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B19
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03 Jun 2016, 8:54 pm

There could be a skerrick of truth in the diagnosis as better-than-no-identity at all concept, for a few, though I wouldn't stretch it very far.. "nature abhors a vacuum" comes to mind though.

Identity is complex and not fixed - experiences over the life span impact on it as well as many other factors. However if you are very young and very lost and very alone and trying to make sense of things in terms of identity, where nothing seems to make much sense, stumbling on a label that seems to fit well can provide a considerable albeit perhaps temporary comfort.



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03 Jun 2016, 9:01 pm

I don't think you can separate it because to separate it you have to remove it from yourself with you can't. Does it totally define me? I don't think so but it is part of me.



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04 Jun 2016, 4:56 am

Ettina wrote:

So it's not at all that I lacked identity. It's just that a lot of things I thought were 'just me' turned out to be [because of my] autistic traits. Well, guess what? Just because they're autistic traits doesn't mean they're not me!
I agree. I added my 2 cents into the quote to make it say what I personally feel since it is just very slightly narrower in meaning than the original quotation. That is why I have written what I did in the [].

Ettina wrote:
Even my sexual orientation (which I only realized post-diagnosis) is affected by autism - autistic women are less likely than NT women to be heterosexual. Asexuality especially is overrepresented on the autism spectrum. And most LGTB people have no hesitation in saying their orientation is part of their identity. In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.
I believe mine is also. I am heterosexual but have very strong asexual tendencies and really prefer to be asexual.


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04 Jun 2016, 5:10 am

Ettina wrote:
In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.
Please forgive my ignorance but I don't understand how a gay person can be homophobic.


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04 Jun 2016, 10:41 am

skibum wrote:
Ettina wrote:
In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.
Please forgive my ignorance but I don't understand how a gay person can be homophobic.


Being gay is not a choice, it's how the person is wired.

If they were raised to think being gay is wrong, and then hit puberty and start feeling attracted to the same sex, this doesn't always make the person stop thinking that being gay is wrong. Some of them delude themselves that they're not feeling attraction when they are, and others identify it as a problem that they need to cure or overcome in some way.

I was referring to the people who identify being gay as a problem they need to overcome. They see it as something that's bad and they need to get rid of it or at least lessen the impact it has on their life. Basically they see being gay as a disease or curse rather than an identity, because to think that something they hate so much is part of their identity is intolerable.

Of course any homophobic gay person will be very unhappy until they stop being homophobic. But many don't see the homophobia as a problem - it's the fact that they aren't straight that's the problem.



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04 Jun 2016, 1:03 pm

Oh, I understand now. Thank you for explaining it.


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04 Jun 2016, 2:19 pm

lisa_simpson wrote:

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
I never really felt that. I saw my my diagnoses as an explanation but not for my personality traits but actually my impairments and explanation for things I wasn't aware of or didn't understand. Like why making friends was such a hard thing, why did people keep ostracizing me, why can't I learn like the other kids, why does my dad keep telling me to look people in the eye. Why can't I remember things immediately after people tell Me things. It was never a matter of personality. Some things were additional like so that's why i have such a good photographic memory, so that's why I feel bad for inanimate objects.

Why do you focus so much on your impairments? You may have some social difficulties, but it's just because everybody's different. I'm glad you mentioned your photographic memory. That shows your autism also explains you have a great ability, a gift, that not many people have.
I think I have some kind of photographic memory, too. When I study for an exam, I take like photographs of the pages in my brain, and then, in the exam, it's almost as if I were cheating, because it's as if I could see the pages of the book and see some of the things that were written, where in the page they were written, etc. Is this a normal thing?.


Because autism largely affects me in a negative way. I can acknowledge the positives but the bad outway the good. Photographic memory is nice but I lack the ability to remember spoken words clearly, even 5 seconds after being told something. I have an intense focus but it's too intense and people get mad at me for neglecting important tasks because I was too focused in another topic. It's very frustrating.

I don't know a whole lot about photographic member, mine isn't perfect, like I can see a page in a book but the words are blurry and I can't read them. My photographic memory works best with remembering movies and episodes, I watched deadpool a total of 3 times and I can replay the entire movie in my head, I can't remember the script unfortunately but still mildly impresive


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04 Jun 2016, 4:03 pm

skibum wrote:
Ettina wrote:
In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.
Please forgive my ignorance but I don't understand how a gay person can be homophobic.



It's called overcompensation. They hate themselves so much, they think being gay is wrong for everyone so they are a homophobic. My ex boyfriend was the same way and now he came out as trans is a woman now and also claims to be bisexual mostly lesbian. It's like how some autistic people hate themselves they go around telling all the other autistic people how autism is a disease and they need to be cured and how bad it is to be autistic and they feel very negative about autistic people and they can't stand to be around them or around anyone who remind them of themselves.


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04 Jun 2016, 4:07 pm

League_Girl wrote:
skibum wrote:
Ettina wrote:
In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.
Please forgive my ignorance but I don't understand how a gay person can be homophobic.



It's called overcompensation. They hate themselves so much, they think being gay is wrong for everyone so they are a homophobic. My ex boyfriend was the same way and now he came out as trans is a woman now and also claims to be bisexual mostly lesbian. It's like how some autistic people hate themselves they go around telling all the other autistic people how autism is a disease and they need to be cured and how bad it is to be autistic and they feel very negative about autistic people and they can't stand to be around them or around anyone who remind them of themselves.
Wow, that is very sad. Thank you for explaining that to me.


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04 Jun 2016, 4:09 pm

lisa_simpson wrote:
skibum wrote:
When I was a pre-teen, I did not know or believe that I was a real human being.

Same thing here! I was so constantly bullied until I was 18, that I just thought I was like of another species. I thought there may be something wrong with me and that I was forced to be subdued to everyone.



I think Asperger's explain why I was also singled out and rejected and picked on and why kids thoughts I was mean or weird. I never ever thought I wasn't human, I just believed I was put on this planet for people to pick on and I thought everyone with the same name as me all get picked on. I didn't really know I was that different. I knew I had more going on because there were other kids in my school who also had speech issues and none of them got picked up and singled out and treated different so I knew it wasn't due to my own speech.


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04 Jun 2016, 4:12 pm

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
lisa_simpson wrote:

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
I never really felt that. I saw my my diagnoses as an explanation but not for my personality traits but actually my impairments and explanation for things I wasn't aware of or didn't understand. Like why making friends was such a hard thing, why did people keep ostracizing me, why can't I learn like the other kids, why does my dad keep telling me to look people in the eye. Why can't I remember things immediately after people tell Me things. It was never a matter of personality. Some things were additional like so that's why i have such a good photographic memory, so that's why I feel bad for inanimate objects.

Why do you focus so much on your impairments? You may have some social difficulties, but it's just because everybody's different. I'm glad you mentioned your photographic memory. That shows your autism also explains you have a great ability, a gift, that not many people have.
I think I have some kind of photographic memory, too. When I study for an exam, I take like photographs of the pages in my brain, and then, in the exam, it's almost as if I were cheating, because it's as if I could see the pages of the book and see some of the things that were written, where in the page they were written, etc. Is this a normal thing?.


Because autism largely affects me in a negative way. I can acknowledge the positives but the bad outway the good. Photographic memory is nice but I lack the ability to remember spoken words clearly, even 5 seconds after being told something. I have an intense focus but it's too intense and people get mad at me for neglecting important tasks because I was too focused in another topic. It's very frustrating.

I don't know a whole lot about photographic member, mine isn't perfect, like I can see a page in a book but the words are blurry and I can't read them. My photographic memory works best with remembering movies and episodes, I watched deadpool a total of 3 times and I can replay the entire movie in my head, I can't remember the script unfortunately but still mildly impresive
From reading several of your posts, I am seeing that you are visually very strong but have trouble with language, speaking, reading etc. Do you find that it is difficult for you to read and comprehend what is written here at WP sometimes? Like does it take you a while to read and understand the posts? Would it be easier for you if written things came with illustrations to help you process what the written text is saying? I will often form mental images like movies or photographs in my mind when I read or hear something. Often times, if I cannot make a mental photo of the thing, I can't understand it, it makes no sense to me. Do you find that this is the same with you?


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04 Jun 2016, 4:14 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I thought everyone with the same name as me all get picked on. .
That is really interesting. I am actually fascinated by this train of thought and wonder how many other children think something like this.


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04 Jun 2016, 5:20 pm

Ettina wrote:
And most LGTB people have no hesitation in saying their orientation is part of their identity. In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.

Exactly! I'm heterosexual, but I think we, as autistics, should learn from the LGTB group, and defend that autism is just a different type of personality (even though it's somewhat determined by genes) and not something to be changed or "cured".

skibum wrote:
Please forgive my ignorance but I don't understand how a gay person can be homophobic.

As far as I know, Ricky Martin was a homophobic gay until he was brave enough to come out of the closet.

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
I don't know a whole lot about photographic member, mine isn't perfect, like I can see a page in a book but the words are blurry and I can't read them. My photographic memory works best with remembering movies and episodes, I watched deadpool a total of 3 times and I can replay the entire movie in my head, I can't remember the script unfortunately but still mildly impresive

I can't read the words in the page either (unless they're very big titles), but I remember the colors and the drawings. It's really cool that you can replay an entire movie in your head after watching it just three times. I need like 7 times to rememer only part of the script :lol: (I find it easier to remember the script)

League_Girl wrote:
I think Asperger's explain why I was also singled out and rejected and picked on and why kids thoughts I was mean or weird. I never ever thought I wasn't human, I just believed I was put on this planet for people to pick on and I thought everyone with the same name as me all get picked on. I didn't really know I was that different. I knew I had more going on because there were other kids in my school who also had speech issues and none of them got picked up and singled out and treated different so I knew it wasn't due to my own speech.

I feel you on that! I also believed I was put on this planet for people to pick on, even though I knew I pertained to the homo sapiens species, but I didn't understand why people found me so weird.
The name thing is too cute! I didn't have the possibility of thinking that, because my best friend at school had the same as me, and she wasn't picked on at all.
I thought that people were jealous of me because I always got really good marks. But I had a classmate at high school who had way better marks than me and she wasn't bullied, so I knew there had to be something wrong with me.

skibum wrote:
From reading several of your posts, I am seeing that you are visually very strong but have trouble with language, speaking, reading etc. Do you find that it is difficult for you to read and comprehend what is written here at WP sometimes? Like does it take you a while to read and understand the posts? Would it be easier for you if written things came with illustrations to help you process what the written text is saying? I will often form mental images like movies or photographs in my mind when I read or hear something. Often times, if I cannot make a mental photo of the thing, I can't understand it, it makes no sense to me. Do you find that this is the same with you?

No, I'm not at all visually strong. On the contrary, I'm much better at language (but I have trouble at speaking socially).
Sometimes, I have to take my time to read reaaaally long posts, but it may be just because I'm lazy! :P


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04 Jun 2016, 5:31 pm

I am sorry Lisa, I must have not done the quotes right. I meant that post asking about being visually strong to be for Zombie Bride. But I was glad to read your response. :D


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04 Jun 2016, 5:39 pm

skibum wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
lisa_simpson wrote:

ZombieBrideXD wrote:
I never really felt that. I saw my my diagnoses as an explanation but not for my personality traits but actually my impairments and explanation for things I wasn't aware of or didn't understand. Like why making friends was such a hard thing, why did people keep ostracizing me, why can't I learn like the other kids, why does my dad keep telling me to look people in the eye. Why can't I remember things immediately after people tell Me things. It was never a matter of personality. Some things were additional like so that's why i have such a good photographic memory, so that's why I feel bad for inanimate objects.

Why do you focus so much on your impairments? You may have some social difficulties, but it's just because everybody's different. I'm glad you mentioned your photographic memory. That shows your autism also explains you have a great ability, a gift, that not many people have.
I think I have some kind of photographic memory, too. When I study for an exam, I take like photographs of the pages in my brain, and then, in the exam, it's almost as if I were cheating, because it's as if I could see the pages of the book and see some of the things that were written, where in the page they were written, etc. Is this a normal thing?.


Because autism largely affects me in a negative way. I can acknowledge the positives but the bad outway the good. Photographic memory is nice but I lack the ability to remember spoken words clearly, even 5 seconds after being told something. I have an intense focus but it's too intense and people get mad at me for neglecting important tasks because I was too focused in another topic. It's very frustrating.

I don't know a whole lot about photographic member, mine isn't perfect, like I can see a page in a book but the words are blurry and I can't read them. My photographic memory works best with remembering movies and episodes, I watched deadpool a total of 3 times and I can replay the entire movie in my head, I can't remember the script unfortunately but still mildly impresive
From reading several of your posts, I am seeing that you are visually very strong but have trouble with language, speaking, reading etc. Do you find that it is difficult for you to read and comprehend what is written here at WP sometimes? Like does it take you a while to read and understand the posts? Would it be easier for you if written things came with illustrations to help you process what the written text is saying? I will often form mental images like movies or photographs in my mind when I read or hear something. Often times, if I cannot make a mental photo of the thing, I can't understand it, it makes no sense to me. Do you find that this is the same with you?



Yes, I cannot read the longer paragraphs or even posts with multiple paragraphs. I usually have to visually process certain things, I misread things frequently and reply and only realize after reading other people's replies that I didn't understand the OP. I also have difficulty spelling and forming a sentence. It would definitely be easier if there were illustrations or pictures with it.


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04 Jun 2016, 5:40 pm

Ettina wrote:
ZombieBrideXD wrote:
I'm really really REALLY trying not to offend anyone but I just had an epiphany.

What I'm seeing and how I'm interpreting it is; the people who are seeing autism as their personality and identity, seem to be clinging to the diagnoses BECAUSE they had a lack of an identity before either 1. Discovering autism or 2. Being diagnosed.

That's just what I'm seeing, call me wrong and whatever but this is how I see it,


That doesn't fit me at all.

Long before I knew I was autistic, I had a clear sense of my identity. It's just that a lot of identifying features I have are autism-related.

Here is probably how I'd have described myself pre-discovery (not pre-diagnosis because I suspected autism long before my diagnosis), and how that relates to autism:

I like strange things (intense unusual interests)
I'm weird and nonconformist (lack of innate desire to fit in, plus poor social skills)
I'm creative (unrelated to autism)
I'm smart (partly unrelated, but some of this self perception was related to strengths that are part of autistic skill scatter)
I'm disorganized (executive dysfunction)
I'm honest (dislike of lying due to literalism)
I have a strange sense of humor (turns out a lot of autistic people have a similar sense of humor to me)
I feel passionate about human rights (mostly due to a feminist mother rather than autism, but growing up as an outsider probably intensified this)
I'm a loner (reduced social motivation, plus defense against bullying)

So it's not at all that I lacked identity. It's just that a lot of things I thought were 'just me' turned out to be autistic traits. Well, guess what? Just because they're autistic traits doesn't mean they're not me!

Even my sexual orientation (which I only realized post-diagnosis) is affected by autism - autistic women are less likely than NT women to be heterosexual. Asexuality especially is overrepresented on the autism spectrum. And most LGTB people have no hesitation in saying their orientation is part of their identity. In fact the only people I've seen try to argue orientation is separate from identity have been homophobic gays.
Thank you for this very good post, Ettina! Swap human rights with animal rights, add animal lover, and this is very much like how I'd describe myself. I never lacked a sense of self, it's just that so much of it seems to be tied with Aspergers, including loving animals, liking planes, trains, boats and cars, and loving Pokemon. Creative, free spirit, lone wolf and non-conformist are all words I have rightfully used about myself.


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