NVLD - bad, misleading, inadequate name

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I think that the name "nonverbal learning disorder" for the syndrome which is pervasive and tends to affect not only cognitive, but also social, emotional, executive and sensory areas has to become obsolete. It is obviously misleading and inadequate. Bad, wrong name. Naming is just a learning or specific developmental disorder is not acceptable and harmful in my opinion - it is complex, syndromatic sort of "neurodiversity" which can be more destructive than some milder cases of ASD. It may be named as different way of "understanding" the reality by brain, but other than present in ASD. Not everyone with it can meet AS(D) diagnostic criteria, but people with it have marked social issues are present in it since earlier childhood. Not all have problems with maps and clocks or poor mathematic skills. Even not all have to be verbal thinkers.

I called it "hyperlogism" (due to "oververbal" profile of abilities which is present in it, has "opposite" resonance - rather like learning "hyperability" than "disability"). It is a serious and complex developmental disorder, a pervasive developmental disability, but other than autistic spectrum disorders. I think that some forms of hyperlogism can be named as sorts of autism which are not related to the syndrome described by Kanner. And for me hyperlogism is a sort of "aspieness", so people with "hyperlogism syndrome" can be named as "pure-blood Aspies" (it even may look more "pure" than "classical" sort of "aspieness" which is on one spectrum with childhood autism).

I would diagnose myself with "hyperlogism", not with autism spectrum disorder. I have other sort of PDD than "typical" autism.

In ICD and DSM "hyperlogism" and "derias" ("developmental rigid autism spectrum) should be in one category, separated from specific developmental disorders and learning disorders. "Hyperlogism" is not a learning disability - learning disability may be only one of the consequences of it. https://www.google.pl/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=S28JVYnhJMfm-gb8_oAg#q=nld+getting+dx+right+illinois - third link from it (HFA, AS, and NVLD: Differential Diagnosis by the SLP) contains interesting materials. "NLD" is too similar to AS in it, for me NLD described here is a true pervasive developmental disorder, even when ICD or DSM criteria are not met.

For me the term "nonverbal learning disability syndrome/spectrum" (N(V)LDS) sounds better (more serious) than "nonverbal learning disorder", but still contains innacuracy.

I found a text ("Treating NVLD in Children: Professional Collaborations for Positive Outcomes"; Jessica Broitman, John M. Davis, https://books.google.pl/books?id=IWVDAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA352&lpg=PA352&dq=nvld+schizotypal&source=bl&ots=k4a5069LHp&sig=88oY_wxiyGYZWfT-CxcCmSiuA1Q&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=2H0SVaP8HpXVatOugXA&ved=0CEcQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=nvld%20schizotypal&f=false) about five major categories of deficits and dysfunction and deficit in NVLD (from page 347):

1. Motor
2. Visual-spatial
3. Organisational
4. Social
5. Sensory

Hmmm... It looks strangely similar to categories affected by "polymixias" (my neologism from "poly" ("many") and "mix" (developmental condition which affects many areas of mental abilities and makes someone "odd", "inept"; counterpart of PDD/ASD term):

1. Social (such as dyssemia, interaction problems)
2. Emotional (such as anxiety, obsessiveness)
3. Activity (such as executive functioning problems, hyperactivity)
4. Somatic (such as sensory anomalies, perinatal issues)
5. Cognitive (such as motor problems, uneven cognitive skills distribution (like language and (or) visual-spatial problems))

So NVLD is a polymixia branch (autistic spectrum is an example of another branch of polymixia)! Polymixia, such as NVLD, is a neurodevelopmental disorder/anomaly. It is "general neurodiversity", not specific. Polymixia is "opposite" to "specific developmental disorder".

I think that people with "nonverbal learning disability syndrome" are not classified properly. This syndrome has to be put in one category of neurodevelopmental disorders with autism spectrum disorder, not with ADHD and especially not with dyslexia or dyscalculia!

I do badly with visual spatial/"which shape fits" type questions on IQ tests but also have long term problems when it comes to socially interacting with others. However I am not sure I fit the criteria for aspergers re interests . Over 30 plus years I have gone from a period of being obsessed with taping songs by genre and artist( and writing lists of songs by year) to genealogy to being obsessed with my rss feeds and posting articles to forums re mental health mainly, interspersed with this has been a moderate interest with politics.
I do not have a wide range of interests at any one time and after a while a previous interest either diminishes to some extent (genealogy) or goes altogether(recording/taping songs and writing song lists).
At the moment and for I guess the last 10- 12 years or more I have been spending a lot of time finding via rss feeds and other online sources mental health followed by political articles and posting them.
Overall my life revolves round being online.

I found these interesting http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedr ... ernld.html
http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldentryleve ... drome.html

I seem to fit most with both perceptual and social NVLD .

http://www.iqtest.dk - I did this test by the moment (it takes about 8 minutes) and the result was 99 (average). It is not so bad result because I did it fast. Perceptual NLD does not fit me so much, such as written experssive NLD (http://non-vld.wikispaces.com/NVLD+Subtypes).

Some other artcles from http://non-vld.wikispaces.com:

http://non-vld.wikispaces.com/Social+Functioning
http://non-vld.wikispaces.com/NVLD+VS+Asperger%27s

NLVD & Asperger’s:

Often confused and diagnosis is often dependent on who is doing the testing:
o Some practitioners do not differentiate
o Some see is as different points along a continuum
o Some see it as 2 separate disabilities with overlapping disorders/characteristics

NLD/Asperger's....................................................Asperger’s............................................................. Autism

The one major difference:
o the NLD child wants to learn social skills and is highly motivated to do so;
o the child with Asperger’s, despite interventions, does not learn to apply social knowledge because they are simply not interested to do so;

I am not so interested in normal social interactions... I have limited need of being loved. I have "obsessive" interest and I am "hyperkinetic", "hyperactive", "stimmable" (but also "spacey", "sluggish" and "lethargic"). I do not think that people with ASD have to be not interested in learning social skills.

I think that "social NLD" just has to be classified in the same category as AS(D) because of its impact to social skills and emotional area. Limited and (or) indiosyncratic (bizarre) social needs are not necessary in "pervasive developmental disability" in my opinion.

The way people are diagnosed here, I'm pretty sure someone who would be considered "NLD" or "NVLD" in another part of the world would simply be considered ASD here. I had never even heard of NLD/NVLD until I joined WP, but I knew of a number of people on the autism spectrum.

I tried that test and scored 84 which is better than another test of the same kind where I scored 56. http://psychologytoday.tests.psychtests ... gTest=1328

In both tests I didn't have much,if any, of a clue and answers I chose were tantamount to badly educated guesses. I would say the difference is that I "guessed" better on the test you posted. Averaging them out gives a score of 70.

I think that you have NVLD. But if you have also social problems, then the term "learning disorder" is too "weak" for me. I would name "social NLD" as a sort of "Aspergerism" and people with "S-NLD" are a subgroup of Aspies for me.

Looking at the 4 subtypes what stood out re me was:

perceptual

Present with problems in general organizational skills; including assignments unfinished and/or not submitted; messy


Academic concerns with mathematics (especially measurement, shapes, geometry)
mapping skills,
graphing and task-completion;


Social

Problems making and keeping friends, difficulty maintaining social
· conversation; loner personality

I think that "loner personality" and "fixative interests" are "autistic" features. They are more "autistic" than deficits in theory of mind, poor central coherence, serious sensory problems for me. I think that something which is named as "autistic spectrum disorder" is not only sort of developmental "autisticity". I would name "spectrum of childhood autism (Kanner's syndrome spectrum") as "developmental rigid autism spectrum". I would name "social NLD" as an other sort of developmental "autisticity".

http://www.currentpsychiatry.com/fileadmin/cp_archive/pdf/1007/1007CP_Letters.pdf

There is something about "neurodevelopmental syndromes characterised by social inadequacy and peculiarity". It may be the definition of something which I named "aucorigia" (this term was used to high-functioning individuals with something which can be classified as a "neurodevelopmental syndromes characterised by social inadequacy and peculiarity"). "Nonverbal learning disability syndrome" is one of the syndromes in this "league". Other are for example: (developmental rigid) autism spectrum disorders (classic "autistic spectrum", related to Kanner's syndrome), pathological demand avoidance syndrome, supposed "schizodevelopmental" disorders (similar or being schizotypal/schizoid/schizophrenic disorder starting in early childhood).

ADHD and "spatial learning disorders" by itself are not. Some people with ASD may function better than people with "NLD". And I write again that the name NVLD has to be changed. I named it as "hyperlogism" due to tendency to having verbal skills developed significantly better than visual-spatial-motor ones. Hyperlogism is clearly other than "classic" autism with visual thinking dominance, good visual thinking skills, splinter skills. Hyperlogism looks even more "aucorigic" for me than "kanneric" spectrum. "Kannerity" often has good visual memory, can be good in technical skills. Clumsiness appears to be common in both hyperlogism and kannerity. Hyperlogism is "dystechic" (lowers technical abilities), "kannerism" may do opposite. Both hyperlogism and kannerism bring large social ineptitude, but hyperlogism may look more "klutzy" due to poorer visual thinking skills (verbal thinking dominance appears to be common in it) and lower technical skills. In addition, hyperlogism may be more useful in school than "kannerism". Hyperlogism tends to be associated with above-average verbal abilities (such as grammar, syntax, early reading and adequate speech development, large vocabulary, good rote memory (really useful in school)) and the general potential of a person with hyperlogic aucory may be overestimated more easily than the potential of a child with "classic" autism spectrum disorder ("kanneric" aucory). Hyperlogism tend to have some important advantages in comparison to "kannerism": better theory of mind (but it still can be deficient), better central coherence, less sensory problems. So it generally looks as a more "friendly" sort of aucory than "kanneric".

We agree with Dr. Pollak’s suggestion that NLD someday might be classified within the DSM along a “neuro-developmental disorder spectrum characterized by deficits in social competence, judgment, and perception accompanied by impaired everyday functioning referable to these difficulties"

I suppose that autism spectrum disorder is an other sort of “neuro-developmental disorder spectrum characterized by deficits in social competence, judgment, and perception accompanied by impaired everyday functioning referable to these difficulties". ADHD or dyslexia does not belong to this spectrum. So "NLD" and ASD are different sorts of the same condition, probably unrelated, but belonging to the same category of neurodevelopmental disorders.

I may define "aucorigia" as "(neuro)developmental syndrome characterised by social inadequacy and peculiarity).

Most classic form of aucory for me is "hyperlogism" which is known as "nonverbal learning disability". This syndrome has developmental assets in verbal areas such as grammar, syntax, rote (verbatim) memory, early acquisition of speech and reading ability, it is often associated with predominance of verbal thinking style. Visual-spatial-motor skills are less developed than verbal, it leads to difficulties in more "technical" areas and physical education. It is associated with marked social ineptitude, especially in the area of nonverbal communication. Talking with others (poor pragmatic skills) may be also an issue. It is generally "more friendly" type of aucory than "derianic" because of better theory of mind (but some deficits may be present), better central coherence and typically lesser amount of sensory problems. This form of aucory may do not manifest so strongly in first three years of life.

Derianic aucory (from "deria" - term coined from the phrase "developmental rigid autism") is the sort of aucory which is clearly related to childhood autism (sometimes it is high-functioning form of it). It is associated with marked deficits in theory of mind, poor central coherence. Serious sensory integration problems are common. It is usually associated with marked predominance of visual thinking style, poor verbal and abstract thinking, problems with changes (need of sameness). Speech development is quite often delayed. It appears to be highly genetic.

"Classic" aucorigia is accompanied by above-average intellectual abilities ("classic", because autocontrast and originality (from which the word "aucorigia" comes from) are then more "striking" due to larger contrast between (intellectual) smartness and significant social inadequacy and peculiarity), such as above-average IQ or artistic talents. For example, it may quite often look like "little professor syndrome". Not all types of aucorigia are associated with Kanner's syndrome. Lack of theory of mind, empathy, central coherence, serious sensory disturbances, literal concrete thinking - they all are not aucorigic traits per se, but just may be common in some types of aucorigia. "Basic" condition of these traits is low functioning "derianic polymixia" (LF "autism spectrum" disorder), which is accompanied by intellectual disability and global language impairment or delay.

Hyperlogism per se is not "derianic". It is in some way opposite to derianism, which is characterised by for example poor language thinking and above-average use of visual thinking. "NLD" is more aucorigic per se than high-functioning derianism if "NLD" is described not only as visual-spatial motor deficiency in comparison to verbal abilities, but also as a syndrome characterised by social ineptitude (other polymictic traits, such as peculiar emotionality, obsessiveness, positive and negative activity anomalies, sensory (especially tactile) hypersensitivity make "NLD" even more "typically" aucorigic than derianism). So the most "typical" form of aucorigia is not associated with "derianity". It is "eneldian" syndrome, not "derian". It may bring serious difficulties in nonverbal learning, but it has not to do so. So "NLDers" with social ineptitude and obsessiveness are better examples of aucorigia than "classic" Aspies. Hyperlogism diminishes technical talents, but derianism may do something opposite (such as in the case of Temple Grandin, who has a gift of excellent visual thinking). A person with lowered technical abilities (but good verbal skills) may look more "klutzy" than someone who has poor language skills, but is has talents in such fields as IT or physics, especially when this person is a male.

I read about a person with classic derian aucorigia (girl) who had severely gifted IQ as a child and a person with hyperlogic (or hyperlogia-dominated) sort of aucorigia (boy) who was rather opposite to "gifted" as a few-years old child, who had not speech delay and had serious nonverbal learning disorder. Who is more aucorigic for me? SECOND individual. He is somewhat similar to Fritz V., "prototype" of Aspie, first child described by Hans Asperger, who started to talk when he was 10 months old and started to walk six months later and (probably) became a professor of astronomy later! "Little professor" became a big one... And Fritz V. had VERY HARD beginnings in education... Fascinating story.

Aucorigia may be in general more harmful for male individuals because they are supposed to be "strong" and not fearful. Aucorigia may often be associated with traits which clearly do not fit to the picture of an ideal boy or man. Women are generally supposed to be "weaker" than males, so aucorigia may tend to look less "striking" in female cases.

I would like clarification on this term "dyssemia". Can you or anyone knowledgeable explain this in more detail? What are the various similarities and differences between dyssemia and autism/aspergers?

Dyssemia is a difficulty with receptive and/or expressive nonverbal communication. The word comes from the Greek roots dys (difficulty) and semia (signal). The term was coined by psychologists Marshall Duke and Stephen Nowicki in their 1992 book, Helping The Child Who Doesn't Fit In, to decipher the hidden dimensions of social rejection. These difficulties go beyond problems with body language and motor skills. Dyssemic persons exhibit difficulties with the acquisition and use of nonverbal cues in interpersonal relationships. (...)

The social interactions of dyssemic adults tend to be immature and complex, even though their nonrelational reasoning ranges from normal to gifted. Dyssemic individuals exhibit varying degrees of social awkwardness and various types of nonverbal communication difficulties. Some might only have trouble with reception or expression alone, while others struggle with both. Severity fluctuates among individuals; difficulty does not necessarily equate to total inability, nor occur in all situations. Occasionally, expressive difficulty may only be a delay between the emotion and the facial muscles. Socially awkward adults suffering from nonverbal shortcomings often report feeling "a little out of it socially" or feeling "left out." (...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyssemia

Dyssemia is just "nonverbal communication impairment".

I am not so good in clarification here... For me dyssemia is not a learning disability. For me it is very "Aspergian" trait. I may think about naming all people with severe dyssemia as "Aspies" because of their social ineptitude (especially when they have above-average intellectual abilities), but it would not mean that someone meets criteria of Asperger's (or in fact have Asperger's syndrome) or is on one spectrum with people who suffer from childhood autism.

I suppose that "dyssemicity" is a "spectrum" and problems are associated with having (clearly) below-average nonverbal communication skills. When a person has above-average intelligence (especially verbal one) and problems in nonverbal communication, then there is marked contrast between intellectual and social skills. Dyssemia may be cause by different factros, not only by childhood autism and conditions related to it.

https://books.google.pl/books?id=aloPZljcC44C&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=%22social-emotional+learning+disability%22&source=bl&ots=qikAxx5JR-&sig=L8FcXoWZLdbLQ_q3V7XLu1weOGs&hl=pl&sa=X&ei=49AcVebMMJfYaoSWgdgL&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22social-emotional%20learning%20disability%22&f=false

Developmental Neuropsychiatry: Assessment, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Developmental Disorders, James C. Harris; chapter 7.5 ("Social-Emotional Learning Disablities"), pages 175 - 180

"Social-Emotional Learning Disablities" (SELDs) - people with them are described as not meeting criteria of Asperger's or autism and it was written that diagnoses of schizoid and schizotypal do not describe them fully. The term "social-emotional learning disability" was described in this book as emphasising the character of developmental disorder of children with SELDs and it was written that presentation of these disorders is not as severe as the presentation of pervasive developmental disorders from DSM-IV.

For me "SELDs" and "PDDs" from DSM-V have to be classified in one category of developmental disorders which is distinct from learning disabilities. "Social-emotional learning disability" looks for me as more accurate "counterpart" of my term "aucorigia" than "autism spectrum disorder". Learning disabilities has not to provoke social and emotional disorders, especially in childhood.