I'm really sick of attacks against NT's here

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He's sick of attacks against NT's.

I don't notice that it's rampant; he has a different perception.

We're two different people.

Get off your soapbox, please!

I don't read the whole forum, mostly I just stick to this section of the forum and I don't even read all the threads in this section. This is a huge forum, I simply don't have time to read everything. When people start threads like this out of context I have no idea what they are referring to so I can only imagine what it is about. It would make more sense if people reference specifically what has upset them. Or it might be better to address it directly to the person who made the comments.



This is something I have put too much attention on throughout my life, being conscious of other people, listening, trying to understand others, and not only understand but to accommodate them and adjust myself to them. The thing is, if ones does this without also giving some time and attention to one's self, it can lead to extreme burnout and exhaustion.

I think your interpretation of my comments is quite negative and not understanding at all, instead it is oriented to your own point of view and unaccepting that someone else may have a different perspective.

Exactly.

Also might be worth keeping in mind, the MORE one feels they have to adjust the MORE frustration and irritation they may experience.

Thank you!

I don't recall anyone saying it is rampant--- you seem to be saying that other people are saying this....though I do think there is kind of a pronounced tendency and people, especially people who are suffering and hurting, can pick this behavior pattern up from each other, I just wrote on this thread a little while ago that I have seen many people doing this nt bashing thing but for everyone of these people there is someone responding with a more balanced perspective..(and I will add, generally gently giving this more balanced perspective.) .Here is what I wrote:


And again, after this thread I bet a lot less people will be doing it, and that is good, isn't it? Don't you think that would be good? Imo people should try to stop doing it if they can. Even if just one person is doing it, he should work on it. Of course he does bot have to do what I say. He would need to see the sense of it. Maybe we should enquire into this. Maybe I am wrong, but this is how I see it, and it concerns me that some young people may be learning this kind of behavior here.

And I guess there is chance this kind of behavior when I see it stands out to me, as I am concerned about it so more likely to notice it when I see it. I assume that people who are doing it and/or feel its okay to do it are probably less likely to notice it and/or downplay it.

So what is your interest in downplaying it? Why is it so important to you to do that? I think it is topic worth more than just glancing at and then dismissing.

littlebee wrote:

Lol - how many times have tried to get people to only talk about what you agree with? And you still haven't figured out it never works.

I think Ezra is just frustrated with what he perceives as negativity. Also, many people on this website don't know any other Autistic people to compare non Autistics too. He knows many. And he hasn't had to struggle trying to pay rent in world where he is constantly misunderstood and penalized for it.

I'm not saying people should bash anyone, but everyone has a right to their own opinion based on their life experiences, And I'm not condescending to Ezra because I enjoy his posts a lot, but he does have a lot to learn about life yet. We all did when we were 13. I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be a leader and advocate when he gets older though - it's just a whole different world for him then it was for us.

I, myself, would rather not see NT-bashing at all.

I, like others within this Forum, have known many decent (and more than decent) NT's.

I am also of the belief that there is a vague boundary between ASD and NT neurology; I don't believe there is a sharp demarcation between the two.

I squarely adhere to this viewpoint: People with ASD's must meet NT's half way; people who are NT must meet ASD's half way. One cannot live without the other.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 02 Jun 2014, 9:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I think people downplay things when they are not focusing on them.
Also things can be interpreted in a more neutral way if they are not focusing on the negative aspects.

Yeah but that never works. If it did, people wouldn't get frustrated.

Hey, I don't even like the word NT, much less do I bash them, but life is tough with Autism. OR maybe you could guys could start a forum called, Everybody is Hunky Dory with Autistic People (or something like that ).

It's true, not everybody is "typical."

I just use the term "NT" as a frame of reference.

I don't use it in "real life."

Threads don't always need to be prompted by something.

Hi. But I still need to give my own point of view, right? This is basically the only section I have read the whole time I have been here except when someone has linked to another part of the forum...and that has happened only two or three times in fifteen months. Yes, from one perspective it would be nice to give quotes, but then people would take that being aggressive. This NT bashing is so predominant I really don;t see how anyone could miss it, so I do not think anyone would think it would be necessary to give links. Anyway, to me it's not so much about individual doing it, but to some degree that this kind of outlook is being promoted by a percentage of people, however big, so I think a group tendency to some degree, though not the whole group.



Yes, I suppose it would seem negative to you, as we have almost diametrically opposed points of views and our own point of view is very meaningful to us..

This is what I wrote:


"I don't have much time to comment now, but to me this is a very problematic comment. In short, I know you care about people as do I...I can feel it...yet I am seeing this situation much differently, though maybe I am missing something (and I, too, have had all kinds of social problems). From my perspective in my own personal life and based on extensive experience and observation of both self and others, when I am trying to figure out how I am different from other people, to me that is self-centered thinking and takes the focus off the real solution, which for me is being conscious of other people, no matter who they are, listening deeply to them and trying to understand them, though admittedly I am not always that good at it. The view you are presenting, though I understand is meaningful to yourself, and you want autistic people to be happy, is, in my opinion, basically without realizing it or intending to do so, promoting and perpetrating further unhappiness for autistic people.,."

I tried to acknowledge throughout the message that you have a different point of view, but I am speaking from my own experience, and I have a concern about it. And yes, I understand that people feel different and alienated...I have felt this way myself most of my life and in many ways still do, and I know this is a painful topic for many....but I also think many nt's feel alienated....maybe this point has already been made by someone...

I did read your other message earlier on this thread, and it is really well thought out and interesting, though I do not agree with the general gist of some of it.. Maybe we could better approach from that angle: Here is the link to it:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postp6081625.html#6081625

Also, perhaps the words nt bashing are not so great.. That is too much of a catch phrase, maybe, though it does kind of describe it, and yes, people do need to make some kind of a contrast between themselves and other people sometimes in order to understand their own behavior (and the behavior of other people) and look at it in context. I see nothing wrong with doing that except when it creates and reinforces what I have called the autism amplification affect and concordant with that a lot of unhappy feelings and emotions that go along with it.

I think a lot of good points were expressed on this thread, and some interesting points made by you, but felt that some people were afraid to respond to your final message maybe because of fear of group censure, and that is maybe why the thread died, so I responded, because I think this topic is too important for the subject to end so abruptly. I would have just let it go, but you the implication that this is not really even happening here was just too much for me...

I recall reading several comments on this thread from adults who are rent payers and who do know a lot of nt's, and these people agreed with Ezra.

The problem is that a realization of what in one religion, Buddhism, is referred to as "the truth of suffering: has to be realized as applying to ALL people, for the mind to be transformed and eventually transcend suffering, and this is the message of Christianity. too, or just of humanism in general---the humanistic perspective, and those who do not have it are bound to suffer more.

But yes, there is a lot of negative emotion toward nt's....Ezra did not just make that up...it is easy to see it in a lot of people's messages, and yes, they probably have very good reasons for feeling this, as people, any people in different cultures and various contexts can be very ignorant and cruel, especiually to someone who is different, but the approach of focusing on nt's in this way s in itself wrong. It will cause even more suffering. There may be another way....

I did not imply that it doesn't happen, I simply have not seen it...and since no one is providing any specific examples, I don't know whether it is something I quite literally have not read here, or something that I have overlooked, or something that I actually have a different perspective on. It is hard to have any kind of discussion about it when I don't even know what sort of comments are being alluded to.

Oy, if you're going to rephrase what I wrote, you should maybe just consider reading what I wrote first Never mind though, it's not important.

Of course Ezra didn't make it up, that's Ezra's perspective and he has every right to voice it.

I myself get tired of what feels like a lot of whining here sometimes, but I refrain from making comments such as that, at least on the forums themselves (except for the one right there which I just made), because well so many reasons, can't go into them all. Not worth it really. Just carry on.

PS - whence comes the day that I desire you to tutor me in spiritual matters, you will be the first to know (after me that is).

I think it's kind of odd that we are all spending so much time worrying about people voicing their grievances about NT's on this forum. I don't personally condone taking the actions of the few (I'm talking about NT's here) and placing them with the many, but how many NT's are actually concerned about the bashing and alienation that is done to spectrumites? I've only been on this forum for three weeks or so, and I've yet to see major NT bashing in the General Autism section of the site though, so maybe it occurs elsewhere.