General Question About AS *People*

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A little bit of my family history has been discussed in another thread. In short - I'm 37 years old - and have an older brother that has been diagnosed as having AS. Just having the diagnosis has been helpful in understanding a lot of things in our family dynamics (especially between my brother and I) over the course of our growing up.

However, I will say that a lot of my questions are un-resolved, at least on an emotional level. To be honest - I love the guy - but I don't like him. It seems to me that he makes it impossible to like him. My brother and I have never had a good relationship - which he will tell you about at length given any opportunity. Every conversation is fraught with tales of the horrible things I did when I was 15 years old (over 30 years ago) - like sneaking out of the house to hang out with friends - listening to Beatles records until 1AM - etc. It seems that our relationship was caught in a rut over 30 years ago - and with him it's remained constant.

As a result of our relationship - I have a hard time having a frank and honest discussion with him about things. I'd like to understand - but it seems that I'm "walking on eggshells" - and if I touch upon anything personal - it blows up.

...and I'll be honest. I've got a certain amount of resentment built up as a result of 37 years of that. AS or not - I think my brother's an as*hole. I really wish I could get past that - but I really can't. Every time that I tell him that I love him, and have it followed up 20 minutes later by him explaining to my wife (or whoever may listen) that they don't understand what a dick I really am because they didn't get subjected to the "Beatles onslaught" 30 years ago - just really kinda wrecks any forward momentum for me.

I'd like to understand - but unfortunately I can't find out from him. We just don't have that kind of relationship.

So - in in the interests of understanding - I'd like to ask a few questions. Based upon my history with AS (my brother) I'm not anticipating this will go well. However - I keep reading that AS people appreciate bluntness and frank discussion - so I'm going to try to be as blunt as possible.

Simply put - it's my perception that Aspies are neurotically self-obsessed to the point where it makes any kind of real empathy or human interaction impossible. After all, if every thought is consumed by worry about how others are perceiving you - how can you separate yourself for a moment to really venture a guess into what's going on in someone else's mind? When you compound that with negative feelings of persecution - it creates a genuine lack of interest (and almost contempt) for what the other person is experiencing.

To the bulk of the world - and I'll admit to me as well - the lack of empathy for others with a tinge of contempt just reeks of utter and complete selfishness and narcissism. That leads me to think that in the case of Aspies, it's a case of the chicken and the egg. Which came first? Did the perceived intolerance of others create the distaste you have for the world - or is the "intolerance" a result of what the world perceives as being the Aspies utter selfishness and complete self-absorption? All of the talk of how the rest of humanity sucks, all of the nervous personal preening, the lack of eye contact, etc...to me it all reeks of needless and intense self scrutiny that has gone seriously awry.

Bluntly put, that's how I see it. I may be right, I may be wrong, but all of my experience with my brother over 37 years leads me to that conclusion. I'd like your input on that - to fill in the blanks where I might be missing it.

Now, here is the biggest thing for me...

Do Aspies experience the feeling of gratitude? I'm not talking about whether or not you have the emotional or personal skills to express it. Expressing something properly, and feeling it, are two different things. I'm interested in what's going on internally. Do Aspies *experience* gratitude? Do Aspies appreciate the efforts of others - which makes their lives as they know it possible - and do they experience gratitude as a result of it?

Let's see how this goes...lol Like I said - I always hear that Aspies appreciate bluntness. Let's hope that it's not just "one-sided" bluntness - in essence using their infirmity as a license to be as direct as possible - but unable to appreciate it in return

Oh my goodness. There is a layer of dysfunctional family dynamics on top of having AS in the family. I know. I was the youngest in a family with generational alcoholism and a mother in some respects similar to your mother. I came out of it super independent, moderately successful, solitary, with a bushel of hurtful memories that I stash away. None of us siblings are close. None of them know I have AS. Probably none of them would be much interested to know either, though I may chose to say something.

When I found out I had AS a few years, I realized that a lot of the totally incomprehensible garbage I got from my family was in part because I'm so profoundly different, and that difference was interpreted as rebellious, wilfull disobediance, antagonism, 'acting smart', 'thinking you know it all', being selfish, and so forth. So - I've learned to cut them some slack, and realize that I was incomprehensible to them as they were to me. It works both ways. And I've forgiven them for much of the garbage too. No one knew back then about AS.

If your brother is motivated to learn about AS (read Tony Attwood's books for example) and engage with other people on the spectrum, he will likely reciprocate more than he has. He could grow up some that's for sure.

One thing more I want to say. It is remarkable to me that you try very hard to get through to your brother. I mean you use the word 'love' and I think that you mean it. You come here and take some heat to get some answers. That impresses me. What Fraya especially and others have said in this thread describes what it is like having AS better than any thing I've read. I hope you and your brother can get close. Best wishes and keep on.

I stopped reading when you said you think he is an as*hole. stop looking for permission to be rude to him...put aside your childhood issues, and reconnect. (if that is what you want.)

not every personality flaw can be laid on the lap of "being an aspie".

give up the ghost...cleanse yourself of your resentment...and start fresh.


it will do you both a world of good.

Then... you missed a lot. Keep in mind that AS or not -- it takes TWO to reconnect -- and at this time, there only seems to be one willing.

I have noticed that about him... for example: We went shopping together; he isn't much for shopping Problem is he had no "regular" clothes -- he had what he needed for work, which was office attire, somewhat formal and he had PJs. Nothing in between... nothing to just kick around in or wear to the grocery store or farmer's market, etc. So we went and got him some jeans... a few shirts, some new casual shoes... on the outside, he seemed really bored and uninterested in the entire event and with all the clothes he saw and tried on. When asked which of the 3 pairs of jeans he tried on he liked best... he just mumbled and took one pair out of my hands and shuffled toward the check out.

Ok, this just made me laugh because it sounds exactly like what I do when my girlfriend takes me shopping.

If I had to guess why your brother acted the way he did, I would say that there are a number of factors, a few of which have been identified already (crowds, lights, overstimulation). But even more important, I think, is to understand that when you enter the shopping mall to buy new clothes for other than the barest utilitarian purpose, you are implicitly treating your body as something to be enhanced and displayed. It isn't hard to see why this idea makes ASers uncomfortable, as many of us have chosen to "opt out" of the social status game and cultivate a self-consciously disinterested attitude toward fashion and beauty.

Put more simply, your brother doesn't want to admit that he cares how he looks.

I'm not saying all this justifies an ungrateful attitude, but please try to understand that by encouraging your brother to buy new clothes for himself, you are pushing him back into the social "arena" where he has already fought and lost many battles.

There are 3 siblings in my family. When the impending deaths of my parents started becoming apparent - we started to find out how my parents intended to disburse the estate. Basically - the oldest sibling was going to get shafted - and my brother and I would receive the lions share of everything. To me, that seemed implicitly unfair. I won't go into all of the details as to why they decided that - but based upon my subjective interpretations of "right and wrong" - I decided that I didn't want to be a part of that. I think that ideally - there are 3 children - the estate should be divided into thirds.

I talked to my brother about it - and told him that I intended to figure out the portion that I would receive if it *had* been split into thirds - and give my sister the excess. I told him that it was completely up to him whether or not he wanted to do that - but that I intended to - because I didn't believe the folks were right in what they were doing.

So far as I can tell, he has no intention of doing this. Fine. But ya know, it does make me wonder about character, and whether or not there's any sort of respect for others going on in his mind. Is there gratitude? Well, he lived with mom and dad for 40 years, and they did much more for him than for the rest of us...and never once did I hear a "thank you" for it...or see any gesture that he appreciated what they were doing for him. God forbid - you threatened to take it away. In his eyes that was not acceptable...so it isn't like he was apathetic or ambivalent about his living situation. He expected it to continue as it was. But - the recognition that things "didn't just happen" - and that the nice house that he lived in (and expected) didn't just miraculously appear...or get bestowed upon our family by some chance of luck - seemed to elude him. He never expressed any kind of appreciation toward my father for all of the real work that was involved in granting him the living situation he was accustomed to.

Then you compound that by what's going on at the end...which seems almost like some sort of selfish sense of entitlement...being perfectly willing to see a sibling get shafted...to me it just reeks of nothing but "take take take".

That's why I asked what I did. From what I've read about Aspies - it seems that they are socially hindered... So fine... I'll grant that the ability to communicate something or express it can be quite separate from what someone actually feels. Maybe he just can't express it. But ya know, I wonder, do they feel it?

...or are they just selfish as hell?

What you are seeing is not the Asperger's. You are seeing someone who was cared for by mommy & daddy until he was 40. How many people do you know who would feel gratitude after being handed everything their whole life, Aspie or not? How could he know what a great thing he had if he's never experienced anything different? He was a pampered and spoiled brat is all. He is probably a little more susceptible to it than an NT simply because he doesn't pick up as well on the signals this generates from others around him, but in the end that is strictly secondary.

Many people believe we are incapable of caring for ourselves because we are different. It seems inherent to the human condition that we automatically judge anyone different from us as lesser. If a person is raised in this sort of environment from birth, it is very difficult for them to distinguish between these false perceptions and the truth. The truth is, we can make do perfectly fine. We just have to believe it enough to bother trying.

I expect your parents bought into this viewpoint from the start, assumed your brother was disabled rather than extraordinarily different, and trained him to believe this himself. They also trained him to believe he was entitled to special treatment just because he was "disabled". If you truly believe you are entitled to something, how can you feel grateful for it? Having grown up with this perspective, there was no reason for him to ever question it so long as it kept working for him. Once a creature of any kind becomes dependent on handouts, it will tend to remain dependent. Your brother is psychologically dependent, and will most likely remain so. Now please stop calling us a bunch of narcissistic, selfish, self-centered as*holes just because your brother happens to be one.