Female Autism

Post Reply New Topic

. Special interests are more typical of girls their age
More typical than what? Special interests I remember from childhood include stick insects, birds, botany and astronomy. I don't think it's typical for a 10 year old girl to be reading research papers on insects. Unfortunately that level of above average scientific ability didn't continue into adulthood or I'd be a professor or something by now.

As a teenager I did actually go through a phase of special interests being extreme versions of normal stuff as they centered around a series of bands. Not always the same ones anyone else my age liked!

Adult special interests have included stage sound, lighting and set production and live action roleplay. Again not really typical female interests. And bra fitting which sounds typical but I can tell you from that one that most women would be a lot better off if that was a widespread interest!

. More sociable/emotional/empathetic than autistic males and can more easily pass as NT
Unsure, everyone is different. I think sitting alone in silence when everyone else was chatting at school probably didn't pass as very normal? Neither was walking around on my own to pass the time at break times. As an adult, I don't know how well I pass.

. 'Less obvious' stims
I'm not quite sure what's a stim and what's just normal fidgeting. My obsessive tapping of any hard surface wasn't subtle. I will spin in chairs, but usually when nobody's looking.

My main special interests are The Kinks, the British 60s and The Olympics (mostly summer). The people in the city that I live know that I like The Kinks and a certain part of the 60s without even knowing who I am. A lot of people compare me to Mick Avory, whom I chose to be my role model because he's the Kink that I'm the most like. (It's a good thing he's a gentle soul 90% of the time). I also like to wear the red jacket and the frilly shirt because I also like the 60s (I do it because I'm a Kinks Fan....not to be pretty, and I don't dress like an old lady). People also know what I'm doing when I disappear for two weeks, every two years.

Actually, you can hyperfocus with some types of ADHD. I learned this from a friend with inattentive ADHD.

http://www.additudemag.com/adhd/article/612.html

Table 5 here is worth a look (and the entire paper): http://docs.autismresearchcentre.com/pa ... tal_AQ.pdf

There was actually a bigger gap between NT and ASD females than males. The lowest score for an ASD female appears to be 32 and the highest for NT is 33, compared to the highest NT male score at 37 and lowest ASD at 19. So much for it being more subtle in women. I've done the test it's based on (I think I got 36), I can believe women have better coping strategies as the test was very much about internalised thoughts rather than outward behaviour.

Well basically I have always passed as neurotypical by copying other people's subtle body language (though not understanding it)

People have often called me weird and "somehow different" but never really explained why they said that

As a kid I had alot of hyperfocus towards a few hobbies and hoarding of a few items and wanted to make friends with people that were just as passionate about these things but no one was, everyone just wanted to do boring small talk and white lie to each other.

I never understood social rules, but being a girl I was treated more harshly if I stepped out of line, so I put a good deal of effort into seaming "normal" but doing what I wanted when no one was watching.

I also had a really hard time with dressing and having conversations, I would always speak only if I was spoken to and the only time i had a lot of verbal fluency was when I'd talk about someone I liked but I didn't often realize other people didn't care or pretended to. I had a hard time having friend and only found it was possible when I was quite and agreed with everything other people would say, which made me seem like a pushover. Eventually It was too exhausting and I would disengage from people and go back to being a loner, not understanding why everyone was always so afraid to look like they were alone.

I always felt like a different species of human and alien but at the same time it seemed to me like I was normal and everyone else was really strange.

As I got older I got prettier and I'd often not be aware when guys would talk to me and flirt with me. I would be happy because I would think I made friends and then it would only turn out people thought I was "easy" because I was so friendly though I never did anything with anyone. Then there were alot of rumours at school that I had "done stuff", which was only people showing off to their buddies because it was so easy to have a conversation with me. In highschool I was so confused and didn't understand why everyone was so mean and only wanted something from me. I also didn't understand why this ruined reputation I got from being friendly, why it prevented other people wanting to be friends with me. It seemed like people only wanted to be friends with me "in secret" but would abandon me when other people were around that they would want to impress, or they would talk bad about me behind my back. I didn't understand all the social rules and they just seemed so stupid to me.

In my older years my weirdness did get me friends because people stopped caring about reputations and I was abit of a novelty because I was "different than other girls". I geuss this was because I would never make small talk and go straight to the interesting conversations. It got annoying though, because alot of times when I was with people and they were bored they would prompt me to talk and go into a monologue, and sometimes I wished other people did this too but they were only comfortable "small talking" with me. I had a hard time getting people talking.

One time I met a girl that was alot like me. We would each have turns doing monologues and interrupt each other and going into random strings of conversation. Alot of people were annoyed by us and didn't understand how we got along so well, but I liked it because it was unpredictable and never a dull moment. It did get annoying sometimes, when she interrupted something REALLY important and i forgot what it was. But it was less annoying than having conversations with normies that would always say the most menial s**t.

I'm sorry but, you are wrong about me. I was not misdiagnosed, Norny. and to the other guy who said "maybe she shouldn't have been diagnosed because she can function enough" Ok, would you like to see my Adaptive Functioning report?? Would you like to see a film reel of my entire adult life's daily struggles?? You'd backtrack that one pretty quickly if so. Bright people can still have profound cognitive impairments. You guys are "aspies" right? So, shouldn't you know??

I was diagnosed after a neuropsychologist watched childhood footage, which included compulsive stims actually, among other things. I learned to cope, and I'm still learning about autism. I have very debilitating autism traits such as planning and adjustment, overload and needing to shut down, inertia, social communication ie. i communicate too forwardly so been through hell getting help with my health w/doctors (even though that works ok when you're advocating for others, it works against me when I'm advocating for myself) I also have some nonverbal learning disorder issues, and complex PTSD, problems misreading people, etc. It was all due to not getting help.

We did several learning tests on me to find ADD and autism related disabilities as well as nonverbal learning disorder. I have traits that affect, and have always affected, my day to day functioning and made it hard to work. I certainly tried working and pulled a "quit before you fail" on it many times over. I'd arrive home in near meltdown states and burst into tears or go get some drinks at the store because I was so overloaded I had to "wash it away" and plus, I have another physical condition long undiagnosed also, so I was in immense pain. The double whammy pushed me to abuse alcohol as a poor coping for many years, and I further messed myself up in that process. It hurts to think I hurt myself that way, but I was desperate. There's a book written on this subject called "aspergers and alcohol drinking to cope" which I related with to a tee, brought me to tears. I am a survivor of that and so much more - so how dare you presume that I'm not autistic or "too mild to need help" - are you kidding? I am internally twice my age due to not getting the help I needed for years, and holding stress in/poor coping.

People would constantly say and wonder "oh you have these wonderful talents/special skills and you're so bright ... why oh why can't you get your sh*t together??" .. well, that's why! Now I'm sick with this awful complex health crap, this ehlers-danlos syndrome stuff which I apparently was also born with (makes me question genetics as a whole) so, now I'm really shot and usually in bed. I'm waiting to see if help will come but that's a whole other story and I won't get into it here. All I'll say is, this is not the life I ever imagined I'd be living at age 30, and it's because I did not get diagnosed and helped ON TIME. With either the autism or the EDS.

But I don't like to engage often in the aspie community because I'm now traumatized by this kind of thing, which has happened before and worse. How sad is that. I'm put off by all this crap...this judging and gossiping of each other, it's not ok. Everyone's different. Many of us have challenges due to Complex PTSD, which presents differently in different people, which results in mental health co morbids that include the appearance of BPD, bipolar, OCD, neuroses, even dissociative identity and even pseudo-narcissistic features (I said features, not the PD - learn to tell the difference guys, there IS a difference!) and further food for though, the pseudo-narcissistc features could look that way, merely as a result of developmentally delayed use of expressive language, language structure and gesturing. Paired with a paradox of verbosity, one could look at it subjectively as narcissistic traits.

For example, I don't consciously notice that I may say "my" a lot and "I" a lot - so does a 10 year old. My adaptive functioning pegs me at about 10-12 in my application of expressive language, even though my IQ itself is high. Even so, I am very young in areas of adaptive and emotional functioning, as well as cognition. Take that into consideration, and in fact it's a fair argument against malignant, intentional narcissism because it's innocent and come by honestly! Pair it with trying to be understood and enthusiastic self expression, and your throwing the tomatoes at a fragile, scarred people who badly needed help, didn't get it, and are now trying to self-actualize to be understood and to raise awareness. It's so awful!

We shouldn't judge. People are already hurting and scarred, and sometimes chronically ill, due to NT/familial abuses. So why the f*ck are we continuing on the cycle and abusing within our own community? I have had others come to me devastated after being hurt by our own community, even accused of "not being autistic" just because they're not autistic in the way YOU are - and it makes me so sad. It is so disappointing. It makes me so upset, how trolly and judgey many of the aspies have become within each other. Some sub-communities are better than others for sure, and I look for the ones that are safe, but I have become wary and that is sad. This is why I feel like a lone wolf at this point, other than my few fellow aspie friends and smaller groups whom I trust.

The bottom line is: Its' is sad that I have to be afraid of my own community, when I am already scarred, fragile, and trying to heal - and I am not the only one. To be honest, have you ever considered that the ones most awkward but most precociously covering it up may be more profoundly on the spectrum than you may be? and yet you're telling them that they're not and some. You're picking on them. Have you every considered that they look like they are faking BECAUSE it's part of their awkwardness itself? It could be! If you don't notice those details because you can't recognize them, as some of us can't, that's your deal. You should look a little deeper, a little harder...and pick on someone you're own size.

I wrote a blog about that called "cynical analytical critical" to describe mild aspies who pick on the more HFA people who are able to speak really well, though it's only precociously applied. I have, in my book (which was technically edited by someone more proficient than me) called this type of person a "Precocious" which, forgive me for saying, is kind of like a more subtle "idiot savant" type. I would identify with being a "precocious" type myself.

Then you got many in the aspie community picking on this type of person too often - they're actually accusing them of being fakers and PD pathologies, and even narcies - when actually, they're presenting that way because they may be more profoundly on the spectrum than the "on the border of aspie phenotype" or even clinically, though mildly but stereotypical (ie. dry, critical, male or bitchy tomboy bully female antisocial hacker-troll chick type.)

It's called "cocktail speech", the clever parroting with a semi-lack of awareness as to what or how one is really saying or meaning something. It can sound pedantic or grandiose. I'm doing some of it now because I'm trying to communicate concepts that I see in picture patterns first, before I try to convert and "translate" it, albeit that translation sounds slightly ESL-student-ish." So, I may have delivered accidentally in the wrong context - the further along on the spectrum the more cocktail speech that will happen, and the more accidental mis-firing of what was really meant will happen. I have to try really hard to speak normally, or I just talk in metaphors and riddles. With my illness this has kind of gotten worse, making it a nightmare to try and communicate with Drs. I now have support workers attempting to help me with this.

Sorry to give you "critical mildly clinical/phenotypes" your own medicine by saying "well maybe you're not profoundly autistic enough" - and calling some of you out for being mean - but how do you like having your autism minimized? I think there's more to this than you realize.

I feel my writings often more telling of my ASD than anything else. Again, my mother abused me and forced me to act differently, and then the school system did it. I had it expected of me. So I became extremely good at it, and good at pretending I understood when I was completely lost. Good at sounding like I knew what I was talking about when I didn't. But it was all for survival. I was forced to cleverly think my way through situations, having to basically be forced to apply tactics of manipulation, only to modify my environment and for my safety, and not out of map intent. I had no choice but then, the ways I picked up how to be get me accused of being some sort of manipulative sinister personality disordered pathological witch? Dude. That is so not fair - and I will not accept it anymore. I am a good person, but I also have the right to love myself and express without being judged.

My identity was split between good and bad girl s**t. So that messed me up and I've been spending my whole life trying to contend with it. I will not have this continually be thwarted by bullying from my own community and from cruel trolly types who want to sit there and try to throw dirt into my wounds. I have childhood footage to prove my autism, which you can see people around me either idealizing me in an unhelpful way (oh, isn't she so cute, clever and quirky! she's so bright and sweet, oh heeeheehee ! she doesn't need any help though! ) ... Or, even more often, they're reprimanding me for some apparent "character defect" that I have due to my disabilities, and of course ignoring the notion that it might be a disability I can't help.

When I was a teen/young woman I went through hell. I survived through crazy things, due to being naively used and abused. I was practically kidnapped psychologically, by creeps who knew I was vulnerable. I made it through but not unscarred. So, you have a lot of nerve to assume that you know me, what I go through, and my day to day life. It is really sad that so many aspies have to be so judgemental and critical of those coming out to try and share. Everyone's different in their experience. This isn't a freaking contest is it? Love thy neighbour. Sometimes I wonder if this community needs 12 step program or something. I went through 12 step after having to let go of a self medicating alcohol problem that got really serious. It helped me with some of the thinking i see as destructive in the community.

You say I'm "Misinformed" ? No - just still learning. My reading tolerance is a little skewed due to my NLD and ADD, I do better with visuals and certain writing styles. I still have to work on that one. I may not have articulated the info in the way I intended to, and I may not have at that time bore a deep enough understanding about my own affect, or about autism. Just because you have a condition doesn't mean you automatically are able to be aware of all that's going on because of it. Ironically, what you call "misinformed" could be then due to my expression of autism. Also, that "Stimming" video is old, too.

When autism gets buried, it takes awhile to understand whats' going on within yourself and your reactions to your environment. Women with autism are so badly picked on, it's horrible. We're picked on by the NT populace and systems most especially, by other women (sometimes sadly, who are also aspies "gone Maleficent") and by aspie men who go "oh she just has another mental health issue, she's not autistic like I am." Yeah, that's because we're female. The female brain often copes differently. Layers that upstage happen; Mental health, as well as physical health, co-morbids due to the trauma and pressure of having to cope and perform so much can often upstage the autism in women. Yale is doing a study to try and uncover and define some of this. Women can mask autism even on the moderate, beyond milder, scale. That's what I did, and yet you're saying I'm not severe enough. People who say that don't know me, my friends and family would beg to differ and to tell you that Rosie in her personal life is clearly autistic.

Anyways, it's all so disappointing and frustrating. Again, this is why I have to be wary in my own community. I have a physical health condition too, which in the past year I've unfortunately become profoundly affected by. When you get really sick you realize how little tolerance you need to have for painstaking BS. Sometimes I honestly feel safer in the Ehlers-Danlos community, sorry to say. I'll end this with a "whoops, I wasted too much of my precious "forks" (mental energy) caring about this matter and becoming emotionally charged over it." Time to "time out."

Very thoughtful post, thank you. The invalidation stuff you describe (accurately) within peer groups on the spectrum sometimes strikes me as far far more damaging to the overall self-worth of autistic people than invalidations from NTs who are generally ignorant of the broad variety of ASD characteristics.

However some of the peer to peer ASD abuse stuff is driven by internalised oppression, and has to be seen in that context sometimes; when people realise this, and know better, they tend to do better. I think it's really important that ASD people understand dynamics and concepts such as internalised oppression, as part of the rocky and complex road to developing self-awareness to a level where the entire personal past can be re-evaluated from a perspective of wider understanding, so that the 'survivor' can accurately name what was really experienced, and consider any ongoing unhealed impacts that continue to undermine the self in some way.. otherwise people just tend to keep abusing others in the ways that they were abused, in an endless cycle of perpetuated, raw and unhealed pain..

Rosie the Teaflower,

You're post was very heartfelt and I found it to be touching. You certainly spoke to a lot of issues I dealt with growing up- such issues that have me questioning how well functioning I really even am.
The abuse mention hits home as well. I think female aspies are particularly vulnerable. Women are a vulnerable population for abuse but aspie women who don't understand things.... oh boy then you just are gluten for punishment. I find it so sad how horribly I've seen some aspie women treated just because people can. It's very sick.

Okay last post, it does also remind me of this NYT article I read that trauma makes people both more cold-hearted and empathetic at the same time. It makes them generally more empathetic to people who have undergone traumas different from their own, but also very cold and meanspirited to people that experienced similar traumas with people that experienced the same type of trauma getting the least sympathy. Like a gradient.

"'big stims' (i.e. spinning on her chair) for when she listens to music, and that made me want to throw up, because it's something everybody does."

huh? nope, I don't. I don't know anyone who does that at all.

Anyone with a hint of common sense would be able to figure out that autism manifests differently from individual to individual. The autistic community is not a monolithic entity.. We are not like tubifex worms where we all act in uniformity and have the same traits. Just because someone doesn't have YOUR traits doesn't make them any less autistic.

Norny, I am sorry to say this, but your post absolutely stinks of ignorance. (And I mean that in a metaphorical sense not literal).