Do Aspies tend to be less religious than the average person?

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Agnostic Atheist, but I consider myself spiritual. I feel a great sense of awe in nature. I am espically in awe of biology. I have noticed Aspies are less religious. I am a lot calmer about atheism these days. In high school I took an IB course on world Religions.

It tends to be in either extreme:
Autistics are rule followers (generally) so if they believe in god or the bible or stuff like that they probably take it literally and abide by those rules.

However those who don't believe in god and stuff will most likely also be because of rules, although because of logic and rules that make sense.

I'm not sure. The reasons for it could be anything.


In my case, I don't like the concept of worship -- especially if it's mandatory.
I'm not much of a believer of 'things' -- I only believe in possibilities. Chances and choices, and if it's possible for it to occur or not.
I especially don't like it when people want others to believe the same as their own beliefs.


My own concept of faith and spirituality had little or nothing to do with worshipping and following -- rituals/guides/concepts in words, models/idols/personalities and their acts/deeds/morality, or otherwise.

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Campin_Cat (and Others)

Please don't take this as a personal assault. I never deliberately attack a persons faith... And I argued with myself all day before writing this.

People generaly need a belief system to support their mind and make sense of their life.

When I was eight years old I was told god would not let me into heaven because I had not been "confirmed". My first reaction was thats not very nice. Second was why is god so nasty to me if he made me and is supposed to love me? My third thought was I have never seen anything to make me believe in a god and if he is so nasty I don't want anything to do with him. (Male white supremacy - god depicted as a european man with a flowing beard on a flying throne).

When I was eleven my grandmother had a stroke. Why?
When I was thirty my mother was killed by a car. Why?
When I came out as sexually other my ex told my children that I did not love them. Why?

The universe has existed for billions of years. Somehow the matter from dead stars ended up as swirling dust which coalesced to eventually form our tiny insignificant little planet and for an incredibly minute period of time a self aware intelligence has evolved which, like a Victorian explorer, believes the whole unimaginably vast edifice was created for us to do with as we please.

I read the bible. How many times does that worthy book instruct a man to sacrifice his first born son?
I read the Koran. How can anyone take seriously a book that gives instruction on how to beat your wife so the marks don't show? (Written by men long after Mohammed's death.)
I have read several works on bhuddism and bhuddist ethics. (Siddhartha Gautama's teachings are worthy of study.)
I have read Charles Darwin and Richard Dawkins work. They explain everything from windblown sand to us and beyond (though what that may be I can only guess).
Modern scientific research is gradually revealing the structure of the universe and the subatmomic.

Every time I get in the car there is a statistical probability that I will be involved in a crash that might kill me. I can improve the odds by my choice of car, route, driving speed and time of travel. It is not belief. It is knowledge and experience. Some probabilities are greater than others. If I ride in an express train there is a low probability that I will be killed. If I walk on the express railroad track there is a high probability that I will be killed.

My mother was in a foreign land and a combination of factors led to her being struck. She could have eaten in a different diner, drunk more or less, left sooner or later, missed the airplane or been in a crash on her way to the airport. That is where chaos theory comes in. (Of course the driver could have been socially resposible and not tried to drive home... but that is a different sequence of events.)

Stated simply chaos theory says there are many possible states for things to be in. Very few are the one we want. As a simple example try to make a hosepipe into a neat coil by gathering it in your arms and throwing it on the ground. It will go into loops, whirls and knots. There are millions of possible shapes; only one is the desired neat coil. This random behaviour of air, water, objects and people, and the chance encounters engendered effects every aspect of our every waking moment. Sometimes things just work out. Someone buys a coffee and misses the train which crashes. And sometimes they don't. It did for my mother. Pan Am 103 was on it's way down as it went over her house to fall on Lockerbie. Wasn't she lucky? It didn't for my mother. She met a drunk driver while crossing a road. Wasn't she lucky? If Donald Saul hadn't told me god wouldn't let me into heaven I might not be writing this now. Aren't you lucky?

Religion is a mental prop and defence against this unimaginable chaos and our utter insignificance. If you attack a persons religion you threaten to destabilise their entire existance. They will fight back as desperately as any drowning victim will fight to regain the surface.

It took me forty years from that encounter with Donald Saul to be able to say "There is no such thing as god" and know it is true. I don't know how the universe came to be and I am allright with that. I do not know when I will die and I am allright with that. (I just hope it is quick and not too painful!) I am living on borrowed time. It is modern scientific and medical research which is keeping me alive, from the cathode tomography scanner which diagnosed my stroke to the medicines which prevent a second one. (However sometimes think I am more likely to be murdered by some religious bigot than die of a second stroke.)

Without my incredibly complicated brain to support the electrical activity I cease to exist. (Believe me I have first hand experience of my brain failing and have seen the image of the dead part of my brain!) There is no way all this (observable) activity can survive after my death. Not only am I allright with that but I am pleased. If no-one remembers me after I am gone I am allright with that too. I do not want my family and friends to greive for me but to celebrate my life and then live theirs as fully as they can.

No heaven. No hell. No more suffering. Ever.

Sorry Campin-Cat. (And anyone else whom I may have upset)

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People need something. If you undermine their faith you have to offer a new support.

My support is living the best life I can by causing the least hurt to the people around me and the least damage to the world we live in. I support or volunteer with three non-religious charities working to improve peoples lives now and in the future.

As I may not be around to respond to requests... I recommend "Bhuddism Plain and Simple" by Steve Hagan or in more depth "Confessions of a Bhuddist Atheist" by Stephen Batchelor. (I have no connection with either author or their publishers and accept no reponsibility for any consequences arising from these recommendations or the actions of persons who read these texts.)

@Voyagergirl: PHEW----there's all KINDS of things, going-on there (your last post to me)----but, I'm gonna try real hard, to respond, appropriately.....

FIRSTLY, there's NO reason to apologize to me, as I LOVE to hear EVERYBODY'S opinion, on EVERYTHING, cuz I don't wanna block a chance, to LEARN----and, I don't take what you've said, as a personal attack (OR, an attack on my faith, for-that-matter), so no need to worry, if you were.

Secondly (another really important thing), is that I'm SOOOOO sorry about all the things you've had to go-through (I can totally relate - posted, somewhere on this thread, that alot of really bad things have happened to me, too)----the strokes, you and your grandmother have suffered, the way you loss your mom (I've lost a relative, to a drunk driver, as well), your ex's mistreatment of you, etc.----and, I really feel that I can "hear" your hurt, and my heart truly goes-out to you.

Another thing that struck me, about your post, is..... It seems like you were, possibly, raised as a Catholic? (You used the word "confirmed", so that's what made me think that.) It never ceases to amaze me the amount of Catholics, whom I've met, throughout my life, who aren't religious (I think I've only met, about FIVE religious Catholics, in my entire life - and, that may be a stretch, in the amount), and it's always been fascinating to me, because, having been to so many Masses (almost all of the people with whom I was associated, growing-up, were Catholic), there's so much, like, really serious stuff, in Catholicism----so many things, one has to DO (rituals and stuff), remember (like all the saints and what they did, and stuff; and, when one is suppose to pray to which one, or whatever), and there's these idols (of the saints, I guess?), and one has to know which one to go to, to pray for whatever specific thing, things one has to adhere to (like, having to say "Hail Marys", and stuff - and, one having to do penance, and countin' Rosary beads, or whatever); I was glad I never took any more interest in their church than just being there, with / for my friend, cuz I was asked----cuz, I would've SURELY had a nervous breakdown, tryin' to figure it all out, follow all those rules, and stuff; and, I was always relieved, when the service was over!! LOL (wink - no offense to any practicing Catholics).

Anyway, I'm of the protestant faith, and we don't have all that stuff----we just, basically, have "Read the Bible", "Be kind to one another", "Don't kill anybody"----and, we've usually got some candles, and a cross, and some flowers----and then, we've got that thing where we "drink" the blood of Christ, and "eat" of his flesh, once-a-month. Now, I'm also a hillbilly, and there's an awful lot of "fire and brimstone", hillbillies----but, again, I was lucky, and just observed, and learned. I had a sister who was a total Bible-thumper, and I stopped going to church with her (it was one of those so-called "Holy-Roller" churches), when a tiny little girl (maybe, about, a whole FIVE-years-old) came-up to me, and asked me if I was going up to the altar, and confess my sins----I thought to myself: "OMG, this kid was put-up to this", and it kinda scared me, because even though I doubt she had any idea, what she was saying / what it meant, she was being, IMO, indoctrinated, and that makes me think "cult", and that's disturbing, to me.

Anyway, another reason why I feel it's quite possible that Aspies (and others) reject religion, is because it says to "conform", and alot of Aspies just don't like the sound of that, ONE BIT----and, again, I can totally understand that, as I was SOOOOO into that (NOT conforming), when I was a "kid" (all the way up, into my 20s). I feel it was, sort-of, maybe, a defense mechanism----like: "Yeah, that's right, I'm weird, but there's not a THING I can do about it"; so, it was, sort-of, impossible to conform, and by NOT conforming, I was, like, choosing to be proud (and you know what they say: "pride goeth, before a fall" - and, it seems that has NEVER failed, at least, IME), that I was different, and if anybody else, didn't like it (like ME), THEY were the ones that were gonna have to get over it / themselves, cuz I couldn't change MYSELF. I learned, however, that fighting conformity----and, at the same time, pretty much DEMANDING that I be accepted for who / what I am (and thus, demanding that others conform to ME, basically), was not gonna wash, with anybody----and, that the only way that it WOULD, was to decide to meet them, halfway, so-to-speak; so, I learned their "game" (not usually literal), and tried to play it (learned how to behave, react, NOT react, and so-forth), to the best of my abilities, and knew that when I came home, alone, and closed the door, ALL BETS WERE OFF, and I was free to do whatever I wanted; so, I could live with that.

Another thing that some refusing-to-believe people don't seem to realize, is that no one HAS TO stay with whatever, particular church, if they don't like it / the people / the way the service is conducted, or whatever----they can shop-around, just like one would, for their favorite pizza parlor, or their favorite auto mechanic, or whatever. It's not "one size fits all". I've been to churches in homes / home basements, where, basically, a few members of whatever church decided they wanted to break-off and do things THEIR way; I don't see any problem, with that, and I can't imagine God having a problem with it, either----IMO, He's only just asked us to believe-in Him, don't put anyone above Him (which is why that praying to those saints, in Catholicism, makes me worrisome / nervous), and do our best to love and be kind to one another (which sounds like what you're already doing with your volunteer work, and stuff)----and, you know, try not to kill anybody!! LOL

Also, that "first born son" thing, that you mentioned, is only mentioned, IIRC, in the Old Testament----when Jesus came-along (New Testament), He gave us what I like to call, "The Bible Lite". God / Jesus KNEW, IMO, that people were really struggling on earth to try and keep our noses clean, and follow all these laws, and stuff; so Jesus set-about reiterating what was MOST important (this is where the "be kind to one another", and "don't kill anybody", comes-in)----but, unfortunately, He also gave us MORE questions, because He chose to teach / preach in parables, that left people, to-this-day, scratching their head----even people who have been Bible scholars / experts, for YEARS (don't worry, I don't consider myself, a Bible expert LOL).

I'm very GLAD that you've done so much reading (the Bible, Koran, and other books)----and, because you said it took you 40 years to get to the point, of "There is no such thing as god", it appears you tried (I don't like it, when people speak-of things, like they KNOW [matter-of-factly], but of which they have no first-hand experience [I'm reminded-of when one is little and doesn't wanna eat peas, or whatever, and state: "I don't like them", and their mother says "How do you know you don't like them, if you've never tried them" LOL]). I said "appears" because, often, I have felt that people do all the reading / studying / research so they can truthfully say "I read all the stuff, and I STILL don't believe"----and that they feel that that should be PROOF (proof, that they would require of someone else)----BUT, I'm not convinced with some of these people, that they truly read / study / research, with an open mind / heart.

I feel that it's quite possible, that many of them (adults) are like scared little children----they're, like, "stuck" in that place, where they were hurt / disappointed / whatever, the MOST (like, maybe, the way you were feeling, when that male told you, you wouldn't get to go to Heaven, if you hadn't been confirmed - it's bad enough when people do this to kids, to get them to obey; but, it's even worse, IMO, when they use God, to make children fall, in-line). I can TOTALLY understand this, as I'm STILL holding a grudge against my sisters / family (stuck, as that little girl, in some ways), for the way they so badly treated me, growin'-up----and, had to really FIGHT, for-a-time, with MYSELF, when I was a "kid" (again, like, in my 20s), to not have a big ol' chip on my shoulder / be bitter about all the crap I had to put-up with, growing-up (again, NOT Aspie-related); but, luckily, I was able to put alot of extra hard work, time and energy into it (and, had alot of help from friends / extended family - "I get-by with a little help from my friends" [I'm always thinking in song lyrics, or movie/TV scripts, for some reason LOL]), and was able to muddle-through (and, it's a good thing, I had friends, in those early days, to help me get past THOSE insecurities, at least, cuz, like alot of Aspies, I don't have any friends, now).

I also feel, sadly, that it's quite possible that alot of these people that do all this reading / research, and stuff, will NEVER believe / have faith, because another reason that their heart / mind isn't open to it, is because they have expectations (again, I can totally understand this, because no matter how old I get, it seems I'll never learn how to NOT have expectations, regarding whatever)----expectations, that the Bible will provide THEE answer - THEE cure, or whatever, for their wounds; and, I feel that that's when we need to turn INward----that that's the only place where we can ever HOPE to find an answer / cure (cure, for how we're feeling, because we've been hurt; NOT a cure, for Autism), because nothing on the OUTside will ever be enough (like, for instance, I feel shop-ahaulics are trying to buy happiness, and that's just never going to happen, IMO).

As for people desperately fighting-back, when they feel someone is attacking their belief----I feel that it's quite possible, that that has more to do with ego and / or insecurity (that, maybe, they're NOT so sure-about what they're saying / believing, and that "How DARE someone tell them, they're wrong"), and one has to learn how to spot those types, and know that it's THEM, and not the person trying to learn, from them; and, to just take them, with a grain of salt. I'm thinking that in ALL walks of life, those type of people, exist (the egotistical / insecure kind)----there are students who are insecure / unsure of themselves, that they've truly learned, all that they feel one would expect them, to; doctors who feel their statements should never be questioned, and teachers, cops, auto mechanics, waitresses----the list is ENDLESS!!

I worry, TOO, that people who are, like you say, "sexually other" (and gays, and all KINDS of "different" people), are gonna get killed by "some religious bigot"----and, I don't like that those people ("religious bigots") think the way they do, because it, too often, closes one's mind to the rest of us, who DON'T feel that way (myself, included - I've got several gay relatives, for instance, and don't think they're "less than", because they're gay), and I don't feel anyone should close their mind to anyone ELSE'S opinion, because that, IMO, could block a path to learning (and, goodness KNOWS we Aspies, for instance, LIVE to learn)----but, please don't let that stifle your life / freedom / happiness, because it might never happen.

Again, thankyou for the pre-emptive apology----but, it was not needed----I'm a pretty tough ol' broad (not thin-skinned)! ! LOL (wink)

And, here's to you, feeling better, in body, mind, and spirit, REAL SOON!!

Welp...

Out of an 18 person, all male, all Aspie support group...

Only 2 are atheists, 3 are "there is something bigger than ourselves", and the rest are in some sort of organized religion.

I think message boards skew more towards non religious folks. In real life, the non organized relgion people are a very small minority.