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magz
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26 Jun 2019, 9:26 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
When I don't follow social hierarchies (I often have trouble even noticing them), some people interpret my behavior as placing myself above everyone.
Refusing to submit to a self-appointed authority (or a bully) is also seen as arrogance.
Self-appointed authorities (i.e. a narcissist in my family) are the first to see me this way - they seem to believe that one either submits to them or tries to dominate them, no other option! (like, I don't give a damn about them...)


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Tawaki
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27 Jun 2019, 11:15 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are times when something might be correct "logically"----but is incorrect from a real-life, common-sense standpoint.


My husband gets burned on honesty and monologues.

He told his overweight coworker her wedding dress made her look fatter. It really enhanced her rolls. I damn near died when he told me this. His intention wasn't to hurt, only give honest feed back.

Truth: she packed 10 lbs of fun into a 5 lb bag. It wasn't a flattering dress AT ALL.
Common sense: You pick one aspect of the whole nightmare and say it was lovely. The lace embroidery was lovely on her dress. My husband does not understand why you would do this.

The whole above scenario came across as high handed and cruel.

My husband monologues BADLY. He has to vomit out ALL the information before another person can give feed back. This can mean he talks for 30 mins straight.

Monologues are because of anxiety and fear. If he doesn't give you ALL the information, the person may trip him up on a technicality he left out. He feels he has to dominate, and if you dominate you won't get attacked.

People view this as horrible arrogance. Who is my husband to talk on an subject for 40 minutes straight, which he has no degree in? My husband is scared s**tless, and hoping he doesn't sink.

I think "Aspie Arrogance" is more badly missed social cues than anything else. Carrying on a good conversation is almost an art form. It's all smudgey grays, and not absolute black and white, which is what my husband would prefer.



Wolfram87
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27 Jun 2019, 1:14 pm

I'm actually really, really humble, it's just being overshadowed by how amazing I am.


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naturalplastic
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27 Jun 2019, 1:19 pm



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27 Jun 2019, 4:44 pm

MrsPeel wrote:
I reckon the perceived arrogance just comes from a different conversational style.

Aspie style goes like this:
when someone gives an opinion, the response is to state our opinion and explain why we think it is more correct

Neurotypical style goes like this:
when someone gives an opinion, the response varies depending on their intentions:
- if their opinion is emotionally charged, the response is to express sympathy
- if their opinion is misguided but unimportant, the response is to divert them with gentle teasing or a joke
- if their opinion is wrong and important, the response is to acknowledge that their opinion is valid, and then to ask whether they've considered (insert reasons for own opinion)

So it's a combination of the OPs points 1 and 4, because we're bad at conversation and we're not showing understanding of emotional subtext.

^ I agree.

We often have a tendency to speak in absolutes as well. The way that translates in conversation very much gives the appearance of arrogance. Our thinking can also be rather rigid so that when we speak it also is in a very rigid manner that leaves little room for others to have, or give an opinion. I've seen more than a couple times a person who has a fact/truth be unwilling to even consider another view point. It alienates other people from speaking their own mind as closes the door to any possibility of learning to take place.

People will also apply their own truths to other people. We're individuals so what is true, or right for them isn't necessarily what is going to be for the next person. When a person drives home what their truth is as a fact or "the only way" it disregards the other person as an individual. The intention might be to help that person but without putting in the consideration for that person it comes across arrogant.

The truth is not always considerate, the truth is not always sympathetic, the truth is not always empathetic, the truth is not always respectful, and the truth is not always kind. Autism or not we are capable of these things (unless you're a narcissist or something)but when it comes to the 'truth' and what is 'correct' we can be very black and white where these other things can get forgotten. This can very easily cause offense, defensiveness, irritation/aggravation, pain etc. to others we are communicating with. So other people will think poorly on those that don't show any regard for these things.

My ex laid out a laundry list of 'truths' as he saw them, that basically conveyed how little I meant to him. Some was cruel, disrespectful, and very hurtful. The 'truth' and what is 'honest' is not always what is right and necessary. But he was "just being honest" so I had no right to be upset or disagree. <--this is nonsense of course but that was his reasoning

Certain people have 'trigger' topic's. So if they do not end up getting you to see their side or agree with them they will be kind of irritable and you of course are the one in the wrong to them. Typically it's seen that way too, because the person not 'adhering' is seen as stubborn, not listening etc. It doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense o_o In conversation the arrogant one is always going to be the other person, since we typically are unable to see our own arrogance in these kinds of situations.

A last thought; I suspect because those of us on the spectrum do tend to take some intense interests and have a pension for facts we end up feeling like we have a very good understanding of those things. In this we may have an underlying feeling that we just know those things better and another, particularity a NT who doesn't have the known 'intense focus' we can have. This could be arrogance but I think it could also be that because it's some we are comfortable in, the idea that someone may have a better sense of it makes it feel less safe and comfortable for us... and maybe a bit less special.


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27 Jun 2019, 4:59 pm

I don't necessarily correct people if they are wrong. These days I also want evidence that they may be teachable.



Glflegolas
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27 Jun 2019, 6:16 pm

Haven't read this myself, but a book that my sister recommended is "I'm Right and You're an Idiot" by James Hoggan.

From what I was told, facts DO NOT work if you're trying to change someone's opinion. Maybe that's why those with ASD can come across as arrogant sometimes, because they try to argue using facts.


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28 Jun 2019, 11:48 am

MrsPeel wrote:
you're all overthinking things.
I reckon the perceived arrogance just comes from a different conversational style.

Aspie style goes like this:
when someone gives an opinion, the response is to state our opinion and explain why we think it is more correct

Neurotypical style goes like this:
when someone gives an opinion, the response varies depending on their intentions:
- if their opinion is emotionally charged, the response is to express sympathy
- if their opinion is misguided but unimportant, the response is to divert them with gentle teasing or a joke
- if their opinion is wrong and important, the response is to acknowledge that their opinion is valid, and then to ask whether they've considered (insert reasons for own opinion)

So it's a combination of the OPs points 1 and 4, because we're bad at conversation and we're not showing understanding of emotional subtext.


This is an excellent observation.
Do you have read it somewhere or did somebody tell you or is this the result of your own observations?
I'm curious because I like to read about such topics as communication, the use of language, social interactions..etc.


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28 Jun 2019, 11:52 am

Because sometimes when it comes to certain topics I just am. I can't stand it when someone trying to educate other people gives false information.


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Wolfram87
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28 Jun 2019, 12:10 pm

Glflegolas wrote:
From what I was told, facts DO NOT work if you're trying to change someone's opinion. Maybe that's why those with ASD can come across as arrogant sometimes, because they try to argue using facts.


Then what am to use for arguing? Feelings? Opinions? "Your position is wrong because it's incongruent with my opinion. Change it!"


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Glflegolas
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28 Jun 2019, 5:56 pm

Feelings and fear can change people's opinion. For most people are afraid to change their opinion since most of their friends share their opinion, and if they change it, it's highly likely that their friends will no longer accept them.


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28 Jun 2019, 11:18 pm

In my case the cause was prosopagnosia - face-blindness. I cannot tell one human being from another. So I walk right by, without so much as a smile or nod, etc. Everybody looks like a total stranger to me. I can look for hints like bright red hair, or bright yellow boots, stuff like that. I do so very much wish I had known this before I turn 60yo. I could have explained it to co-workers, who I could hear saying, "Who does she think she is?"



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28 Jun 2019, 11:35 pm

Ok picture this, remember when people used the expression “village idiot” a lot? Now that expression has changed in the terms of “village smart @$$!” The reason for arrogance is that because back in the day SEVERAL people were wise to one village idiot, but now there are more village idiots these days and we ASDs seem arrogant because we point out the idiots of the village.