time, that's your problem. You don't know me and can not comment about my life in any legitimate way. I don't owe you anything, period.


You are the one contradicting yourself - one minute you're alone on a room full of friends, the next you aren't friends with them any more

You are now being very defensive - I will draw my own conclusions from this

No, you are simply annoying, like a buzzing mosquito.

But your sudden obsession with me is creepy. I will draw my own conclusions about you from that.


You got found out, I can accept that would make you annoyed

I have no obsession with you at all, I just like consistency of story


You found out what? You are simply a presumptuous moron, imagining whatever you want to imagine, based on nothing.

No obsessions? You are obviously lost.


So tell me what the facts are then and stop being so insulting

You were the instigator of this annoying exchange. Not I.

I am not interested in satisfying your demands, because I do not care about you.



shubunkin
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01 Apr 2013, 9:39 am

I think a moderator should look at this thread and get involved.



nessa238
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01 Apr 2013, 9:40 am

That's strange, you wanted the thread to move on a minute ago



shubunkin
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01 Apr 2013, 9:43 am

I think there is an attempt at bullying going on in this thread - this is why I think a moderator should get involved.



nessa238
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01 Apr 2013, 9:44 am

shubunkin wrote:
I think there is an attempt at bullying going on in this thread - this is why I think a moderator should get involved.


So asking questions is bullying now?

I was called a 'moron' by the other person - I suppose that's fine?

:roll:



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01 Apr 2013, 10:59 am

nessa238 wrote:
shubunkin wrote:
I think the point that both you and nessa are missing is that these people are struggling to maintain relationships, jobs, friends ... even though these things may be beyond some people on the spectrum, for those who do attempt or try to manage relationships or who have no other option or means of managing in life without engaging with others (often survival comes into it !) end up experiencing stress etc...

maybe I'm missing the point, maybe I'm taking things too literally but there are shades of colours inbetween having successful relationships and having no relationships --- !
and being on the spectrum means that - so some of us will have partners and jobs and family and friends that we struggle to deal with .. . . . .

I feel that there is an insinuation and equation that because people socialise - therefore they are not on the spectrum that is being made.

Yesterday the inference was - if you are aspie therapist its "the blind leading the blind" this is what I read yesterday - and when AS therapists wrote in to say - yes they are therapists and yes they are aspie - funny how noone challenged them as delusional or wasting their time or have they really got AS ...! !

- today its the inference that if you have friends, its unlikely that you are AS...
which is weird, because of all the empowering videos that Alex puts up about how to make friends, and have relationships, deal with work and study etc...and generally challenge the status quo about AS

just saying . rant over.


If a person is leading a functional life with a job and friends and partner though, to what extent are they actually disabled?

Also one person said they were a therapist, only one. Plus she said she didn't disclose her Aspergers.

I just feel the focus is often too much on the people with the family/partner/job/collection of friends/extensive community links, as if these people are the norm of Asperger's Syndrome when I don't think they are. They are extremely high functioning Aspergers shading into NT basically and when they talk of all their achievements it puts a lot of pressure on those who have no hope of emulating them as they do not have the same neurology. We aren't playing on an even playing field in other words.


Yes, I am, at this point, a high functioning autistic, age 70. who has gone through a life of all kinds of hell and trouble and trauma, horrible indescribable suffering at times, though I am sure there are others here who are suffering worse, and I am grateful for the opportunities I have had. However to get to the point I am at now was extremely difficult and required much intensive work. I think one of the reasons I prevailed is because I am autistic and somehow got very focused on understanding my own brain functioning and also was lucky to get help and very good at sleuthing and finding what I needed to help myself.

By the way I am still daily going through all kinds of stress and struggle, but it all has been and is still worth it, though sometimes just barely. I am not discounting another peron's unique experience, perceptions and struggle..

Am editing this to make one further comment: You do not know what my neurology is.



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01 Apr 2013, 11:07 am

shubunkin wrote:
I think there is an attempt at bullying going on in this thread - this is why I think a moderator should get involved.


Though I am very much in agreement with the points you were making about high functioning aspies, in my opinion moderation in this instance would be a form of enabling. People build up skills by participating---or choosing not to--in this kind of situation.

A super-conductor works better when its (a little:-) dirty. Read this in Scientific American.



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13 May 2013, 10:55 am

briankelley wrote:
...But I digress. Have you to experienced being completely totally alone, your entire life, outside of family, co-workers and acquaintances (if any)?


Yes, though I was oblivious to it until I was about 12 and realized the other kids saw each other outside of school, and events like their birthdays were not family-only events. I had one friend growing up, and he was the son of my mother's best friend. Not someone I had to seek out and befriend on my own, which in the years since has been an nsuccessful endeavor. Have had very few friends through my life, usually one at a time, and almost all have drifted away.

For as long as I can remember I've identified with the lonely, isolated, and frustrated in love. Favorite TV shows and movies have often had characters/plots featuring these types of people and/or have some kind of reality vs unreality theme. Someone else might feel sorry for, pity, or perhaps laugh at their plight. I feel right along with the character b/c I know the terrible, unremitting angst that is a part of those experiences. At wanting to fit in but never being able to. At not being understood. At waiting too long, or being too hasty. At watching the world go by like its a carnival ride that I'm not permitted to board but can only wave to the people riding it. And once in a while someone will jump off for a bit, spend some time with me, then reboard the ride and be whisked away.



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13 May 2013, 1:29 pm

I've had brief periods in my lifetime where I've thought I was no longer alone, only for things to happen that made me realize I was always completely alone :(



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13 May 2013, 2:17 pm

nessa238 wrote:
-

If a person is leading a functional life with a job and friends and partner though, to what extent are they actually disabled?

Also one person said they were a therapist, only one. Plus she said she didn't disclose her Aspergers.

I just feel the focus is often too much on the people with the family/partner/job/collection of friends/extensive community links, as if these people are the norm of Asperger's Syndrome when I don't think they are. They are extremely high functioning Aspergers shading into NT basically and when they talk of all their achievements it puts a lot of pressure on those who have no hope of emulating them as they do not have the same neurology. We aren't playing on an even playing field in other words.


I don't consider myself extremely high functioning at all, and yet I have a partner/family/job/acquaintances. I can live independently, but I kept everything to the bare boned basics when I did. I resent the implication there that to acquire any relationship whatsoever you must not be truely "disabled" as if the above solves all problems. Case dismissed.
I push myself, I play to my strengths, and I can be extremely dogged about reaching a goal. I've also seen people who have posted on WP who have significantly more difficulties than myself, and have achieved a great amount in some areas. Why not applaud them vs throwing our hands up because we haven't done the same?
And yes, I feel alone.