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Mona Pereth
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20 Jan 2023, 12:13 pm

magz wrote:
I believe the sexist crap I encounter would count as "microagressions".
I prefer to call it "sexist crap".
"Microagression" might be a useful term to describe inter-group dynamics but in everyday life, I find it more confusing than useful.

It's confusing even to NTs, so autistic people really should not be expected to easily get it.

At this point the term "microaggression" is still somewhat confusing to anyone who has not been involved in at least some kind of activism for the rights of at least one marginalized minority. So I agree, other, more commonly-understood terms are better to use with most people.

The term "microaggression" can be a handy shorthand when talking to leftists, but not when talking to most other people.


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20 Jan 2023, 12:18 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.


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20 Jan 2023, 12:34 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.

I think that's common between close friends.
In high school, me and my best friend called each other "old witch". Now my daughter greets her BFF like "You're fat!" - "You're ugly!" - but if anyone else said it, it would have been extremely offensive, they admit it themselves.
There are terms reserved for closest friends and sometimes they are the ones offensive everywhere else.


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20 Jan 2023, 12:47 pm

KitLily wrote:
Yes. Apparently my face doesn't do the right thing and when I'm feeling neutral or thoughtful, I look angry or judgmental. When I'm feeling confused, I look like I want people to f**k off.

So I'm being microaggressive :roll:

No, that's not a "microaggression," at least not in the usual sense. See the following articles:

- What exactly is a microaggression? - Vox, 2015
- Microaggressions are a big deal: How to talk them out and when to walk away - NPR, 2020
- Microaggression - Wikipedia


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Dengashinobi
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20 Jan 2023, 12:54 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.


Yes understandably so since they are friends. It's a different context.

There was another instance that was also one of my very first introductions with the, at the time new, phenomenon of wokeness. I was talking to two girls whom I had met for few days but with whom I came close and we had this really good chemistry. While talking to them I mentioned the word "attention w**re" as I was describing somebody. They stoped laughing, became very serious and told me that, that was an unacceptable word. To be honest I found that vibe very strange. I felt like I was being patronized. Like I'm dumb and I need coaching. Was what I said a microaggression? Because I really didn't like that vibe. It left a negative impression on me. It didn't feel genuine at all.



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20 Jan 2023, 12:57 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.


Yes understandably so since they are friends. It's a different context.

There was another instance that was also one of my very first introductions with the, at the time new, phenomenon of wokeness. I was talking to two girls whom I had met for few days but with whom I came close and we had this really good chemistry. While talking to them I mentioned the word "attention w**re" as I was describing somebody. They stoped laughing, became very serious and told me that, that was an unacceptable word. To be honest I found that vibe very strange. I felt like I was being patronized. Like I'm dumb and I need coaching. Was what I said a microaggression? Because I really didn't like that vibe. It left a negative impression on me. It didn't feel genuine at all.


It's fair to understand that as an example of a microaggression. Some people find the word whore incredibly value loaded and they're not fond of coinings derived from the word either.


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20 Jan 2023, 1:00 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What has changed generally is that we have a bigger set of the population unwilling to overlook any slight rather then a “pick your battles” approach. What were seen as “trivial” slights are more often now seen as something that if not addressed right away will metastasize or makes you an enabler. It is that change that has allowed the concept of microaggressions to gain currency. In the context of microagressions failure to respond to them are seen as making one complicit in systematic racism.

Actually, according to Wikipedia at least, the term "microaggression" was coined back in 1970. What enabled it to "gain currency" was (1) the rise of the BLM movement (thanks to YouTube and other social media) and the resulting boost to other minority-rights groups as well, and (2) the rise of "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" consultants offering training to executives of major corporations.

Many microaggressions weren't formerly regarded as “trivial” by members of the affected marginalized minorities. Rather, they were things that the affected marginalized minorities grumbled about amongst themselves, and to anyone else who would listen, but it never reached the ears of the majority of culturally mainstream people, or the ears of the powers-that-be. What has changed, within the past decade, is that it has now become safer to complain about micro-aggressions to people other than (1) fellow members of one's marginalized minority group and (2) left-wing activists.

I do not believe you are fundamentally disagreeing with what I wrote. I did put trivial in quotes. When people were grumbling to themselves they were not calling people out.

I do agree social media has played a big role in the concept gaining currency. It makes it a lot easier to call people out. I do not see BLM as the prime driver there. Their main focus is the very non micro confrontations with police. It seemed to come out of the academic world. I think the biggest factor has been conservatives mocking the concept. Endless youtube videos showing usually a women or non binary looking white “SJW” with bright red hair screaming. But also columnists decrying fragile zoomers too easily triggered by microagressions because they grew up during the time “everybody got a participation trophy”.

As far as DEI I look at it more as an effect than a cause.


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20 Jan 2023, 1:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.


Yes understandably so since they are friends. It's a different context.

There was another instance that was also one of my very first introductions with the, at the time new, phenomenon of wokeness. I was talking to two girls whom I had met for few days but with whom I came close and we had this really good chemistry. While talking to them I mentioned the word "attention w**re" as I was describing somebody. They stoped laughing, became very serious and told me that, that was an unacceptable word. To be honest I found that vibe very strange. I felt like I was being patronized. Like I'm dumb and I need coaching. Was what I said a microaggression? Because I really didn't like that vibe. It left a negative impression on me. It didn't feel genuine at all.


It's fair to understand that as an example of a microaggression. Some people find the word whore incredibly value loaded and they're not fond of coinings derived from the word either.

I do not remember any time when “whore” was not considered an extremely negative value judgement. While “attention whore” is also a negative value judgement I have not detected any conflating of the two terms. A synonym to “attention seeker” not “whore”.


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20 Jan 2023, 1:58 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.


Yes understandably so since they are friends. It's a different context.

There was another instance that was also one of my very first introductions with the, at the time new, phenomenon of wokeness. I was talking to two girls whom I had met for few days but with whom I came close and we had this really good chemistry. While talking to them I mentioned the word "attention w**re" as I was describing somebody. They stoped laughing, became very serious and told me that, that was an unacceptable word. To be honest I found that vibe very strange. I felt like I was being patronized. Like I'm dumb and I need coaching. Was what I said a microaggression? Because I really didn't like that vibe. It left a negative impression on me. It didn't feel genuine at all.


It's fair to understand that as an example of a microaggression. Some people find the word whore incredibly value loaded and they're not fond of coinings derived from the word either.

I do not remember any time when “whore” was not considered an extremely negative value judgement. While “attention whore” is also a negative value judgement I have not detected any conflating of the two terms. A synonym to “attention seeker” not “whore”.


I have, I didn't invent it myself. We use it all the time with my friends (male, female, gay). "Attention seeker" sounds too formal, while "attention whore" sounds more playful.



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20 Jan 2023, 2:11 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I have a gay friend and a straight friend, both NT's. The straight friend calls the gay friend you f***ing f***ot and they laugh and hug and tease each other. It's their way of bonding I guess, teasing and crossing each other's boundaries. While I who has difficulty using such words I'm emotionally more distan to my gay friend than me straight NT friend is. What "microaggression" people make out of That?

If what you are describing is a genuine mutual understanding between close friends and they are both fine with it, then that's their business and no one else's.

But it doesn't mean anyone else should be crossing their boundaries in the same way.


Yes understandably so since they are friends. It's a different context.

There was another instance that was also one of my very first introductions with the, at the time new, phenomenon of wokeness. I was talking to two girls whom I had met for few days but with whom I came close and we had this really good chemistry. While talking to them I mentioned the word "attention w**re" as I was describing somebody. They stoped laughing, became very serious and told me that, that was an unacceptable word. To be honest I found that vibe very strange. I felt like I was being patronized. Like I'm dumb and I need coaching. Was what I said a microaggression? Because I really didn't like that vibe. It left a negative impression on me. It didn't feel genuine at all.


It's fair to understand that as an example of a microaggression. Some people find the word whore incredibly value loaded and they're not fond of coinings derived from the word either.

I do not remember any time when “whore” was not considered an extremely negative value judgement. While “attention whore” is also a negative value judgement I have not detected any conflating of the two terms. A synonym to “attention seeker” not “whore”.


It still contains the root though and your argument kinda entirely misses that point.

If someone finds the word whore offensive, they're likely to find coinings based on the word whore offensive as well.


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20 Jan 2023, 2:18 pm

I mean, how is it possible that my female friends not only don't mind, but they also use the term "whore" a lot, while this two girls find it offensive. They are all women, but they have different attitudes towards the word. Doesn't sound like a universal offence towards that group (women). If not all women are offended, is it still a microaggression?



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20 Jan 2023, 2:31 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
I mean, how is it possible that my female friends not only don't mind, but they also use the term "whore" a lot, while this two girls find it offensive. They are all women, but they have different attitudes towards the word. Doesn't sound like a universal offence towards that group (women). If not all women are offended, is it still a microaggression?


Isn't that normal though? You'll encounter people within marginalized groups who aren't bothered by slurs, but you'll encounter others who are.

I'd say if the act itself isn't, the assumption that it will be acceptable certainly is. It's easier to step on toes if you don't know the person, so it's wise to be careful until you've developed rapport.


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20 Jan 2023, 3:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I mean, how is it possible that my female friends not only don't mind, but they also use the term "whore" a lot, while this two girls find it offensive. They are all women, but they have different attitudes towards the word. Doesn't sound like a universal offence towards that group (women). If not all women are offended, is it still a microaggression?


Isn't that normal though? You'll encounter people within marginalized groups who aren't bothered by slurs, but you'll encounter others who are.

I'd say if the act itself isn't, the assumption that it will be acceptable certainly is. It's easier to step on toes if you don't know the person, so it's wise to be careful until you've developed rapport.


Didn't people do that since always though? Do we really need the term "microagression" at all?



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20 Jan 2023, 3:17 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I mean, how is it possible that my female friends not only don't mind, but they also use the term "whore" a lot, while this two girls find it offensive. They are all women, but they have different attitudes towards the word. Doesn't sound like a universal offence towards that group (women). If not all women are offended, is it still a microaggression?


Isn't that normal though? You'll encounter people within marginalized groups who aren't bothered by slurs, but you'll encounter others who are.

I'd say if the act itself isn't, the assumption that it will be acceptable certainly is. It's easier to step on toes if you don't know the person, so it's wise to be careful until you've developed rapport.


Didn't people do that since always though? Do we really need the term "microagression" at all?


Yes, people have always done that. Should we not have a word to describe such a thing? Did we have a previous word that microaggression replaced?

I don't see why the term microaggression shouldn't exist, if it describes something we can agree has existed for a long time. How else would we refer to the concept?


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20 Jan 2023, 6:26 pm

Dear_one wrote:
A friend of mine was taking a brand-new girlfriend out on his sailboat. As they got under weigh, as Captain, he told her it was time to do something on the foredeck. She got upset that he had not said "please" and after that, the voyage was pointless.

Did he tell her, beforehand, that she was going to be expected to act as a crew member, and that he needed her to promptly obey any orders he might give as captain?

Had she not been told this, she probably assumed that being taken for a ride on someone's sailboat was similar to being taken for a ride in someone's car.

People tend to make assumptions based on their past experience, unless they are specifically told to expect something different.


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20 Jan 2023, 6:30 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
I mean, how is it possible that my female friends not only don't mind, but they also use the term "whore" a lot, while this two girls find it offensive. They are all women, but they have different attitudes towards the word. Doesn't sound like a universal offence towards that group (women). If not all women are offended, is it still a microaggression?


Isn't that normal though? You'll encounter people within marginalized groups who aren't bothered by slurs, but you'll encounter others who are.

I'd say if the act itself isn't, the assumption that it will be acceptable certainly is. It's easier to step on toes if you don't know the person, so it's wise to be careful until you've developed rapport.


Didn't people do that since always though? Do we really need the term "microagression" at all?


Yes, people have always done that. Should we not have a word to describe such a thing? Did we have a previous word that microaggression replaced?

I don't see why the term microaggression shouldn't exist, if it describes something we can agree has existed for a long time. How else would we refer to the concept?


Presumably, the term "Microaggression" came from ppl embracing the left side of politics.
Just saying. 8)