"You definitely don't have Asperger's!"

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I don't think we can ever be really sure with self-assessment, especially when the questions are very subjective and when they expect black-and-white answers to inherently grey questions. Especially with a spectrum disorder. If there is such a thing as the unconscious, we could fool ourselves and never know it. "Blind" testing is a good principle but I think it would be hard to cover all the traits in that way, and to determine whether or not the subject was habitually compensating for their autism. Though it would be a fine start if the subject didn't know they were under test. I hope they get a good brain-scanning method for ASD one day.

I'm fairly sure I'm an Aspie, but I'll never be absolutely certain.

I agree with the blind test. About the confirmation bias, in this case it's called the nocebo effect (ex: If someone knows the side effect of drugs, they feel it even if the drug is just a flour pill).

I have an ''invisible'' disease, I still have symptoms although I've been treating it my entire life. It's called hypothyroidism. The thing is, it doesn't matter how well I do with the medicine, I ALWAYS have symptoms, not severe, they're mild and constant, but I still have them. It shows in my blood test, my body temperature, my skin texture, sleep.

I recently found out that something I always felt had to do with that health problem just as I had suspected and it all made sense, I was glad it did. Here's the thing, I MYSELF still DON'T believe 100% I have it, although I have tangible proof, symptoms since birth, blood tests and atrofied thyroid glans. I'm still a bit suspicious. ''What if those symptoms were not caused by the disease?''. At the back of my mind I have those thoughts.

I've dealt with many other ''invisible'' problems that needed treatment. I once tore a membrane in my knee and would struggled dealing with stairs. After many doctors, one gave it proper examinantion and provided me with treatment. The other ones didn't even come close to me ''because nothing showed in the x-ray'' so I had to be pretending or it was psychological. The last even put his ear close to my knee to identify unusual sounds. I'm good now, but it took around 4 doctors before I got proper treatment.

Bias is an issue, but I don't want precisely, specifically the diagnosis, I want an understanding of why I have to learn by reading books and attending courses things that people already know naturally, why I don't miss people, why sounds, tastes, lights and textures that bother me never seem to affect other people, if the 'Because' comes with a diagnosis, I'll be very happy to embrace it. It's good to name unknown things, it gives certain influence over them, because you have a direction, a way to treat it and a place from which you can start improving.

Peacefully,
Dante.

Hey, Diamond.

I did some more research of the Personality Disorders, including Schizoid.
Also watched some documentaries about other types of personality disorders (There are many more than I imagined, but none of them were even barely a description of my behaviour).

Schizoid traits - Nah. I'm not antissocial, I do need time alone, less contact, but I enjoy good company and affection to a lesser degree and frequency (only sexually related affection, but the company works for me when we can talk about my interests). I'm not apathic, I just process empathy a bit differently and don't seem to be able to attach.

I was depressed during my adolescence, that SEEMED like Schizoid traits but it wasn't. It was just me trying to figure out by myself how to socialize and understand emotions (failed miserably). As soons I found ways of developing my social skills, I got better and better emotionally.

Social anxiety traits - Nah. I do somewhat fear rejection sometimes, but it doesn't at all keep me from interpersonal relations. As soon as I learn to interact in a new context, I do it regardless of fear of rejection.


And about ASD, I ceased my reaserches on it for a few days or maybe a week. It seems like each and every tiny little detail describes my struggles and mannerisms perfectly, so I prefer to back away a bit so I'm not swallowed by the Confirmation bias monster for reading so much about the topic.

I wonder if the blind test is done when you are sent to a doctor for social security evaluation? That would be interesting. I have been to several of them, one for SSI and two for SSDI.

I have suspected that I have ASD since 11 years old. Some of my reasons:
1. Inability to understand, initiate, and maintain conversation. I can talk to people if I have a set role (guide/informer/interviewee) but am lost otherwise.
2. General lack of social skills. I was kept down in preschool for this, and also not allowed to skip grades because of it (parents' choice). I mostly have a blank face with no emotion.
3. Predisposition to becoming overwhelmed, plus stims to deal with this (kicking of desk or chair legs/tapping fingers/digging nails into hands/soft moaning).
4. Lack of empathy. I try to be a good person, and not to be unkind etc, but lack empathy.
5. Lack of 'Theory of Mind' cognition. I must specifically process that people don't know things that I know to realise this. When I read about the Sally/Anne test, I could not at first understand why Sally would look for the marble in her basket. I probably would have failed the test, had it been put to me.

However, my parents (both doctors) don't want me to have ASD, and therefore will not consider it. They prefer to think that I am NT, but am 'not trying hard enough'. My mother frequently berates me over my lack of empathy (and calls me things that do not bear repeating), and both parents become angry if I bring up Autism.

I, too, can assume a role and act according to it (I think NTs always do that, but naturally). I've set body language and speech patterns to be able to entertain or hold an audience as in College I need to present many papers.

People often wonder how I manage to make this "transformation" thing, where I'm completely isolated, poorly social, shy and out of nowhere I become extrovert and give the lecture just like a pro.

Some people in my College look at me like "WTF? But you were so shy!" others find it surprising how I'm "so good with words" when I'm talking in public (Only if they knew there's little regarding my words). It's because I have set the social role and the script already, have trained the speech patterns, have chosen the body language. It's simple, although not easy to do it. It's tiring, although not so much as in a one-on-one or group conversation.

During a lecutre I can give the impression that I'm interacting so people respond, but I actually already know how, what and when they will respond and I'm having a monologue. I can even talk about FINGERS. Using a set of techniques, I'm able to entertain the audience talking about the stupidest things and making it seem like a big deal.

Sometimes my words are completely senseless and incomprehensible without me noticing. People don't seem to realise that if they're not aware I'm acting.

About empathy, I do have it to a lesser degree. But I see it differently. Usually I was called cold hearted. My grandmother almost died in front of me last year, I wasn't "OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG", I was like "Okay, there's someone dying here, what can I do? Call an ambulance wouldn't be as quick as calling my aunt who lives nearby. Okay, I'm gonna call her. As I don't know how to proceed with medical support, I won't interfere with the fact that she needs assistance. I'll let someone else do it. I was indeed surprised, there was someone dying. But I wasn't irrational to the point I couldn't make decisions. It's indeed bad to see ANYONE suffering, and she was. So I tried to get help as quick as possible. The rest of the family was in utter panic. In the inside I was waving "Bye, grandma! It was nice having you here! Thank you for everything!". I don't see that as cold. It's just truthful. I expect them to die, they're old and have uncountable health issues, that's the logic. I didn't miss her while she was in the hospital but I prayed so she would receive the caring I didn't give her. She's fine now.

PS: About your mother with her mean words. Mine, too. And my mother is the SWEETEST PERSON I HAVE EVER KNOWN. Imagine, the sweetest person you've met in your entire life, calling you names because you are so unbearably overwhelming to deal with. That was me, she would tell me "You need to change", but wouldn't at all show me how and then would blame me.

Peacefully,
Dante .

I meant to respond to this sooner, but I closed the tab and forgot about it.

I find that I'm a bit different. I can keep that NT facade up for months or even years and it only starts to slowly crack when I'm under extreme stress. This can be terrifying for me since the "mask" is almost more a part of my identity than autism is, and I feel helpless. It is never a good feeling. Some folks on these forums have suggested I "be myself" without realizing that I can't do so unless the s**t has well and truly hit the fan... and that at that point it just tends to make everything worse.

In normal, day to day life when everything's going well I don't appear ND; I look like a mildly eccentric NT. I'll usually keep acting that way even when I'm alone; the "mask" is deeply internalized.

Also, I totally get you on speaking to groups. I'm pretty comfortable with public speaking; because then I can plan. I can think about every aspect of my delivery, all the things that I don't get a chance to consider in normal conversation. It's a very different sort of thing and I'd rather speak to fifty strangers than to three.

It's surprisingly hard for NTs to understand this. Predictable environments are fairly simple.

They just say "So, you're not shy" when "shy" wasn't even on the table. I even heard "So you're shy 'cause that girl's hot". Nope. I just didn't have a script for that context, doesn't matter who I wanted to speak with.

Some of us want and need to socialize but can't do it right. When they acquire the proper skills to do so, they start using them until they become second nature. They now have what they need to act NT, although they learned it externally and not as perfectly. I think this is your case.

Some of us, like me, just want and need a few interactions and little affection (I think this has more to do with personality). And when I learn the proper skills to do so, I still just want to socialize sometimes. It isn't very frequently that I use it and it hasn't been long since I started using them. You had treatment when younger, I only found out I could improve considerably some months ago, although I had already found some poorly efficient coping mecanisms before.

I think this has to do with learning from an early age and be willing to interact. You learned what's proper before me and you seem to need more interaction.

I still need a great deal of isolation.

I usually don't wish to interact, so I need to "put the mask on" unwillingly. Although I enjoy deviating between different types of personality, it isn't for the interaction, it is because I want to test my new behavioural patterns.

(I do this for fun) For example, hit on a girl with a completely bold speech pattern and alpha male body language.

And then wait a few days and assume a shy, reserved profile and talk to the same girl to see how she reacts.

Apart from being in solitude, I'm most comfortable as a playful extrovert. The problem is, the only people who see me being a playful extrovert are the ones I see for a short period of time. I can't be like that every day. So I don't say that's "real me".

BUT, when there's no people around who I want to interact with, if not under the circumstances I said, I usually assume a shy and reserved profile.

As I spent a good percentage of my life very isolated and being a social trainwreck, I'm still experimenting to find out what personality traits suit me better and then I keep in constant transition amongst them to find the ones I like the most.

It's still a bit hard to maintain a specific sociable behaviour for long. I'm test driving them, if it makes sense. Some people say "I'm different this week" or "What happened to you? You're not the same". It's becaude of that.

Before learning these new ways of socializing, I only had two extremes, absolutely comfortable OR completely isolated. Both painfully awkward.

Was I intelligible in my explanation?

Peacefully,
Dante.

Because like UntilWeReturn stated, it's for personal reasons. For me, I'm seeking diagnosis because I do not feel comfortable in my skin/ am working on accepting who I am as a whole and loving myself for it. I've had years of lost friendships, glares from family members, polite frosty smiles from co-workers and have been left with the question why can I not function like the rest of my peers? What is different about me?

It's about healing and answering those questions so I can move forward into having peace / start finding things that will help me be productive/ independent and achieve the dream I want. Like Dante, I learned how to act and read people before mimicking their behaviors in order to fit in. I think we HFAs/ Aspies would make great profilers / actors cause of this (Especially women, as studies show we tend to mask our symptoms better and learn how to blend in)

My mother has always suspected I was autistic as has my dad. It's something I'm finally hoping to get resolved despite acting "normal"/ "passing for normal" because I'd like to move on from these questions.

Also Dante, I understand your two extremes with socialization. I joked once to a former pastor that I'll be really involved for 3 weeks then go be a hermit for 6 months. She was surprised to discover the joke was mostly serious.

Emma,

I can relate completely to your descriptions regarding family, friends, work and also about going full hermit.

NTs , too, ALWAYS fake smiles, and they do that consciously. The difference is that we Aspies usually don't know the proper time to fake smiles or the proper intensity of laughs (I'm completely out of sync with this one, I laugh like a male Cruella when no one thinks something's funny).

Aspies also can't seem to enjoy the same types of conversations, take things too literally, say embarrassing things without realising, can't keep conversations rolling and usually, if they do, they keep interrupting people to expose their monologues without realising the conversation must be two sided or else people get bored, offended or just leave.

One more thing I've observed is that we tend to have dissonance in our verbal and non-verbal communication, like saying one thing and showing / meaning something completely different. I can usually lie without showing clear signs of lie, but tell the truth showing all the deception signals in my body language if I'm not paying attention.

I have interviewed people from College on this, they said I do these things WAY MORE OFTEN that I originally thought.

Yes, I do interview people and ask them to talk about me. That helps me a lot.

Thank you for your answer, it's incredibly relieving to have people who can relate to my struggles. It makes me feel normal and accepted.

Thanks to everyone who's been kindly reading and replying to this thread so far. My thoughts are way more clear now about the topics we've been discussing than it was before.

Peacefully,
Dante.

Dante,

I can not tell you how many times I've stuck my foot in my mouth during a friendly conversation and have it turn nasty. My fake smile is for work/ social situations but once a person turns, I drop it as fast as I can / find something to do so I dont have to deal with them. I've been called out for being too loud as well (especially during the new X-men movie, I might have been really happy/ excited). I end up just trying my best to fit in and then just slowly pull away until I'm in hermit mode.

As for the lying thing... my parents can tell when I lie/I've got several tells apparently. And I'm glad to hear you found something that has helped you/ it's good you've found a way that works for you. I bounce ideas off my bestie, girlfriend, and mother as all three have good head off their shoulders/ I've been known to be blunt so they help me check myself.

We WrongPlant forum users gotta stick together I will say I feel the same way just reading over others' posts on the forums and yours as well. It's glad to know we are not alone in this.

You are welcome and I'm glad that your thoughts are clearer now

I am crying right now as I write this, from Relief, Happiness and Joy (with Capitals). I have never in my life been told something like that. The times I got anything similar, the person who said it didn't actually know the real me, so I barely believed them.

And yeah, I've been told I'm too loud too. And also too whispery. I bounce off the two extremes. I have some control now that I've had singing lessons and learned breath support techniques, but I need to pay close attention to it, because it's still not second nature.

Friendly conversations turning nasty... That's regular basis for me although I've managed to reduce the frequency, not the intensity. Since I started studying Discourse Analysis (It's been a year and a half now) I've been doing slightly better with practice and ocasionally some feedback. It's still an issue.

OMG! While writing this something BEAUTIFUL came to my mind! It's a tender memory I have of the place in which I spoke English fluently for the first time. Damn, I'm glad I learned it. Or else I wouldn't be here talking to all these Awesome people.

If I could hug you right now, Emma, I would. I really enjoyed the gif!

At this moment it's night for me and the Moon looks absolutely AMAZING from this side of the world!

Gratefully,
Dante.

Dreadful Dante wrote: Hey, Diamond.

I did some more research of the Personality Disorders, including Schizoid.
Also watched some documentaries about other types of personality disorders (There are many more than I imagined, but none of them were even barely a description of my behaviour).

Me too, I can't find much, other than ASD, that fits me well enough to stick, though I do see a good dollop of anxiety in my mix, so the shrinks might not need a very big hammer to knock me into a "generalised anxiety syndrome" or "social anxiety" pigeon-hole.....(capcha break)

...........And I suspect that it's my experiences in the workplace that have given me that proneness to anxiety, so I might be eligible for a PTSD label and benefit from therapy for that. Though I do recognise a couple of quasi-conditions that I'm pretty damn sure I have. One is depressive realism (the refusal to bolster one's hopes and self-esteem with BS like normal people apparently do), the other is defensive pessimism (an anxiety-management strategy involving the keen-eyed anticipation of, and strong efforts to pre-empt, potential bad outcomes). Mostly I prefer to identify traits and not get too concerned with overarching psych labels, because it's easier to be objective about traits. [ToughDiamond 5, Capcha 0]

Through studying Psychology by myself I was able to cure many of my negative symptoms all alone, without needing any professional help or diagnostic labels.

I always studied the symptoms alone, outside the labels, I wanted to heal the symptoms through dealing with the root cause. Maybe a label would make me believe the issue was permanent, so I prefered not to have them.

I've managed to heal many of my own psychological issues, like panic attacks, depression, traumatic experiences and some other things.

The only thing I never seem to be able to heal from is the lack of social skills. I can only reduce it, but it never goes away.

About the traits:

Realistic means Good + Bad = Real.
People usually call realistic someone who tends to the negative side. It's useful to think both possibilities so the solutions and coping mecanisms can be anticipated for the bad ones.

I need concrete, logic explanation to comprehend reality and have a functional understanding of it.

Nothing I would label as issues, though, these two things really help me.

Peacefully,
Dante.

I think that's very astute, and you're right! I want and need far more social interaction than most other aspies. I still find it draining, but I also get a lot out of it and so I endure. I'm not an extrovert, really... I just like people and often want to talk to them. That's a fine distinction, but a real one.

Reading this post earlier (on my phone, which is awful for typing responses) got me thinking; the reason an early diagnosis would help in this case (I was already sure that it did) is that my parents, teachers, etc. knew I had Asperger's and would have social deficits so they approached the problem that way. They'd explain what was problematic about what I was doing and what I could do differently; a much better approach than a lot of aspie kids get which is unfortunately just going "you're wrong, you're being a little brat, knock it off!" So it does make a difference, but I think it also shows that for us these things are learned skills. There's certainly some hope, there.

As regards your "mask", mine works a bit differently in that I appear to have zero control over it and it seems to actually be my default state. Once it starts slipping my emotional and psychological state follows and I tend to get panicked, dysfunctionally anxious and/or depressed. I'm not sure why this is... I think this is an aspect of my personality rather than of autism. Maybe on a subconscious level, I wish I had access to the skills and abilities of NTs badly enough that I can't handle it when it becomes clear that I don't.

I have worried at times that ultimately, this is harming me.