sociopath vrs aspies

Post Reply New Topic

Actually they can lie to themselves quite easily: some psychopaths and sociopaths are also narcissists with extremely unrealistic overblown ideas of their own abilities and importance, and are actually really insecure but cannot accept their own insecurity and so don't acknowledge it consciously.

And when I said they have no built in mechanism for stopping them from doing harm to others, I meant they literally do not have an emotional mechanism like 99% of the rest of us have that make us feel negative things (shame, unhappiness, discomfort) when we harm others or do something that we know is wrong. They cognitively understand the difference between right and wrong and can make calculated decisions, but there will be no emotional repercussions for them when they do what they know is wrong like happens for the majority of people who are not without conscience.

ETA: some of the descriptions you people are providing of what you think sociopathy/psychopathology are makes it sound like you actually might admire these people, which is worrisome, to say the least. I hope I am misreading this.

I don't like this comparison so much.

I made an unspoken ceteris paribus assumption. I've so far considered narcissism a separate topic, as the topic is difficult enough as it is.


Yes, I know that, but that only means that appeals to emotions should not be bothered with when dealing with them.


No, I don't admire them. I just see no need to point out that they are detestable, as most posts on this thread do that already, so it would be redundant. I'm trying to provide information that can be actually useful.

The conclusion one should come to when studying the reality of psychopaths and sociopaths is not that they are detestable--it's that they are dangerous. There is a very important distinction to be made there. It's not about judgement, it's about being practical and keeping the community safe.

That is obvious.

I agree with you...to a point.
I lived with a sociopath for 3-1/2 years as a teen (not my choice.)
This boy had plenty of friends.
But let me ask you...do you see the dark side? Does your psychopathic friend let you see how he is mistreating others?
The friends my sociopathic "relative" had never saw what he was really like.
That's the thing about these pathological liars, which makes up part of the definition of who they are.
They are able to construct such walls that people are fooled into thinking they are telling the truth and giving the complete picture.
And, yes, they are often *brilliant* individuals. How else can they keep track of all their lies, what they said to whom, etc.

Most people drop a friend when that friend is no longer useful or wanted. So, I can't say that psychopaths and sociopaths are worse than other people in that regard. But I will say watch out and make sure that you are not being incorporated into a plan that is hurting someone else.

I posted these links in the other thread on sociopathy here on WP, but I might as well post them again.
I found these extremely helpful, and both very much describe the person who I lived with, and the tactics he used.

I have also known two other people I suspect are sociopaths.
The lies, the lies, the lies. And the manipulation. Wow.
The ability to fool so many.
They really are like magicians in this way. They create a world of illusion for the people they are tricking.

http://www.decision-making-confidence.c ... ptoms.html

http://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empa ... t-yourself

Apparently not to you, but that has been my entire point with everything I have said on this thread. They are dangerous and not to be trusted, because they have absolutely no reason or motivation to ever be trustworthy or decent to anyone if it doesn't serve themselves directly.

I've seen the "dark side" as it were, another old psychopathic friend from school is currently in prison. Her late husband (a neuraltypical) molested their twin daughters, when she discovered this, she anally raped with a sharp metal object (presumably a knife) killing him in the process. She felt no guilt or remorse at what she had done, in fact she genuinely believed that she was justified in her actions. She had considered killing her children and then herself, but in that moment, she hesitated, and for the first time in her entire life, she cried real tears, she didn't want her daughters to die. She called another psychopathic friend, and they talked things through. She turned herself in, admitted to everything, and the news rattled down the psychopathic grapevine until my friend learned about it, and she told me.

Do I honestly believe that my friend would be capable of this if someone were to harm her children? Yes, yes I do.



She tends to be quite open (and vocal) about her dispassionate views of society, and her feelings about the people in her life. She told me that she never truly knew what love was until her daughters came along.

Her husband who is also a psychopath, is a completely different story altogether. He's an independent psychopath, one who went through mainstream education system, and so lacks the mental conditioning, empathy training, and moral code that she had been taught at the school for gifted children. In public, he's upstanding businessman, a loving husband, and a model father. In private... Well, lets just say that he really tests the limits of my idealistic beliefs. Unlike her, he is very secretive about his mental condition, he also hates the fact that I know about it. I think he'd kill me if he thought he could get away with it, but he knows that he can't.



There's actually a great deal of difference between a psychopath, and a sociopath.



I disagree. Psychopaths aren't stupid, they, like normal people, only lie when it is beneficial to do so.

As opposed to those of us with Autism, who can often have great difficult telling the simplest of lies.



I agree. Most people do drop their friends when they a no longer useful. In fact, the only people I know that try to prolong friendships after they've stopped being mutually beneficial, is people with Autism. Though I believe that they can be forgiven for trying to prolong a dead relationship, when one considers that they tend to have so few friendships, that even having a hollow dead relationship is better than no relationship at all.

Friendships aren't static, but active living things that need tender loving care on a regular basis.



I see...

i was engaged to a sociopath for three years. the idea that anyone, much less an aspie, could stay ahead of someone free of the burden of conscience is far-fetched. i'm lucky i got out of that alive.

Believe me, I understand.

Those with Asperger's have difficulties with cognitive empathy, the ability to imagine what another may be feeling. They do not typically have difficulty with emotional empathy, which is being able to feel another's pain or emotions when perceiving them. These types of empathy involve different processes in the brain. People with Asperger's usually feel a wide range of emotions and feel sympathy like neurotypicals.

A sociopath typically has superior cognitive empathy. They quite clearly understand and imagine how another person may be feeling or thinking. They use this ability to manipulate others. They, however, do not care about others feelings or feel emotional empathy in most cases. In fact, they tend to have emotions that are blunted. They aren't able to experience the same degree or variety of emotions as neurotypicals. They usually enjoy power and manipulation. Most aren't criminals, however.

There is a huge difference between sociopaths and aspies. The only similarities I can see are the general ability to empathize and the way they may be perceived by others. Except that sociopaths can be quite charming and many people are unaware of how cold they really are.

A lot of NTs find things like Asperger's, depression, anxiety, bipolar, and loads of other things like that difficult to imagine. Some people have no idea how I feel in crowded places, just because they don't worry about crowds. And if you say "NTs feel empathy better if they've experienced it themselves", that may be true, but then the same goes to Aspies too, so it's an equality really. It's just that are more NTs than Aspies/other non-NTs, so it's easier for everyone to say that it's us Aspies or other non-NTs who lack empathy.

The difference in charm is a *huge* difference that should be obvious to most people. Sociopaths have to look put together in order to impress people, and later manipulate them. Most people on the spectrum that I know are not suave enough to be winsome. Sociopaths are effective because they get people to believe them. The awkwardness of most people on the spectrum, instead, often causes people to have a negative view. I do not understand how people mix these up!

I can remember when I was first learning about AS through my mother, she was telling me how I might be hurting peoples feelings and not care if they are hurt or not when they say. Then Cruella De Vil popped in my head because she is so mean and does rude things so it made me wonder does that mean she has AS. I was talking to my school counselor about it and I asked what is the difference between a normal person doing it and someone with Asperger's and he told me they just choose to do it, they know and are aware but they just choose to not care, someone with Asperger's isn't making that choice because they do not know, they are not aware. Yes they both may look the same on the outside but when you look on the inside and behind their intentions, they are both totally different but I don't think it changes anything for some people because all they care is the behavior and if it hurts them, that is all they care, they don't care for the reason behind it. I think some people are more thinned skin than others.

People have described Cruella as being a sociopath so that is why I mentioned her even though she is fictional. But I am sure there are people like her except except they are not obsessed with fur and into killing animals and stealing puppies.

Where did I imply that they should be trusted? Tell me, because if I did, it is a significant miscommunication on my part.


That's a pretty big if right there.

One other thing, why would you consider conscience to be so significant in protecting you from others? After all, regret comes after the deed.