If There Was a War Between NTs & Autistics.......

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Geez, then why not consider gender a race? That's genetically determined too!

I've seen enough extreme viewpoints on both sides. I've had enough of the "I'm better than you" mentality on both sides.

Well, first of all, ritalin is very help if applied properly. The issue with ritalin revolves mostly around the ADD/ADHD controversies (in that they are using an arbitrary definition of such in order to be able to boost sales). So the issue here is not quite the same. And yes, there are people who do overuse drugs, but that is a different matter.

And there is no cure for autism, just treatments of various sorts, ranging from Applied Behavior Analysis to drugs. They are not intended as a cure as far as I'm know...

We are debating whether or not autism should be considered a race, and the answer to that question is obvious to most.

What do you mean by applied properly? Ritalin is something you swallow not a lotion. I'm basing this information on a few people who had taken ritalin for a long time and ended up having other psychological issues and social difficulties which one very bright person claimed it was the ritalin he had taken for so long and I'm inclined to believe him. I've tried it a few times and I can see how it can be dangerous.

Flat earth argument.

Has he been overdosing, or not taking the doses as prescribed by his doctor? It would be better to rule out all other possibilities before you make such a conclusion like that first. And of course understand what exactly he has, it may be possible that he's taking the wrong medication....

Nope, I'm not even going to let you have that one. It is not a flat Earth argument, I have clearly provided sources and supported my position.

Do you, Fraya, have anything other than anecedotes, misconceptions/misunderstandings, or emotional biases to support yours?

This is based on a few misconceptions:

First, Freud's theories is not accepted by any psychiatric or psychological practice.

Second, Tony Attwood does not support your position at all. Just read his books more carefully, since they are about how to deal and allieviate some of the symptoms.

Third, Simon-Baron Cohen proposes that Aspergers Syndrome, not the necessarily the whole ASD spectrum, is an extreme of the male brain. But this does not mean that it is necessarily a good thing, or a normal thing.

From my clinical experience I consider that children and adults with Aspergers Syndrome have a different, not defective, way of thinking.

The person usually has a strong desire to seek knowledge, truth and perfection with a different set of priorities than would be expected with other people. There is also a different perception of situations and sensory experiences. The overriding priority may be to solve a problem rather than satisfy the social or emotional needs of others.

The person values being creative rather than co-operative.

The person with Aspergers syndrome may perceive errors that are not apparent to others, giving considerable attention to detail, rather than noticing the “big picture”.

The person is usually renowned for being direct, speaking their mind and being honest and determined and having a strong sense of social justice.

The person may actively seek and enjoy solitude, be a loyal friend and have a distinct sense of humour.

However, the person with Aspergers Syndrome can have difficulty with the management and expression of emotions.

Children and adults with Aspergers syndrome may have levels of anxiety, sadness or anger that indicate a secondary mood disorder. There may also be problems expressing the degree of love and affection expected by others. Fortunately, we now have successful psychological treatment programs to help manage and express emotions.
Tony Attwood

Are AS (Asperger Syndrome) or HFA (High Functioning Autism) disabilities?
Both can be thought of as a personality style in which the individual does not ‘tune in’ naturally to people and is more attracted by objects, systems, and how things work
Both involve strengths in attention to detail, and can be associated with talent in areas such as mathematics, science, fact-collecting or rule-based subjects
Both are disabilities only in environments where the individual is expected to be both sociable and a good communicator

The point is, if you aren't harming other people, why should they harm you?

Of course the main problem is that the doctor doesn't know for certain what to give or what dosage to use either.

Its a guessing game for them.. trial and error with the errors usually causing more trouble and risk.

I think the point here is that the doctors are prescribing drugs to children to make the children lower maintenance for the parents benefit rather than the child's at the cost of the child's development and/or health.

Because that particular difference in genetics is already defined as "gender" of course.

People with Downs Syndrome are not considered to belong to their own race. Why is autism special?

Autism is currently defined as a disorder.

You are wrong.


Looks like Attwood does support my position. We have our own special strengths, we are not defective, but we may have some difficulty in social interaction.

Baron-Cohen also seems to support my position. Asperger's/Autism are only disadvantages in certain specific contexts, but as NTs dominate the world through sheer force of numbers, they can ensure that they are always (or almost always) in the types of situations which they prefer (emphasis on social skills, less need for attention to detail etc). Us Aspies do not have the same luxury.

Because Downs Syndrome and genetic deafness doesn't have as many benefits as penalties. Autism (particularly high functioning) could be considered a neutral trait as much a disease as skin color.

With proper treatment, the bad symptoms go away or are alleviated, and they can go off to live a good life like any other normal person.

The problem with this is that you are cherry picking quotes. Their personality is obviously going to be determined by their physical brain structure. Second, this also holds true for many other people not on the ASD. And third, name an environment or situation that doesn't involve use of social skills. You will see that there are significant problems. To make it, you have to be able to socialize. It does not support your position either.

I guess that you aren't aware that most who haven't undergone any treatment did not make it in life and have high rates of suicide and depression.