Should governments criminalise shaming of singles/virgins?

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Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 5:48 pm

I was born weird. My mother was born weird. Her father was born weird. I must have inherited some sort of gene that messed up socialising for me. I act weird because that is my natural instinct. The only way that I can not act weird is to be programmed like a robot. I cannot help if I am socially awkward.

And if this is the only problem, what explains those who are not awkward and get shamed for being virgins, like those two acquaintances of mine?



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27 Dec 2019, 5:49 pm

Luhluhluh wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Leon_Trotsky wrote:
... Women often discount them as undateable material when they find out about their virginity/singleness...
How do women find out?  Who tells them, and why?
Maybe it's not their virginity that makes them "undateable." Maybe it's something ELSE about them that has made women consider them "undateable" and consequently virgins.  General rule of thumb: If you act weird and are generally unfriendly, that's going to be a turn off.  And not just to women.  To everyone.
Those are my thoughts, too.  Why blame being unpopular on some unseen aspect like virginity when the real reason for lack of popularity is more likely having a visibly creepy, dull or weird personality?



kraftiekortie
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27 Dec 2019, 5:55 pm

I’m certainly weird.

I got rid of the creepy vibe when I expressed other interests besides “finding a girlfriend.”

Im a little laid back. Some girls like the quiet types.



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27 Dec 2019, 5:57 pm

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
... what explains those who are not awkward and get shamed for being virgins, like those two acquaintances of mine?
First, the only way that a woman is going to know that your friends are virgins is if someone tells them.

Second, we have only your word that (a) you have two friends, (b) those two friends are virgins, and (c) women somehow automatically know that your two friends are virgins.

Third, it is more likely that you cannot perceive the weird behavior of your two friends, while their weird behavior is blatantly obvious to the women they meet.

Fourth, those women who do perceive your two friends' weird behavior may simply be mean enough to reject them by falsely accuse them of being virgins.

Finally, the things that get men rejected more often than not are lack of looks, money, personality, and personal hygiene.

Now, do you want to change your story, or do we continue with questioning the validity of the story you've already given us?



Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 6:02 pm

Kind of strange to have everyone doubting me when these issues are the main reason why I joined this forum in the first place.

If I wanted to be berated for no reason, I would just attend a local meetup instead of posting here.



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27 Dec 2019, 6:11 pm

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
Kind of strange to have everyone doubting me when these issues are the main reason why I joined this forum in the first place.  If I wanted to be berated for no reason, I would just attend a local meetup instead of posting here.
I'll put it this way: most of us were virgins far longer than most people our age, and people told us point-blank that they would not date us because we were "boring", "creepy", or "weird".  Some people hinted that it might also be because we smelled bad, wore unfashionable clothes, or didn't have any disposable income.  No one ever turned us down for dates because we were virgins.  Our experiences included the knowlege that virgins were actually sought after for sex more often than more experienced types.  THAT is why we find it hard to believe your story.

And if the people at the local meetup treat you the same way we do, then maybe it is for similar reasons -- no one will know that you are a virgin anyway unless someone tells them.



Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 6:16 pm

This sounds a lot like, "I have never heard of this, nor has it happened to me--therefore, it does not exist." This is a fallacy.

I have not lived long-term (decades) in a place where people are NOT treated like sh*t for being virgins at older ages. Does that mean that places where people are less judgemental of adult virginity do not exist?

Whoever really thinks that I made everything up, and that I joined this forum because I somehow imagined all of this in my head like a schizophrenic, then why not just ignore my posts if they bother so much? If someone's thread is not pertinent to me, I just ignore it. Not sure what the point is of posting here how I am like this or that or that I am making things up.



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27 Dec 2019, 6:19 pm

You’re a virgin. Big s**t.

Now do something about it.

Prove those suckers wrong.



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27 Dec 2019, 6:21 pm

Leon_Trotsky wrote:
This sounds a lot like, "I have never heard of this, nor has it happened to me--therefore, it does not exist." This is a fallacy.

I have not lived long-term (decades) in a place where people are NOT treated like sh*t for being virgins at older ages. Does that mean that places where people are less judgemental of adult virginity do not exist?

Whoever really thinks that I made everything up, and that I joined this forum because I somehow imagined all of this in my head like a schizophrenic, then why not just ignore my posts if they bother so much? If someone's thread is not pertinent to me, I just ignore it. Not sure what the point is of posting here how I am like this or that or that I am making things up.


Why does everyone in your circle know you are a virgin?

This is not something that most people talk about at length.

I find it hard to believe that it’s the primary topic of conversation where you live.



Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 7:47 pm

It is not the primary conversation. It is just one of many topics, but one that causes a lot of judgement. In the past, when I was too naïve and gullible and answered honestly when asked during the course of a casual conversation, people, both male and female, would find out. Gossip spreads fast.

Right now and one of my changes for the new year is that I am starting anew and basically all social circles that I had insofar I will leave, i.e. not interact with anyone from the past again. Only will talk to new people at social gatherings. And will be much more vigilant about people asking me questions and selective in information that I give out.

So essentially, other than a very few trusted ones, I will have close to zero friends and acquaintances in person.



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27 Dec 2019, 8:03 pm

But who would want to gossip about a young man being a virgin? I know you say that wherever you're from has this absurd virgin-shaming culture, but that still sounds too far-fetched. I'm not saying you made this up, but I think you are overthinking this and it's becoming an obsession. When you meet new people and they ask you if you're a virgin (because apparently that's all everybody cares about in your area) just tell them you're not a virgin and be done with it.


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Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 8:13 pm

Gossip is gossip. I certainly do not understand it, because I myself do not do it. People gossip about all sorts of stuff. Like when someone breaks up with their partner, people gossip about it and laugh behind the person's back. Or if someone got a new job. Just whatever happens, people will gossip, spread it around their acquaintances and friends, make either positive or negative comments. Usually negative, though.

One of those acquaintances also had the same as I did, people gossiped within circles about his virginity. Not until I had already felt the negative consequences, such as beration or laughter or whatever, of revealing too much information, I told him, perhaps he should not tell, or at least not tell certain people since I noticed that they were serial gossipers.

It is like the topic of race, around 90%+ of people whom I meet ask me within the first few minutes of meeting me what my ethnic background is, racial breakdown of my parents and grandparents, and if I were really born here. People are obsessed with race, so they ask me this, especially because I am visibly mixed-race. Whatever I answer will end up as gossip.



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27 Dec 2019, 8:22 pm

What would they gossip about? That you're mixed-race? What do they say when they gossip?

How is being mixed-race going to affect your reputation? I bet there are other mixed-race people in your "circle of friends."

I'm sure, even if they're not mixed-race, that there's something "gossip-able" about them. Like maybe they have "skeletons in the closet" or something like that.

You hang out with some weird people......



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27 Dec 2019, 8:30 pm

Dude, I live in small-town South Carolina and nobody cares here if you're mixed-race.

People ask stuff to start conversations.

Anxious questioning and consultation of the electronic Oracle Stone isn't going to do you much good in real-life.


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27 Dec 2019, 8:41 pm

Borromeo wrote:
Dude, I live in small-town South Carolina and nobody cares here if you're mixed-race.

People ask stuff to start conversations.

Anxious questioning and consultation of the electronic Oracle Stone isn't going to do you much good in real-life.


Yeah, pretty much what I was going to say. If there's something about you that is obviously different, they will ask. If you're obviously mixed race, people will ask about it. There's nothing malicious about it. They're trying to get to know you.

Same with asking about your dating life. If you get defensive about it, people will talk about you. Not because you're single, but because you take it as an interrogation and get hostile when asked about it.

Maybe Meetup groups aren't your thing.


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Leon_Trotsky
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27 Dec 2019, 8:44 pm

I do not know why, but often I have been told that I do not "look like an American" and they often doubt that I am telling the truth that I really was born here. "People who look like you are not born here" and similar comments. Although, people who tell me this are usually people who moved here from somewhere else.

There was one acquaintance from Staten Island that I had. He was a tech worker and came to San Francisco for IT work. He was just two months older than I am (he was born in August 1989, myself in October 1989), so almost exactly my age. He asked me, every blasted time that we met each week at meetup, two questions: 1) about my relationship and sex life, and 2) about my racial background and my parents' and grandparents' ethnicities, nationalities, plus where they were born. Each time I used to change the subject, and we would talk about something else. This continuned for over a year. However, at one point he got annoyed and said that my dodging the questions makes him even more curious and insistent about knowing about those two areas of my personal life. I just said, I am not answering those questions. Some of my other acquaintances in this social circle apparently must have heard about this, since they made comments about how I refuse to answer questions.

I have since over a year ago stopped talking to him plus the others in that social circle.