punish or accommodate autistic kid for mealtime behaviour?

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I agree with Tawaki about lots of praise for changing his behavior. I would even have Sis thank him too. Even though he was doing it to be mean having her mention that she noticed will really affect him and will encourage him and show him that nice gets a thank you even from the person he tried to be mean to. That goes a long way in teaching him to appreciate her.

This is a GREAT observation. We really need to help our son see the benefits of good behaviour. He really struggles having productive social interactions and all too often resorts to just teasing other kids instead. He has definitely figured out how to get negative reactions from kids. It's the positive kind of reaction that he struggles so much with.

Anything we can do to re-enforce the benefits of positive behaviour is a must...

Last edited by Sniglet on 28 May 2014, 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sniglet - consider the possibility that your son is terrified by the possibility of having to take part in a meaningful relationship.

Throughout my life, I have avoided relationships. And on the occasions when I have been unable to avoid a relationship, I have resorted to abuse or some kind of melt-down, so that I have a means of escape.

This is a very good point. I have had those kinds of feelings as well when I have been scared of having a relationship with particular people.

This might be picky but rather than suggest your daughter thank him, I would watch to see how uncomfortable he is. If it's a lot than gently support his change for the better without too much direct talk about it.

And maybe his sister could tell him what she appreciates about him or what she likes, but ONLY IF she wants to. She's done nothing wrong to apologize for, and he will be better off I think if at home he hears more truth with the underlying feeling and thought matching the words people say---because people probably confuse him.

Plus though I'm sure his sister loves him, to say "thank you for not being mean to me" and mean it and not sound snotty is a really tough thing. If your 11 year old is that grown up it's great, but it's not good to rush him or her faster than where they are in their development. I think it can help him to not hear insincere things at home, this is really confusing when you have ASD.

When relationships are confusing it's frightening, emotions are heightened, people get angry. Anything you can do to help your son with confusion about social interactions is probably going to be positive for him and for your family.

This could be a great life lesson opportunity for sister too in how to learn to sincerely and genuinely forgive someone and to really appreciate the change and repentance. Like Waterfalls just mentioned, it is hard to sincerely thank someone who has hurt you when he stops and even to learn to sincerely appreciate the effort of that person to change. But she is not apologizing. She should not. There is nothing for her to apologize for unless she was antagonizing him on purpose by eating a certain way.

I don't see any problem with him doing that.

When I was a kid I didn't like eating in front of other people. At home if there was company I ate in a different room. At school they made a big deal out of it and I'd get in trouble. My mother gave me permission to eat in an old teacher's classroom where it would have just been me and the teacher but even though the teacher didn't mind they wouldn't allow it and made me stay in the lunchroom during lunch. I mostly just didn't eat any lunch the two years I was in that school.

punish

There was a kids book I read my kids that I liked a lot about forgiveness, so it was more indirect. Beautiful pictures, though maybe written for younger children.

UPDATE: It's day 2 now and things are still going well. We made it through supper and breakfast without any box barricades, tantrums, or unpleasantness from anyone. I took my son to the market on the way home from school to let him pick out a special desert as a treat for him and his sister for getting along so well at meal-times. He chose 2 donuts (one for each of them), which they ate after a successful supper.

We had a scare at breakfast when my son wrinkled his nose at his sister and said "stop that". When we asked him to calm down he explained that she was licking her fingers (which was true). We all discussed this and agreed that licking fingers while eating isn't appropriate in our house (although it was pointed out that it was fine in some cultures). In the end, we made it through breakfast without any further disruptions.

In short, I think we have the beginnings of a breakthrough. There may be a few rough patches going forward but I am optimistic we won't see the boxes return.

In the end, I don't think we can pin the box barricade down to any one thing. I think my son really is bothered by some of my daughter's mealtime behaviour. I also think he enjoyed annoying her with the boxes.

My son also expressed, yet again, how upset he was that we are discussing his issues on WrongPlanet. My explanations about how this is a great group of people who only want to help him didn't seem to change his opinion.

I guess I will just have to keep my participation with WrongPlanet my guilty secret. I just think the world of all you folks and really find this community to be terribly supportive and helpful.

Perhaps you could be a little less specific about your son. I think I understand how he feels about your discussing him--you're talking about him "behind his back", so to speak; he doesn't get to tell his side of the story. It's something adults do all the time, sure, but it still feels kind of bad when you're a kid, when your parents talk about you to other people.

Maybe you could explain to him--I'll never use your name, I'll never give any information that makes it possible to identify you; I'll never try to embarrass you; I'll never talk about anything that should be kept private. I think he needs to know that you respect him as a person.

By the way, yeah, it's difficult to cope with other people's bad table manners. I wonder if perhaps he could learn to look away. Getting Sis to stop licking her fingers would be nice, but he may in the future have to deal with people whose table manners are even worse. Give him a few tips to help him cope when that happens--looking away, distracting himself, etc. Asking people to "please stop" is appropriate at home, especially since his sister knows it bugs him, but in public, it has to get pretty extreme before it's okay to correct someone else's table manners.

And remember that to an autistic person, some of those unpleasant sensory stimuli are pretty intense. For example, the sound of Sis licking her fingers might be about as unpleasant to him as the sound of fingernails screeching across a chalkboard. Having to see her do it might be about as unpleasant to him as it would be if you had to watch somebody throw up. So, it is a difficult skill to learn, and may never be easy for him. Acknowledge his effort--he needs feedback to know when he's doing well. So does his sister, for that matter. She probably knows by now just how easy it is to wind up her brother just by licking her fingers. That's an awful lot of temptation for a kid, especially when she gets annoyed with him.

Good luck, and here's to keeping the peace at the dinner table, huh?

My son does this. He cannot deal with the sound of my daughter chewing with her mouth open.

That would make me sick. There is a fantastic video on Misophonia, the best I have ever seen I will find it and post it here. It was posted on a an old thread but it would be great to have it put up again. It is really important for parents to learn about this if their kids might have it.

Sniglet, sounds like you guys are really doing great. Make sure he gets a ton of positive reinforcement from dad in all of this too since same the sex parent is always so incredibly influential.

I understand that he is still salty about you getting help for him here. Perhaps he could come here and tell us his side and we can show him direct support as well so that he knows that we are not against him but are very supportive towards him. And Sister can post too since she has an autistic brother. We have some very young members here and with parental supervision they can post and have great conversations with us. Of course you want to supervise because we talk about adult topics on some threads. But there is even a whole section for teens here as well. I think it might be good for him to see that we like him and want to support him. And he can ask advice as well on things that are bothering him.

I don't want to diss your parenting, but I want to give you a perspective of how I would have reacted to that as a child AND the same as an adult:

My thoughts:

1. You are expecting me to have manners but not my sister. You are literally treating us differently.
2. You are probably treating me differently because of my autism.
3. No one understands WHY I find it disgusting
4. If relationships are about compromise, why am I the only one who has to change their behavior?
5. Again, it must be my autism. I'm only expected to change.

This can be both good and bad. The good as that you seem to be happy. The bad is that your son is not happy and you aren't validating his emotions. When he tells you he is upset with you talking about him on here, instead of listening to him, you seem to be saying, "OK, but I'm doing this for your own good." This may be, but he feels like it's a violation.

If I were you, depending on his age, I would ask what you can do to help him. Say that you recognize you may have been a bit unfair but you don't understand why. You need his help to understand why he is feeling the way he feels. Also, you need to rule out sensory problems. To this day, I FREAK OUT when I hear people chew food. It drives me more than insane. With every swish of food inside of the mouth, my brain shuts down a little more. My vision gets fuzzy and I feel claustrophobic. You might be punishing him for something he can't help. Not only that, but you feel fit to consider your daughter's feelings and NOT your sons. He will probably continue to be upset. It doesn't make one feel good when your emotions and needs aren't validated. We are told our whole lives WE have to just be different because we don't fit it. When your family does it, it's like the ultimate betrayal.

I hope this helps you understand how even though the situation may seem to be better, it may not be better for your son. I'm glad you're trying to help your son, and I really hope you can both be happy.

I agree that maybe you should have him come on here and tell his side of the story. He might feel like people are ganging up on him. I sure would.

I get what bleh is saying, but a 9 year old cannot be allowed to be the determiner of what good manners are.

And child's worries about being talked about I would respond to with a discussion about internet behavior that is more or less safe and how as a mom OP is avoiding giving identifying information like names and locations and what to do with responses that are troubling. So someday when he is posting somewhere in the future he can hopefully be safer and cope better.

Just my opinion, but an 11 yo licking her finger at the table doesn't seem to me to be a big deal. And if it were really a big deal to this child, he would need to understand this for what it is. His issue, and if he wants to be accommodated in life, he needs to have help learning to let people know without attacking them as outside loving family, the world will not race to be understanding of what appears to be rude behavior on his part, and will only accommodate so far, and only if people see it as worth doing.

Even accommodations in school. He might be in need, but schools have discontinued services because children acting like they don't want help rather than directly communicating their needs. Not saying this is fair or right, but this is how things really are. So if child will need school and peers to accommodate some of his needs, as a parent, it is IMO parent's responsibility to help child learn to graciously accept help needed or find someone who can help child learn this.

Otherwise he will continue this behavior in the world and be much worse off for it. IMO.