19 Dec 2017, 3:35 pm
goldfish21
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19 Dec 2017, 3:46 pm
cubedemon6073 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
HistoryGal wrote:
Elaine has the right idea. No airy fairy hippie doo crap.
Even rags to riches means a big degree of luck. I doubt Elaine or anyone else here doesn't try.
Positive thinking to influence your reality is bull....
Even rags to riches means a big degree of luck. I doubt Elaine or anyone else here doesn't try.
Positive thinking to influence your reality is bull....
Keep telling yourself that & see what results you get.. it's a self fulfilling prophecy.
Then it begs the question. How do we tell what is a self-fulfilling prophecy vs not? This is another problem with the idea of positive thinking as it stands. Henry Ford said a quote that is based upon this philosophy which said "Whether You Think You Can…Or Whether You Think You Can’t…You’re Right!"
The problem with this thinking is that it is not falsifiable. Let's say I say there are only white ducks that exist and someone proves there is a blue duck that exists. He was able to disprove what I said. In our society, when I use logic and reason to disprove this philosophy in differing ways I'm told I'm being to negative. In other words, let's pretend that not being optimistic as defined by our society was against the law. By it's internal logic, one can't disprove it without being negative.
Actually, despite what almost seems like a circular reference when reading your words.. your attempts to disprove the philosophy actually strengthen the proof of it's existence!
Your own thoughts that this philosophy can't be true only serve as examples to prove it! You think it can't be fact, so, for you, it isn't! Thus proving the philosophy is in fact true.. because "Whether you think you can, or you can't, you're right." I get that your argument is against the philosophy and not against something you think you cannot do, but my point holds true. Your thoughts are "can't thoughts," and thus your belief shapes your reality that this philosophy can't hold true.. and thus proves the philosophy itself.
For anyone who thinks they can do something, that's the starting point of being able to do it, and they're more likely to go forth and accomplish what they set out to. If you think you can't, well then there's the biggest constraint to you completing something - you've already predetermined in your own mind that you cannot succeed, and so you most likely will not, IF you even bother to Try at all.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.19 Dec 2017, 4:01 pm
goldfish21
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19 Dec 2017, 4:17 pm
cubedemon6073 wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
When is not trying the right thing to do?
Well, how do we define right and wrong.
Here is my answer. The great philosopher, Socrates, chose to quit trying to live and give up his life when he had the option to run away. He did that to prove a point. Robert Service wrote a poem called "The Quitter" which is at https://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/r ... e-quitter/
What if sometimes quitting becomes a form of fighting. Socrates quit. He gave up. Yet, he won a victory in the end.
Quote:
In war? Just roll over and die, don't try to win/live etc.
That makes the presumption that one either has to fight or die. Who says one simply can't just burn the draft cards and flee to Canada like during the Vietnam War.
Quote:
In sports? They're statistically favoured to win so our team may as well just forfeit.
If there was a way to beat the other team I would try to beat them.
Quote:
In education? Work? Love? Life?
Depends!
Quote:
Hell, I once played a poker game with 2 others. Our friend that was favoured to win was out first. I had 1 chip of 500. The other remaining player had 499. The third guy told me to just give up already so we could be done the game and start a new one. I refused. I played properly. Guess what? I won all 500 chips. It doesn't matter if you're down to 1 chip, it matters how you play the game when the chips are down. I didn't make this up, either. This was a real life poker game and real life is much like that poker game. There is Never a time to give up and not try, even when the chips are stacked against you 499:1.
I hope the money you put up was a set amount you could afford to lose.
Quote:
There's a difference between Trying to study engineering in order to have a lucrative career, failing, and then shifting focus or quitting. Real life example of a high school peer: He failed out of electronic engineering at the technical institute I attended. Did he give up on lucrative career plans? No. He shifted his focus and became a commercial pilot instead. He now earns a lot more money than he would have as an engineer.
What caused him to fail?
Quote:
If you define "shifting focus," as stopping work towards a goal and starting to do nothing instead, that's quitting. If you define it as taking a break from stressful attempts in order to reorganize and try again at something else, that's shifting focus. How would you define it? Same? Differently?
For most cases, I would say it is the same. The exception is when quitting becomes a form of doing something. Sort of like Socrates did and my commentary on the Quitter.
So, someone quit once and it worked out for them so that's justification to give up and quit anything and everything whenever you can? Ok there.
Fleeing to Canada is a form of Trying to live, not exactly quitting.
There is ALWAYS a way to beat the other team so you ALWAYS have to at least Try.
I think we maybe bet $5 (or less, each) on the poker game just to make it realistic vs. "just for fun." It certainly wasn't high stakes. But regardless of the wager, one should play the game in the same way.
The f**k should I know what caused him to fail? Maybe his brain isn't meant for engineering? Maybe he didn't try? A million different things could have caused the outcome. My point is, I know he wasn't successful in his academic pursuit of becoming an electronic engineer & instead shifted focus to becoming a pilot and then did so. I see his periodic updates on Facebook. He drives a nice Lexus, has a girlfriend, and has successfully battled some form of cancer. I think he's back to work as a pilot now.
Sounds like your grasping at straws trying to justify quitting as a viable option for a variety of things in life because Trying is hard. Newsflash: Nothing worth doing is easy! Trying is SUPPOSED to be hard. Ah well, whatever, quitters just make it more relatively easy for us who Try to succeed as it depletes the pool of potential worthy competition.
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for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.
19 Dec 2017, 5:05 pm
19 Dec 2017, 5:41 pm
goldfish21
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19 Dec 2017, 5:49 pm
Ashariel wrote:
It seems to me that everyone in this thread would probably consider themselves an 'optimistic realist' (or a 'realistic optimist'). I think we all agree that it's admirable to do the best one can, within the constraints of reality. But there does come a point when it's okay to admit that a goal isn't realistic for you.
For example, my very first career goal as a kid was to be a Harlem Globe Trotter. (Despite the fact that I was white, female, from the back woods of Maine, and terrible at basketball.) My parents gently told me this probably wasn't a realistic goal for me, and that I should give thought to other aspirations. And I appreciate their realistic, common-sense advice on this issue.
Also, my mom had a kid in her nursery school class who had ADHD, and thought he could fly. He put on a cape, and jumped out a second-story window, absolutely certain that it would work. (It didn't, but luckily he was okay.) The power of positive thinking, of truly believing he could do anything he set his mind to, failed epically in that instance.
Yes, it's possible for someone who is 5'6" to play major league baseball. But someone who's blind, paralyzed, and intellectually disabled? Not so much.
As a 'realistic optimist', I advocate setting realistic goals, and being optimistic about achieving them. Which may seem like common sense, and maybe I'm misunderstanding this whole argument, but it seems to me that what we've got here is a debate between 'realistic optimists' and 'optimistic realists' - and the truth is we're all on the same side here.
For example, my very first career goal as a kid was to be a Harlem Globe Trotter. (Despite the fact that I was white, female, from the back woods of Maine, and terrible at basketball.) My parents gently told me this probably wasn't a realistic goal for me, and that I should give thought to other aspirations. And I appreciate their realistic, common-sense advice on this issue.
Also, my mom had a kid in her nursery school class who had ADHD, and thought he could fly. He put on a cape, and jumped out a second-story window, absolutely certain that it would work. (It didn't, but luckily he was okay.) The power of positive thinking, of truly believing he could do anything he set his mind to, failed epically in that instance.
Yes, it's possible for someone who is 5'6" to play major league baseball. But someone who's blind, paralyzed, and intellectually disabled? Not so much.
As a 'realistic optimist', I advocate setting realistic goals, and being optimistic about achieving them. Which may seem like common sense, and maybe I'm misunderstanding this whole argument, but it seems to me that what we've got here is a debate between 'realistic optimists' and 'optimistic realists' - and the truth is we're all on the same side here.
But of course there's a difference between realistically achievable & blatantly silly and unrealistic daydreams of a young child.
Thing is that cube's version of "reality" is my version of a pessimistic and depressed state of mind, not realistic limitations due to goals being so far fetched they're ~comedic.
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No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.19 Dec 2017, 5:53 pm
19 Dec 2017, 5:57 pm
19 Dec 2017, 6:00 pm
goldfish21
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19 Dec 2017, 6:01 pm
cubedemon6073 wrote:
In other words, I envision the worst case scenarios and come up with things to mitigate those scenarios. The problem I run into is I clash with those that are called strategic optimists which is what goldfish is I think is. I gave an answer as to how I would raise a disabled child.
IMHO, one should try to get a child to be as independent as one can but be prepared for the day that it may not be possible. He seems to think that anyone who would do that is an as*hole and the truth is a lot of people in our society would this this way.
I believe that if our society took a more defensive pessimistic approach instead of a can-do and optimistic approach I think paradoxically people would be more optimistic and there would be more can-do attitudes. But, maybe a number of people are not inclined to this approach I don't know.
IMHO, one should try to get a child to be as independent as one can but be prepared for the day that it may not be possible. He seems to think that anyone who would do that is an as*hole and the truth is a lot of people in our society would this this way.
I believe that if our society took a more defensive pessimistic approach instead of a can-do and optimistic approach I think paradoxically people would be more optimistic and there would be more can-do attitudes. But, maybe a number of people are not inclined to this approach I don't know.
Incorrect. We just differ in how we think it would be best to raise a disabled child to be as independent as can be. I believe there is no positive serving purpose to filling their head with statistics that limit their beliefs of their own capabilities, that doing so & being so negative and pessimistic is an as*hole move. No f*****g way I'd raise a disabled kid reminding them every day that they're disabled and statistically probable to not reach abc or xyz milestone in life. Instead, I'd encourage them to Try, and keep trying, and let them know that it's all right if they only achieve _____ because they tried their best & the result is okay. But I certainly would not fill their head with statistics about other peoples' lack of success so that they can use it as justification not to bother trying in the first place. That's the as*hole move - preaching mediocrity or even failure instead of nurturing a positive can-do attitude of never say never, I got this!
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No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.19 Dec 2017, 6:03 pm
goldfish21
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Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
19 Dec 2017, 6:03 pm
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Ok, when we're talking about reality what do we mean? Are we talking about existence and the universe? Are we talking about the social reality of society in general?
Perception is reality. Yours is different than mine. Change your perceptions, change your reality.
_________________
No
for supporting trump. Because doing so is deplorable.19 Dec 2017, 6:26 pm
19 Dec 2017, 6:34 pm
19 Dec 2017, 6:37 pm
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