Is Aspergers Syndrome more disabling than Down Syndrome?

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cyberdad
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21 Jan 2014, 7:27 am

Verdandi wrote:

This is true. It's also true that after pre-natal tests if something like Down Syndrome is identified, many doctors put a huge amount of pressure on women to abort because of, basically, ableism.

For example:

http://www.savingdowns.com/mothers-bein ... na-bifida/

http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/down-s ... e-to-abort
.

Yes the role of doctors in these decisions can't be denied. Interesting that father's aren't mentioned? it's not almost as if fathers are invisible or not relevant in these decisions??

Verdandi
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21 Jan 2014, 7:48 am

cyberdad wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

Yes the role of doctors in these decisions can't be denied. Interesting that father's aren't mentioned? it's not almost as if fathers are invisible or not relevant in these decisions??

I am fairly certain fathers do play a role in these decisions, but for various reasons that doesn't get discussed as frequently.

Overall I kind of think that the person doing the heavy lifting really needs to have the most say in whether that pregnancy will continue. Like fathers have input, but they're not the ones risking fun stuff like preeclampsia, gestational diabetes, miscarriage, cesarean delivery, childbirth mortality, etc., but that's really between couples when the decision comes up.

naturalplastic
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21 Jan 2014, 9:50 am

886 wrote:

qawer wrote:

1. Do you think Aspergers Syndrome is more disabling than Down Syndrome in todays society? Why/why not?

I hate comparisons, personally - I hate to say anything is better or worse than the other and I hate to think either is entitled to anything as a result. But put it this way, and since asked - I've never seen anyone with down syndrome be successful, as harsh as it is to say, I've never seen them live alone, work beyond minimum wage, and I would think most will be home bound for most of their lives. It's a stretch to say that about any aspie - we're going to struggle hard in a lot of areas socially but we can be independent in our lives.

Diabetes can be inborn (like autism, and aspergers).

My sister is an NT with lifelong (since highschool) diabetes. And Im a non-diabetic aspie. Both conditions are inborn. Which of us is 'worse' off? Would either of us trade in one condition for the other. I dont envy her, and doubt she envies me. You cant even compare the two things- it warps your mind to even to try to think of it terms of "would you trade in one condition if you had to take the other".

LostInSpace
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21 Jan 2014, 1:20 pm

kazma wrote:

yes we shouldn't compere but the fact that the symptom we have are invisible unlike Down Syndrome make it more disabling as people treat them better yes mostly out of pity sadly but it true for instance no one would ever be nasty to someone with Down Syndrome but wound not give that same courtesy to an aspie

This is very, very not true. People are nasty to individuals with Down syndrome all the time, particularly when they assume that the person won't understand they are being insulted. You should read up on some of the things people with Down syndrome have written about what it is like to have the condition and how they are treated by society. Here is a blog entry by someone with Down syndrome that discusses how he is sometimes treated by people in the community and also dispels the myth that people with Down syndrome are always smiling and happy:

Bullying, stereotypes, & Down syndrome

People on here are always so (justifiably) upset about autism stereotypes, and I find it upsetting that stereotypes for people with Down syndrome are sometimes perpetuated on this board. That last part is not directed at you- it's something I've noticed generally on this board and specifically in this thread.

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cyberdad
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22 Jan 2014, 12:52 am

Verdandi wrote:

True, but couples tend to make decisions together, having said that the mother's preferences would carry the most weight...as you say...

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22 Jan 2014, 2:38 am

cyberdad wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

True, but couples tend to make decisions together, having said that the mother's preferences would carry the most weight...as you say...

Oh, I agree. I was trying to say that I think couples probably do make the decision together.

cyberdad
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22 Jan 2014, 4:55 am

LostInSpace wrote:

kazma wrote:

Agreed, I have absolutely no respect for any Aspies on this forum to make derogatory comparisons with people with Downs Syndrome as if they somehow feel entitled.

cyberdad
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22 Jan 2014, 4:56 am

Verdandi wrote:

cyberdad wrote:

Verdandi wrote:

True, but couples tend to make decisions together, having said that the mother's preferences would carry the most weight...as you say...

Oh, I agree. I was trying to say that I think couples probably do make the decision together.

I'm probably making it sound more simple than it actually is.

qawer
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31 Oct 2014, 7:42 am

CockneyRebel wrote:

qawer wrote:

CockneyRebel wrote:

qawer wrote:

CockneyRebel wrote:

We have Hitler to thank for the mess that humanity has gotten itself into. If Hitler was never in power, many more people would respect all human life and not just the lives of "perfect babies".

Hitler just represents the "ultimate" of what our society represents: only the best race should survive - only in our society it is the people with highest social status that should survive.

We live in a Hitler society, always will. The weakest individuals are now what the jews were before.

That's just your opinion. I don't believe that there are weak people and strong people. I feel that all man is created equal. I feel that Hitler has done a lot of damage to the world. What era are you living in? I feel that all people who are conceived should have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You don't kill someone, just because they're handicapped. I feel that all people who are conceived and born are strong and everybody has the strength and will to survive. I don't believe that anybody is weak at all. God gives all people free will, whether they're disabled or not, and just because people are disabled in any way doesn't mean that they're weak. I also prefer the company of the special needs people that you call weak. I love special needs people so much, that I call them Sid after the Flushed Away character. I feel that it's very horrible the way the world thinks of special needs people. I don't see special needs as the weakest link. I see them as an asset to society. People are more important than money and people are money. The world needs special needs people. There are a lot of special needs people who work. Okay, maybe they don't work with the big guys. My point is that people with all disabilities should be born and they should be given opportunities to work for salaries. The hiring of all people helps the economy. I love special needs people. I don't see them as weak. That's why I'm against abortion, euthanasia and assisted suicide. There is no surplus population and the world is going through a demographic winter. Everybody should be brought into this world. God makes no crap. This is just my opinion. There is also no such thing as a Master Race either and I hope it never gets to that point. The world would turn into a big gory mess if the legacy of the Holocaust was to continue. I'm sure that special needs people and seniors resent being called weak and their probably very angry that many people still see them in that light. Nobody on this planet is a Useless Eater in my opinion.

Hi CockneyRebel.

Just to make sure there is no doubt: I find that all men are created equal too. But society unfortunately disagrees with me!

I was simply concluding that we live in a society with a mentality similar to that of Hitler: people are not equal, some are weak, some a strong, we should ensure the strong survive, and not care about the weak (but I wholeheartedly disagrees with that!)

I think the fact that society has this attitude is awful, distasteful, terrifying, unfair, depressing, emotionally painful, and a lot more terrible things. I find that this attitude always is present underneath whenever there are strong, all-dependent group socialization: whenever it is considered fun to mock one another, Hitler-attitude on the low scale is present. It is awful.

Oops....sorry. :oops:

Peace.

Peace my friend. :flower:

I did not mean to sound upset, sorry if I did. (-:

Fnord
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31 Oct 2014, 8:13 am

qawer wrote:

I wonder whether Aspergers Syndrome is in fact over all more disabling than Down Syndrome in today's society?

Recent data indicates that persons with Trisomy-21 ("Down Syndrome") are almost certain to develop a form of Alzheimer's Disease by the time they reach their 40's.

Article 1: Down Syndrome and Alzheimer's Disease

Article 2: Alzheimer's and Down Syndrome

Quote:

"Alzheimer's disease occurs three to five times more often among people with Down syndrome than the general population. People with Down syndrome are also more likely to develop Alzheimer's disease at a younger age than other adults."

I'm in my late 50s. If I had Down Syndrome, I'd likely be either living in a vegetative state or dead.

I think Down syndrome is much, much worse than Asperger's Syndrome.

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31 Oct 2014, 12:25 pm

LostInSpace wrote:

...People are nasty to individuals with Down syndrome all the time, particularly when they assume that the person won't understand they are being insulted. You should read up on some of the things people with Down syndrome have written about what it is like to have the condition and how they are treated by society. Here is a blog entry by someone with Down syndrome that discusses how he is sometimes treated by people in the community and also dispels the myth that people with Down syndrome are always smiling and happy:

Bullying, stereotypes, & Down syndrome

People on here are always so (justifiably) upset about autism stereotypes, and I find it upsetting that stereotypes for people with Down syndrome are sometimes perpetuated on this board. That last part is not directed at you- it's something I've noticed generally on this board and specifically in this thread.

Perhaps there would be greater understanding towards DS here if individuals with it were encouraged to participate here. Familiarity is humanizing.

I see no problem with someone choosing to terminate a pregnancy that is guaranteed to suffer a severe disability. Where does anyone get off trying to force someone to carry a child they will lack the capability to raise? Insisting they carry the pregnancy to term against their will is unreasonable.

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31 Oct 2014, 1:11 pm

qawer wrote:

1. Do you think Aspergers Syndrome is more disabling than Down Syndrome in todays society? Why/why not?

It depends on case. Hard to tell. I think that AS is in most cases a little less disabling than DS. Why? DS usually comes with mental retardation, which sucks, AS gives you a little better perspective, especially if you can monetize your special interest.

qawer wrote:

2. Would you rather have chosen to have Down Syndrome or Aspergers Syndrome if you had had the choice at birth? Why that choice?

Aspergers. See explanation above.

naturalplastic
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31 Oct 2014, 1:38 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I think it depends on the individual and how severe their case of autism or downs syndrome is.

The word he choose was "aspergers", not "autism".

LFA folks maybe as bad off as DS folks.

But if you're taking the LFA's off the table, and are only comparing the high end of the austism spectrum to DS people then-there is no comparison. DS folks are far more disabled than aspies (or HFAs). I never met, nor heard of a DS person classified as "high functioning".

MadHatterMatador
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31 Oct 2014, 3:47 pm

Down Syndrome has a much higher employment rate. There aren't really enough statistics on marriage and friendships and things like that, but I would guess it's about equal for both disorders. Social ability is more important than intellectual ability for succeeding in this world, though the health factors that go into Down Syndrome are obviously worse. The other factor is overall happiness, and I found one study that suggested Down Syndrome is better in that aspect, but that was just for younger kids. The adult studies I found were for each disorder individually, and it also appears from that, that people with Down's Syndrome are more likely to be happy overall than autistics. Suicidal thoughts are also a lot more common with autistics. My overall ruling is that autism is generally more disabling, but that's just a guess.

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Last edited by MadHatterMatador on 31 Oct 2014, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LokiofSassgard
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31 Oct 2014, 4:12 pm

It really depends. I would think it'd be the other way around. Down Syndrome is harder to live with because it can come with several complications in their lives. They also have trouble speaking and suffer greatly with their development. I've had a few friends with down syndrome before. One of them refused to write because he didn't like to and knew he couldn't do it without support.

It all depends on the severity though. Like others said, some with down syndrome live pretty great lives, have kids and a family of their own and even a job. Same as how most aspies can do the same. It depends on the severity of the condition and the supports they are receiving to overcome their most challenging symptoms.

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lightningorb
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31 Oct 2014, 10:58 pm

Yes cuz with downz u can get benefits from the government.. and with aspergers its harder it get it, since u can have a job, but its too "hard"for u

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