What do NTs hate so much about us?

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Shikari, you sound like a really nice person and I was glad to read your post. I don't understand though why people who are old enough to be in medical school feel like it is necessary to be mean and talk about AspieMD behind her back. I can understand that in elementary school or even middle school and high school where we are all pretty much young, ignorant and stupid in many ways but this is med school. Shouldn't these people be less mean? And what better place to understand and feel for an Aspie than in Med school? It is a neurological condition after all and I am sure they all study it these days.

Well, thank you!
The truth is is that people will always talk bad about other people behind their backs. That will never change...as sad as that is! NT's talk bad about each other all time for some fairly stupid reasons sometimes. At the same time there are just as many NT's who hate it when people talk bad about others. No one is innocent in this matter...we've all made fun of others at times...me included. But for me, I end up hating myself later for doing it...I feel guilty. I suppose people do it because it is easy to do, and they make mistakes and get caught up in the moment. And then there are people who are just mean....and no one needs to surround themselves with that kind of negativity. It's important to remember that the bad things people say you is not a reflection of who you are, but a reflection of who they are!

This is what I get too at my university. I have been there for a while now and no one has ever taken a liking in me. Really I do try to act right and look nice and don't show anything obviously aspie or inappropriate. And the reactions I get from people is the same you and Joe90 get. I'm OK to work with on projects but I'm not someone to be friends with. No idea what is wrong but there must be something wrong with me, like being a little too slow to react to anything spontaneous which give NT the impression that we need to think about our answer and therefore lie, or just something that creeps folks out... Or something that makes me sound fake. I just don't know. It could not be anything major, it must be in the details.

I am a bit passive and was from the start because I did want to pass and all that, so I may have made some mistakes then. My therapist said that explains all, and people would like me. But they won't. It's like there is some kind of signal saying to NT to stay away. Perhaps it is this Uncanny valley, that we almost look like real humans... I haven't thought about it until now. There is a lot more to this than me not throwing myself in from the start and being overly active and chatty. I almost did believe her. This thread really is very interesting.

I'm a quirky NT, possibly BAP (I relate to the TV show character Bones and several people I'm close to agree with the assessment) who dated an Aspie for a while, and I felt kind of caught in the middle in the conflicts between my ex-boyfriend and my family. My ex apparently came across as self-centered and insecure to them, by trying to drive conversation topics and activities toward things that interested him or things he was good at that he thought might impress people (but just made him come off as arrogant and boastful). He also became a jerk in their eyes by not spontaneously offering to do things for me like drive me home at night if he was tired or busy. That kind of stuff only started to bother me, however, when it was combined with his outwardly expressing his dislike of every city I was applying to jobs for because he didn't want to leave the region we grew up in...and it was ultimately this incompatibility in terms of where to live that split us up. I think in some cases he didn't realize what was expected of him, and in other cases he just didn't feel he had the energy to handle it at the moment. Beyond that, he was also rather anxious and insecure and expressed it outwardly, which I also know from my personal experience with not having fit in during my youth tends to turn people off.

And perhaps an Aspie who is not even anxious and insecure might just not seem comfortable in their own skin because of their body language and tone of voice, which may be the result of actual physical discomfort in their own skin due to sensory issues. And if you dare say that you're autistic, they will more likely say "but that's no excuse for being a jerk" than "that explains it."

In fact, when it was brought up that I myself wasn't a fast learner in the area of emotional intelligence, that I used to make all kinds of social faux pas myself and would monologue and was outwardly insecure, my classically NT family just used that as more fuel against my ex. Basically, paraphrasing, "You used to be kind of like that too, but you outgrew most of it. So he was probably just spoiled by his parents and sheltered too much, and if he'd been raised in a slightly tougher environment like you, he might have just been a more friendly, happy nerd." But I really think, especially still being in touch with my ex and reading about Asperger's on here and elsewhere in-depth (just to be sure I don't have it for those who wonder!), it's probably not that simple. He may still have sensory issues that drain him, and he was probably born significantly more quirky than myself and ends up drained by all the extra effort he has to put in to be able to manage a routine 9-5 and preferably not piss off his parents whom he still relies on. And though he can be lazy about cleaning and fixing things, he also does have a little genuine trouble with motor skills sometimes.

So, in short, I think that when NTs dislike Aspies, it's because they interpret the Aspie's behavior under the assumption that they are NT, if a quirky/nerdy/BAP-ish variety, and so cannot imagine the extent of the sensory issues, cognitive processing differences, trouble with subtler levels of NT communication, and the many years of just not getting certain things and how that could all just add up. Most of the Aspies, NLDers, and other neurologically quirky people I've met, I've known about their quirks right off the bat or soon after meeting them, and so I've been generally curious aobut their experience, and I've also been able to let my guard down with them because I grew up a bit of a weirdo myself and so I figure they're more likely to accept that side of me. I'm not sure how I'd be just meeting someone and not knowing, but there was one Aspie I didn't know about immediately and I didn't find him odd at all. Then again, I'd only interacted with him fairly casually.

I think they dont hate all of the Aspies. It is the major stereotypes they have that people hate. I have been a liar so I dont use the stereo types but I know a lot of them do. These some of the ones and how many people associate them with their minds. I have noticed that people who act all proud and think highly of themselves and act like they are special like some aspies do (self centered to society). I personally do not think that There were many times when people mention facts and ASpies want to give them the "correct" information (geeks). Many of them don't have the same normal interests as everyone else this has also evolved into the doing bad things or in their words "grow a pair". (uninterested, weird, sissy) If they dont know certain things or struggle to do things that come natraully to the NT people it is considered bad. (weirdo)

I haven't told anyone other than my small group (we have small group teams that work together on every assignment and dissection and histo lab and stuff so I figured I'd tell then). When I told them they were professional about it. About half sensed something was off and the other half was totally genuinely surprised. However my group cliqued up, and outside of class they just hang with their groups as if I told them nothing. I told them to keep it a secret (I did not want any backlash from people with negative stereotypes of autism to argue that I shouldn't be a doctor.... After all, they do screen for people like us, so I'm sure if they found out about my autism they would react unfavourably). Knowing NTs, I don't think they did keep it a secret, but there 's a smaller chance the authorities would find out.

I did include my AS on my health form, which is apparently only looked at by the secretary and referred to if an illness comes up.

It's kind of a shame but medical school, as confirmed by blogs everywhere, is like high school all over again. Small group of people who have every single class together. You'd think people who want to be a doctor do it out of compassion for the infirm and those who are weaker and more vulnerable but I'm starting to feel that might not actually be the case. Or maybe it is but I am so much like them that I don't strike them as someone who has a disability, perhaps maybe someone careless or aloof. So close yet so far. These people are still hypocrites - if I had Down's Syndrome, they'd probably be nicer to me and forgive me for certain behaviours, but they wouldn't include me in their mainstream friends, maybe because they know I wouldn't. "Get" certain things and therefore maybe make un-lighten the mood? Maybe I'd make it awkward, as NTs want to be around loose and easy people whereas socializing doesn't come naturally to me? Maybe I'd stiffen the air a bit? Maybe that's why I decrease the comfort level of the room and therefore create an unsaid rule about not having me there because it is obvious how I dampen the atmosphere? I really don't know. I try to act lighter and more at ease, but maybe it doesn't work? Regardless, I hate being the outcast all the time. I hate being abnormal in a socially unacceptable way. I hate having AS and would live to feel a real sense of belonging to a group, without people giving each other those knowing looks: "it's her." I long for genuinely nice people who fully appreciate me for who I am. I don't think I've actually found that. It's always been "we'll she's a nice person so I guess we'll allow her around" at best and walking away or bullying me every time they see me at worst.

Ghostsinthewallpaper: interesting! It's funny because my parents say the exact same thing about my fiancé, whose parents are way more accepting of his differences. We're both aspie but have different sets of quirks. And I agree that the problem is that they think we're NT but weird which makes it seem to them like a choice.... Problem is that I just want to be treated like everyone else, but when I disclose AS they act almost scared around me, which causes them to be nice but not genuine and therefore their effort to be on my level to include me is exhausting to them and therefore they relish their "easier" outings without me. I wish it didn't have to come to that!! ! Why can't I just be normal so that this wouldn't be an issue in the first place? Why can't I just belong??? I hate this being different nonsense! To compound the problem, many people don't know about autism or have misconceptions about it, which makes them even more confused and uncomfortable around me, unsure how to accommodate me and making false assumptions on how I see the world or that I'm always being literal (I've developed that into a very dry, sarcastic humor).

So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Disclose and people act differently around me, treat me differently and not the same as each other so that I feel alien and not one of them (kinda like how a group of camp counselors treat a camper-as much as they like that camper there is always a wall between them and the camper will never be one of the counselors.) If I don't disclose people will measure me by their standards and not understand how much effort I put in seeming normal and overcoming my sensory issues.

anotherswede: oh wow! You've described my situation exactly. I wish we all knew each other IRL so that we could be friends. Maybe we'd understand each other better? I know I feel like I'm missing out on all the fun people have whilst being spontaneous and I can't help but feel lousy about it.

Shikari: I wish more people were like you, but you're posting under the premise that they know I'm aspie. They don't. Being on the aspie/NT fence (BAP? What does that even mean?) I can explain to an NT how aspies see things. But it seems like nobody really cares because its too factual. I learned NT behaviour and rules intellectually, which might seem it less natural.

Last edited by aspieMD on 09 Aug 2013, 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

I just read "aspie/NT" as "NasTie", I think I need to go to sleep soon.

Mostly its the wierdness, eccentricity, being "boring", and in employment situations, the incompetence.

Oddly enough I don't see myself as particularly weird. I don't have different interests and am definitely not incompetent at what I do (I'm one of the more skilled medical students). I don't even think I'm that eccentric.

You seem to have chucked up the standard negative stereotypes of Aspies.

I can only speak for myself and the small part of the spectrum that I occupy.

Weird - You can describe me as that if you meet me and feel that way, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally I reject concepts of normality and a standard way to live my life.

Eccentric - Yes, no problem for me there, as above. But hopefully that works against the next issue of being boring.

Boring- Depends what you want to talk about, if someone wants to talk to me about standard pop culture I will not be staying in the conversation for very long.

Incompetence at work - No, definitely not. Issues with making decisions when people can not accurately describe what they want and being able to effectively limit my desire to achieve perfection, especially in regard to budget constraints, yes.

AspieMD,
I know for me I can tell if there is something off about someone even if I don't know exactly what it is. When people are nervous or tense around me it makes me feel uncomfortable. I guess that's empathy for you, and empathy is really easy for me. I suppose if you come off as scripted than it indeed does feel unnatural. It's definitely a NT tendency to be around people who are comfortable with them, and it makes life much easier. I have come across plenty of weird people in my day, and try to make them feel as comfortable as possible around me, but sometimes when things just don't click...it's easy to just give up. It shouldn't be that way, but it just is and it's not okay. It's not that NT's hate aspies...it's just we don't know what to do. I'm the kind of person that cares about everyone... Even the people I don't necessarily like. I still want the best for them, and would stand up for them if they were treated poorly. Hatred really isn't the problem...it's indifference I think. I generalizing NT's here, but it's true. My advice to you is to seek out introverts... They are some of the most caring individuals there is, and will have more things in common with aspies than extroverts when it comes to social things. Introverts, however, are not just going reach out, but if you reach out to them one on one that will be helpful. A way to tell a NT about what it's like to have aspergers is to show them YouTube videos about the subject...like videos on sensory issues. I was so confused about what these issues really were until I saw a video about what it is like for aspies to walk down the street. I had no idea that you guys hear everything at the same level. It was a real eye opener.
Anyways, I obviously don't have all the answers here, but please don't feel negatively towards NT's...we are imperfect people, and a lot of us really do try to become better people everyday. It's a lifelong struggle. We are not always going to understand things if we don't have something to base it off of. That's when things get frustrating for us. It's like why is something that should be no issue an issue? One aspie I know just automatically assumes I should automatically know what she is thinking at all times...and gets upset when I don't. Or gets really upset when she can't find something....like it's the end of the world and she's going to die if she can't find it...and there's more. That can get frustrating for me and that's something aspies need to know, but I still like her nonetheless. I probably just went way off topic, but there was my two cents.

The employment one is one bad perception i can't overcome. Very few employers will even look at me, but if they can overcome the misperceptions, i can show to be very technically competent.

Maybe you should find an introverted NT. I have those types of problems with extremely extroverted people, because I'm automatically being singled out as not as outgoing. I also have the issue with the bonding. I will share ideas, and people think it's a waste of time. They just sit there, drink, and talk about irrelevant things. One thing I found is if you just talk about really small things that happened (maybe something at work, so on) people relate better and you all begin to talk about the same subject. But it gets old after a while.

I'm not at all an introvert though. I like to party like the rest of them. The problem is I alienate introverts by being talkative and hating awkward silences.

The fact that many NTs HATE us shouldn't be sugarcoated to Aspies. It's a reality that we have to live with and learn as early as possible to protect ourselves from.

Indeed, many NTs don't just reject us but actively HATE us and wish us destroyed. It's generally due to our innocently telling things as we see them and analyse them, with total obliviousness to the political play of powers - our "emperor is nude" comments. These comments destroy their self-delusions, and since these people have their whole lives based on illusion, their whole person is an illusion construct, and we are therefore perceived as maliciously trying to destroy them. Thus the urge to destroy us "back". At worst, they try to destroy us because by telling it like it is, we destroy their game of duping others in the group. In either case, the NT has a very strong need to destroy us, for what they perceive as their very survival.

Again, aspies have to be aware of this to develop ways to protect ourselves, and not be told we're just being "paranoid". Dismissing reality is a dangerous thing to do in this case. We ARE at great risk in these situations, more so if we're taught to blame ourselves for those NTs' hatred.

I would not dwell on what "some" NTs are capable of moondust. In any society there are always going to be a a few bad apples with attitude problems against any minority or special needs group.

Carrying these beliefs about NTs is not healthy for yourself.