Autistic Encapsulation----Protecting The Self From Pain

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Littlebee wrote:

(A disclaimer before I begin. Marybird, since you are the one person who resp0onded to my question it will seem like what I am going to write is a response to you, but this is really not in response to that post, and thanks for your answer. Amazing understandings are coming to me from having reading the one message about special interests you wrote on another thread which I quoted, I think on this thread. It had the effect of breaking something loose so I could see my special interests in a new way....)

To comment on my own post, --the material in the [box]: This material obviously means something different to different people who are reading it. If it is not taken as a question, the perceived 'meaning' becomes kind of crystallized and so it loses its question quality. One interprets from the basis of what ones knows, and if one sticks to that, it begins to represents what one knows, so if it does not align with what one knows an inner polarization occurs which kind of represents-- oneself-- and ones inner battle with the world, so whether one is in agreement or disagreement, it becomes a pivot which spins one emotionally in a spin and then one ends up back where one started. I think that in general this is how mechanical thinking works, and for people, autistics, anyone, this thinking can form a shell. From the perspective of being i'nside' this shell, whatever I look at is inside the shell with me, so a vase is inside the shell, but it is also outside of 'me' and I am outside of 'it'-- therefore there occurs an electromagnetic attraction similar to a form of osmosis between the vase and myself, as the vase symbolically represents myself, and if I am not fully conscious but am functioning unconsciously in the sense that certain trauma that is repressed is carried into the present,then I cannot know the vase, but only can know what I know, which the vase represents to me. So I cannot know freedom.

Is it it possible to take away the underlying meaning of what I know from the vase and simply see the vase while knowing and understanding what it is, a vase?

Would doing this take away "me" from myself or would it give my real self back to me?

Shells are not absent from nature.

A turtle is born with one and pulls back inside at danger. But the turtle never departs mentally from the world around it. Nor does it have to face the threat. It tries to survive the attack and then will try and depart.

The Pillbug (or Rolly Polly bug) curls into a ball. The Hermit Crab seeks out shells and drags them along with them.

So a shell can be useful in a defensive way certainly. A person might mimic these behaviors by wearing armor or curling in a ball to protect from a bear.

But is the act of using or falling into a mental shell ever a positive element? Can it ever be manipulated in a positive way? I can't think of any examples. It always seems, in humans, a dysfunctional behavior, as humans do not withdraw inward like that in normal interaction. And unlike the animals I mentioned above, the attacker or threat (real or percieved) is still there waiting for you when you come out of it, still to be dealt with.

This is a wonderful message...thanks so much.

Yes, there is nothing positive about forming a protective shell, except if there is something a person cannot face, that is perceived as something that would destruct him, then he has to do it, so it is natural. From this angle I would call it creative. A child is intelligent, but his information is limited, so he uses whatever resources he has available, and this would be the device of manipulating his own functioning. It is a complex situation which I would like to enquire into in great depth with others participating on this thread.

The way I see it, generally speaking,is that the way in is the way out, so if a human being retreats into a shell to protect himself from feeling pain, then feeling this pain is probably be the way out; however from the perspective of not feeling this pain, which is the intent, and I would say an intelligent intent, then feeling the pain would make no sense, so, though it is the way out in one sense, in another sense it is not. A classic conundrum.

I would suggest an alternative approach would be to use the same device, that of encapsulation itself, as this is a natural aspect of human brain function. And do not think this is my own idea. For many thousands of years certain human beings have known about, experimented with and fine fined tuned the conscious use of such a principle..

I am glad it came accross well. I have been having a small stretch lately of coming accross too blunt or something of that nature.

But I am with you so far, as in understanding what you just wrote. And in the course of giving advice to others have generally used the principle that the way out is outward not inward. That is retreating into oneself is usually counterproductive as far as interfacing with the world. I even use those words. But I get what you are saying about taking it from the perspective of the pain/discomfort, and can imagine times when it is severe enough to have to do something or risk meltdown, etc.

Forgot to mention that the circle or ball or capsule is symbolic and not exactly literal. For one thing, nformation is generally assimilated in terms of a spiral in that many layers and dimensions of experience at various intersection points are assimilated. Capsule is a very interesting word, by the way. If you split it into two consonant bases, c-p and s-l and put different vowels in and run these bases forward and backward (so p-c and l-s).

Also, just thought of this, but in a circle or enclosure, a spiral cannot occur, as there is no opportunity for much integration and interchange with the outside world, so the energetic spiral motion could turn into a vibrational repetition or stim.

And a key point here, when we talk about "pain," it is kind of just a word. The actual deep emotional pain is unbearable. This is why people do not and cannot bear it unless they have a very good reason. Bear is an interesting word, as it also represents generation..

Yes, emotional or mental discomfort can become very hard to bear. I am not sure it is directly comparable to physical pain. If you have experienced anything close to the top end of physical pain (generally accepted 1-10 scale), then you know that indeed is very bad. I am not sure emotional or mental pain ever becomes that acute. Though duration is a factor too.

I think of withdrawl or encapsulating as the act of placing a barrier between yourself and some stimulus. I am having a hard time envisioning it as a spiral. Unless maybe as a series of concentric circles? Connected like a spiral, cut not drawing you so much down as deeper in with more layers of walls around you?

Bringing Stimming into it is interesting. I am not up on its theory except a vague idea that it is somehow helping to block out outside stimulus. Perhaps by creating a benign sort of white noise that itself does not distract you.

This seems intended to be a functional comparison, meaning it serves a purpose to make this comparison, but I cannot see what purpose it exactly serves. It might be interesting to discuss this.


Sorry, I did not explain the spiral concept clearly at all, and I think I bit off more than I can chew in terms of explaining that concept right now, but as experience is being processed and moving up and down in the body, some part is being discarded in the case of food, air and water and even ideas. In terms of understanding, when something is completely understand or felt to be understood, then the experience has moved to the top, to the cap. It is capped, and a movement of complete self expression spontaneously occurs, even if only a mental movement.. So all the while the circle of assimilation is getting smaller as the material moves up..It also should be noted that mental processing occurs by the excretion of minute amounts of water by tiny capillaries in the brain--I read this once, and have the book in my home, but cannot lay my hands on it right now. Presumably all of this is happening for the person who is autistic, too, but the scope is limited. So he is kind of stuck in a portion of a spiral, generally speaking.

Personally I do not think this is what is happening. I think it is an attempt to connect left brain with right brain function, so basically the making of a vibrational bridge. It is accounting for data that has been left out, so serving as a substitute. This is necessary when fine tuning is not occurring to the degree it would need to in order for functioning to be optimal in that the autistic person is leaving out some kind of information order to form his own little room. I also think that one way a person makes this room is by becoming sensitive to outside stimuli. I question if sensitivity to outside stimuli is exactly what causes him to make this room. I think it is more that he does not understand how to integrate data. The intense world theory sort of explains it, but not completely, as it leaves out the environmental affect. It is also my opinion that a certain intensity of perceptions, which I do believe is genetic, is actually a survival device, and originally, at least, an effective one. .It is a little more complex than this, though, as sensory affects can also become amplified when a person becomes alienated.

Verdandi WAS working at a job she was capable of, and very well may have excelled in. Accomodations for her sensory issues were not in any way unreasonable because there WERE other rooms that were not being used.

Verdandi is passionate, brilliant [I'm envious] and knowledgeable. She has both the ability and the desire to be successful in business but she is being denied small accomodations that would make that a reality.

As far as that triggering someone who is not disabled to demand that they receive the same because they prefer quiet, well, that person does not need special considerations. They need to grow up, and if they choose not to, that is no reason to deny simple accomodations for those who need them.

vickygleitz wrote:

Actually this whole conversation is unreasonable, because, according to what she has written, she never even asked for accommodations---that was according to her just an afterthought.



Well, obviously this is your spin about these other people..They have their own spin about this, I'm sure. Anyway, my threads are intended to be for enquiry and not the repetitive acting out of scripts, no matter how clever various intellectual points that are made, so I am meaning learning something new about the world, about oneself... And, also, by the way, when I talk about playing the autism card, I do NOT mean applying for disability. I am all for people who cannot work for whatever reason, psychological and/or physical, receiving disability.



As I recall, forget on which thread, but very recently, Verdandi was, it seemed to me, blaming her problems on the people at this call center, and saying she may never be able to work again because they did not give her a private room, or something to this effect. But this is all after the fact, as she has also stated that at the time it never occurred to her to ask for the use of such a room.

I don't have time to write much now, but to Verdandi, if you happen to be reading this, the political ideas you expressed were good. I think that kind of approach of educating people on how others sort and grade those less fortunate than themselves into various categories in order to basically discount them and use them for whatever selfish purpose is valuable and someone has to do it. It is a noble purpose to educate people about this and society changes because of it, and I can understand pointing it out here if certain things come up, if it doesn't turn into a subtle form of grandstanding from ones special interest; however, one also can benefit by seeing how one's own psychological dynamic fits into the world. My threads are intended to approach more from this angle. One problem is that everything is all mixed in together, so it can be really difficult to sort things out. At least it has been for me. I will write more about this, and anyone is welcome to talk about their feelings on my threads as long as the focus in to some degree on oneself, on self observation and not just trying to fix or change other people, especially when it becomes the acting out of an agenda.. I know I can do it, too, and am trying to keep an eye on myself re this tendency.

You perceive yourself as an intellectual, and yet you did not even bother to read the paper on which you founded this thread. You have looked down upon people in this thread multiple times.

I read through the paper fully, hoping to contribute to this discussion, only to find that the original author had not bothered to do the same. I plowed through your poorly written blocks of text, shuddered at your lack of respect for your fellow members on this forum, and I have come to a conclusion after reading a page and a half of this thread. I do not feel that you are intellectually capable of having this discussion and I will not be participating.

Emylee. actually I don't perceive myself as an intellectual. This is how you perceive I perceive myself. Also, I did not found this thread on an excerpt of a book by Francis Tustin. I was just in a hurry to start it and felt it was either then or never, as someone had asked me yet again about this subject, and I had been promising to start this thread for a long time, so I goggled "autistic encapsulation" and found that. and there was something in the intro which seemed to correspond to what I was meaning by that and stuck that link in as I was in a hurry to go someplace.


It was not a paper, just the intro and first chapter from a book, and immediately someone posted a link to an interview about the intense mind theory. I am suspecting you had a negative reaction to some drama here and that triggered something painful in yourself, and if so, I am sorry. This thread has not gotten off to a good start, but be assured, the least glamorous and most scorned of my threads will have the most important material hidden inside, like raw diamonds obscured by chunks of mud.

Hi Emylee. Please reconsider if only to pass along your understanding to the rest of us.

Perhaps you're a published author or have other credentials many of us do not? I doesn't matter. Few of us appear here in our professional "garb" and enjoy remaining "casual" with our online family and friends. You might consider treating us with a little "slack" if you don't mind. And in return I will attempt to understand others better as well (my particular failing).

Please come back.

denny

Hi littlebee. Thanks for the thread.

I keep getting the feeling the encapsulation you bring forward is merely another way to describe ordinary memory. How is your "encapsulation" different?

The way I understand memory is that everyone's memory is unique. If someone has a bad experience (or a good experience) the memory of this is retained and used to modify future actions. In the case of an NT any social deviations will be modified by experience and by peers, which is intended to change their understanding of an experience to a socially acceptable and conforming one.

For an ASD person, such as myself, social deviations may not be so readily modified and so may be retained for use later. Is this the "encapsulation" as you present it? Aside from the "auto-correct" vs. the "assimilation" of memories, what do you see as other significant differences?

In terms of my personal encapsulation I'd say the experiences of the years between 1 and 4 years of age has created a negative "capsule" in my life that effects everything I do, think or see. But I don't feel "encapsulated" because I'm definitely not in IT, although it's definitely within ME.

denny

Hi Zen Den...thanks...I can't reply to any of this right now as I have been on the computer for several hours already, but for now will share this: This may sound a little whacky, but he subject of autistic encapsulation is so painful for me to write or even think about that I can barely participate on my own thread. The personal discomfort I have felt from the drama that has occurred on this thread is negligible and really very slight compared to what the thought of even beginning to really tackle this topic brings up in me.

I did not ask for accommodations because I did not know I could ask for accommodations.