Is it a part of YOU?

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IIR, increased conductivity in the context of neurons means autistics' neurons have less or less complete myelenation/insulation, so the charge tends to "leak" (I assume as ions?). Not sure if the consequence is for neurons to have a lower potential (having lost ions) and thus not propagate a signal as well, or if it means that the charge that leaks from one lowers the threshold on nearby neurons when it seeps past their myelenation and raises their potential. Or something else altogether?

Wow, a lot of responses in here since I was last able to post! I'll respond to some of it that particularly piqued my interest.

What I've seen on this forum does suggest that. I've talked about it a bit with you and zykdz before. It's interesting to note that Ezra and I were both diagnosed young and seem to have the same perspective on this. I'd need to think about why that is. You gave me some ideas here:



That is a big difference. I think that discovering the “why” behind things you've had going on your whole life and identify as a key to who you are might make them more personal. To me, they've never been; so I don't think of them as any more than symptoms.



This is equally true for me, but who I could have been is a different matter than who I am.



That last sentence is very important in understanding my feelings on this. To me, the latter is who I am. That is a part of me. In my view, the wiring is merely the mechanism that houses it.

It does sometimes feel foreign to me. It feels constraining, oppressive. I feel fettered by it, and often resent it. I sometimes think of it as the devil on my shoulder.

I don't remember it ever being the angel on the other shoulder. Maybe I don't want to.



On the other hand... I feel like I was coddled as a result of my autism being known, and I wish people had pushed me to do more. I feel like I'd be better off for it now.



It's wonderful that this has helped you!

For my part, I do view them as limitations. I've had both NT and other autistic people try to persuade me to see them as differences instead. I can only guess as to why, but trying to do that made me feel terrible about myself and my life. It might be related to the fact that I find that autism is a limitation for me even when I'm by myself... even when I'm not interacting with NTs.

I can tell you that a better balance between the way I, and others like me, were treated as children and people today needs to be found. We seem to have swung from one extreme to another. I see way too much helicopter parenting that I feel prevents young people from really reaching their potential. The biggest differences I have seen between the young people today (so called millennials) and us old farts (Boomers) is that the new generation is risk adverse because of this. It is a recognized phenomenon.

I agree that there may be some coddling involved these days. I can't say to what degree. I do know that for us older people who were not severe cases, it was a sink or swim world. Much of it was beaten into us. We were too 'normal' to be seen as 'different', but 'different enough' that we were the problem kids.

Many of us were written off and are written off because we just didn't fit.

Like Edenthiel said (in a round about way....I'm extrapolating a bit), we get nailed when we don't do things the way they expect us to do them. Some things are fine the way we do them. But, some things require being done the way they want or expect.

But, there has to be a balance. And, the idea that things should be comfortable is not really helping. People do need to be challenged. Just not beaten or neglected or run down.

As for being 'othered', that can happen a lot of ways. Even for NTs.

But, most people are just doing the best they can. My daughter has a two year old child. I can tell a huge difference in her now. We have completely different type of conversations. She is now learning that there is no manual to raising a child. As parents, we do the best we can for the most part. We take what we think worked with us, try to throw away the things we didn't like and still find ourselves saying or doing 'parent things' that drove us crazy...those oldies but goodies such as "Because I said so!" or "You're too young to understand."

But, it's a minefield as a parent.

As for differences vs limitations. Well, what sort of limitations do you speak of? Are they really a difference or a limitation?

The flip side is that not knowing my limitations has created many bad situations that have flamed my career in several ways and several times. I was arrogant enough to think that because I am stellar in some ways, I should be stellar in all ways. HA! I think I have proven otherwise here on many occasions.

Oddly enough, those outside of myself had those same expectations. But, knowing my limitations would have helped everybody all the way around. I notice that as I figure some small thing to do proactively with my newfound limitations, it is slowly beginning to help in small ways so far. Still new, but knowledge is power.

Also, limitations are a natural part of humanity. If it were easy, every NT would be rich, play in a rock band, be stellar athletes and have boobs that defy gravity or schlongs (or both...who knows?) you could tie knots with. Buckaroo Banzai's, all of 'em!

We would still be the mathletes, programmers and nerds most of us are anyway. But, damn we're good at it! But even there, it's not easy, or every ND would be writing the new OS to show MS and Apple how it should be done, or writing that new program that is not just a meager upgrade but a revolution at best or an evolution at worst, or solving the next big science thing to be solved.

We is whut we is....Rail against it to stretch and grow, but find peace in it as well.

My dad's a boomer. I respect him greatly and we're very close, but we both agree there are things he could have done differently... and others he couldn't have; we didn't know as much about autism 25 years ago as we do now, so even my early diagnosis didn't mean it was clear what to do.

I do wish he'd been able to push me a bit harder. I think I needed it, but I understand why he didn't and sometimes couldn't. He did push a bit, but he was pretty conservative in doing it. Overly cautious, I'd say.

I think differences vs. limitations is a matter of perspective. I don't feel like I have differences that matter to me that aren't limitations. Executive function and social impairments are this huge wall between me and what I want out of life. Obsessiveness? Same thing. These things feel extremely limiting to me and I don't see any way in which they couldn't be. Knowing about them hasn't helped me all that much; they're still there and still in the way. At times it's caused me to fall into deep despair.

One thing I've said before is that my personality and autism don't work well together. Some people are content to be minimally social, to obsess over a topic, and so on. That's fine; but to me, these things sound like someone's idea of a personal Hell for me. So yeah, they are limitations in my life. There's probably stuff I could accept as being differences, not limitations... but I don't really care about them so I don't consider them worth discussing.

I don't think I can find peace in any of it without losing what I feel is a part of me.

I don't like when other people tell me not to consider my limitations as limitations. I understand and respect their point of view but I don't think that they should try to insist that I adopt that same point of view for myself. I understand that they really mean well and just want me to reach my full potential and all those kinds of things and I really do appreciate that. The problem is that people who do that tend to do it using their own abilities as the reference.

I would never cross the Atlantic in my recreational flat water kayak because I understand the limitations of that kayak. Could it be possible to cross the Atlantic in nothing but that little kayak? Well anything might be possible but in all honesty and reality, it's not likely that I would do very well. If I have a choice, I'll book passage on the QM 2. That would make me much more secure in having success in that journey.

I see it kind of like this, the people who tend to tell me that I should not consider my limitations as limitations are like people who take the QM2 across the Atlantic all the time. When they see me, because QM2 standards are what they are used to and pretty much all they know, they don't realize that I am in a flat water recreational kayak. They might see HFA and think, oh, you are in an ocean liner too, just a less luxurious one but one that is perfectly capable of doing the distance. You might not be as fast as the QM2 and you might not have a balcony at every room, you might make it into port in a day or so more than we do, but that is not a big deal so don't consider yourself limited, just consider yourself a little different because the difference is not that great. It's okay if it takes you 6 days instead of 5. It's okay if your restocking and turn around time is two days instead of 10 hours.

So because this is how they are seeing things, they will expect me to be able to leave port every two days and always make it across the Atlantic in 6, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. You got your two days rest and recovery time, come on, let's get back out there again. Don't look at yourself as limited, you are just a little different. What they are unable to see is that in reality, years later, I am still on my maiden voyage with my little paddle, my water bottle, and my box of Cliff bars, in my little flat water kayak, trying to survive and never having had real opportunity to rest or recover. And if I somehow miraculously do make it to port, I certainly won't be able to turn around and go back after only 10 hours.

And NT's might even say something like, "Well, you should have packed your boat better and brought more stuff with you." Yeah, ok, Thanks, I'll pack a bigger suitcase on the way back. That will make the cross Atlantic trip a success. Right, I don't think so.

If I understand the limitations of my boat, I can stay safe and paddle the lakes and slow rivers and protected waterways that it belongs in. I can still become a kick ass flat water kayaker and learn all the skills. But I know that taking it out into open seas is not going to be a good idea because it is not designed for that kind of water. The same goes with me as an Autistic person. I am simply not designed to sustain and endure certain things that NTs do naturally. If I understand the limitations of my unique body and brain, I can work within those parameters. I can still push myself and expect myself to do great things and not settle for mediocrity and because I understand my limitations, I can use that knowledge to be able to creatively work within those parameters in order to reach full potential and to accomplish greater and greater things.

I would never take a Yugo to a Nastar race and expect it to keep up and tell it, "You don't have limitations, you are just different, now get out there and race." That would be ridiculous. Could it be possible that a Yugo could win a Nastar race? Well, technically, yeah, anything is possible. Would I want to be the driver of that Yugo and give it a try? Probably not.

The key to success in this case is to understand that being a flatwater recreational kayak is not a bad thing. It can be a great thing if you paddle flatwater. Being a Yugo can also be a great thing if your goal is to never leave the driveway. But people who tend to tell me not to think of myself as limited don't realize that in reality, I don't have to be negatively affected because of my limitations. Flatwater paddling is awesome and there is so much potential in it and opportunity to do amazing things. I don't have to be a transatlantic ocean liner. That is where it's a matter of just difference. The problem is when they erroneously believe that I should be an ocean liner, a slightly watered down version of them, not understanding that even though I am a boat, I am a very different kind of boat designed for different types of water, and then try to convince me that I should not understand and respect my limitations, but just view them as little differences so that I can keep up with them.

Last edited by skibum on 03 Jun 2016, 6:23 am, edited 8 times in total.

I sometimes conceive of my thoughts as either ASpie or NT generated. Like there are two different things alternating in control of my thinking. Its not that simple, they are intertwined, its just a visual picture that helps me define and deal with the thoughts.

Most thoughts are neutral. Both my AS and NT sides think the same on it. Some thoughts seem to be more on the one side or another. The ASpie side stands out in this, and I have tried to learn to detect thoughts generated mostly from the Aspie tendencies... and to be suspicious of them perhaps, depending on the situation.

If in a benign situation, being creative or relaxing, studying something, I will indulge an Aspie tendency. I believe at times I get more out of things in my Aspie mode. But in a more critical or important situation I will examine my thinking carefully, to make sure the ASpie impulses haven't come up with some stupid s**t.

Well using that analogy, Skibum; all the things I want out of life are across the Atlantic. That makes my limitations feel especially oppressive.

@TomS: I've used that same technique at times. More and more, I found I didn't like what happened when I indulge the more AS-inclined tendencies and I try to follow them no more than absolutely necessary for my emotional well-being.

How so? What do you mean?
See, if I understand my limitations and respect them, I can make the necessary accommodations for them. I can set just as wonderful goals that don't involve open sea crossings. Or if life dictates that I must make a transatlantic crossing, then I will have to hire a fully equipped crew to support me in that. So goals can be achieved and things can be done but it is not right for people to expect me to be an ocean liner when I am a kayak. And if don't know the difference and respect the limitations of that difference, I will only hurt myself.

My desires, interests and values pull me heavily towards things that autism leaves me ill-equipped to do. In some cases, I've had to accept that I'll never be able to do these things well enough to make it worthwhile.

I know my limitations; that doesn't make me feel any better about them.

I am going to disagree with not doing things well enough to make it worthwhile.

I would say that doing things that stretch yourself out, it always has a beneficial effect. And, sometimes, it's good to do something you love without the need to be 'good' or 'great.'

I cannot carry a tune. I cannot sing. I cannot ever be a good musician. But, you know what? I have 3 guitars, 4 keyboards/samplers, mixer and 24 track dedicated recorder or straight into the laptop.

Why? Simply because I love it. I like my noise. Nobody else has to like it. For me, it is the absolute best I can do. And for that, that is good enough for my musical explorations.

I have a relative who is color blind. Sees the world in shades of grey.
He didn't know he was color blind when he was a little kid.
He was slow at learning colors and picking out colors from a crayon box.

He asked me what was the difference between black and white TV and color TV.
When he watched back and white TV he saw colors. He would say something like "the lady in the red dress".
I don't know how he did that.

When you don't know you perceive the world differently, you struggle and try harder to see what you are supposed to see.

I'm willing to bet that he has great discrimination of shades. That matches my example in a way I did not expect LOL!! If he learned (by way of the struggle you mentioned) those colors by shade, he can detail it. But, he is not seeing the way we do.

What a wonderful metaphor!

Now, oddly enough, John Byrne, a very famous comic book artist in the late 70's, 80's and 90's was color blind. He would color some of his own work because he knew basic color theory. He would read the names of the colors and know what colors would go with what just by color theory alone.

It wasn't spectacular, but it was amazing and not bad either. I saw worst colorists that had full color vision LOL

The problem is autism is framed as being a disability, but if you look at the underlying cause, the most substantial studies are showing it's caused by a surplus, rather than a deficit, of something. Research is still biased because they are looking for some deficit, but when people are just looking for things, they find that the most concrete common cause is more neural connections, more activity ect. So to remove autism would essentially be removing a substantial part of your experience in the world. It would be like no longer being able to see red. Sure, maybe you'd be able to function better, but would you really want that?

But you don't know this, and I don't really think this would be the case. The issue is that "autism" is something abstract, but it's ultimately based somewhere on physical reality. Ultimately it's probably the result of a combination of things. So to remove the autism, multiple things would likely have to be changed, and/or a choice of things. So what would be changed, and what impact would those changes have on your personality? It's a question which simply can't be answered, it takes too much information, most of which is unknown. It's a big "what if?" There is no what if, there only is.

Oh, I see. Well, just because it would be a realistically impossible task to try to cross the Atlantic in a little 9 foot kayak, you can certainly try. And even if you never achieve these goals as well as you would like, you can still enjoy them to a degree. I will never be Lindsey Vonn or Michaela Shifrin, and no matter how much I train or try or how good my technique gets, it will never happen. But I love skiing and I will enjoy it to the best of my ability. So if you enjoy what you are doing, even if you are ill equipped, as long as you are enjoying what you can do in that and doing it to the best of your ability, isn't that enough?

@zykdz & skibum: I think it depends on personality and what one is trying to accomplish. For me... unfortunately, it's not enough. I've had to give up on a lot of things and I'm trying to focus on new ones; it's been difficult, but I did feel a weight come off me when I decided "I need to give up on these things." I'm sad about it sometimes, sure; but I don't have it bearing down on me all the time and I've been more emotionally stable as a result. I've kind of found my footing and now I'm figuring out where I go from here.

If I could do it? Yes, without hesitation or qualification; I'd take that trade in an instant. This is unfortunately not an option though, so this is mostly just a thought exercise of sorts. It's a useful one though, and shows how I think of these things; I don't value what autism gives me (it would be hard for me to even name something it gives me), while I greatly value what it puts out of reach for me.

This is why it doesn't feel like a part of me. Instead, it almost feels like a part of me is missing because of it. It's hard to describe.

Part of the problem is it's impossible to know exactly what "autism" gives you. Autism is defined as being a disorder, it doesn't give anything, but the underlying cause, what people are really talking about, usually does.