AS as Form of Narcissism

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It's a hard one to call, because I like the world I live in to revolve around my ideals, and often get the "them not me" thought about things, but mainly because I get annoyed if someone doesn't think the same way I do about something. On the other hand I get considered quite distant by people, due to the way I react to a statement or action. My internal reaction varies between not caring at all or not interested, to caring alot but unable to show it. I would like to say thank you to people and mean it. The tendacies are in there, but it's ahrd to say who's running the show; the aspie or the narc.

As the American Psychiatric Association defines narcissistic personality disorder in the DSM-IV-TR, narcissists present as arrogant and haughty, with an apparent high sense of self-worth. However, many psychologists theorize that this grandiosity (a defining aspect of pathological narcissism) is a defense mechanism to ward off suppressed feelings of inferiority. Narcissistic personality traits are encouraged/exacerbated in social milieux that encourage an unrealistically spotless image, a high level of competitiveness, and little emotional intimacy. In such environments, people learn to hide their self-doubts and mental anguish while presenting themselves as self-confident, capable, and able to outdo the competition. In time, their emotional anguish becomes subconscious, and they learn to practically worship the façade they present to the world and hold those who do not live up to their ideas of perfection in contempt, and they then use this contempt to rationalize careless and cruel behavior. They are also very sensitive to challenges to their status.

A so-called hypersensitive narcissist has also been theorized. They present as shy, self-deprecating, and modest; but they are thought to have highly narcissistic fantasies that they fear to live out. They remain sensitive to narcissistic injury but use a façade of humility to compensate rather than one of self-confidence.

I had Narcissistic Personality Disorder for many years.
While I "had" it I was often contemptuous , dismissive, haughty , unfeeling, uncaring about those who I thought pathetic, slow, embarrassing, badly dressed, "boring" , conventional, sheeplike, etc; in other words both standard "Neurotypicals" AND people on the Autistic Spectrum who hadn't got their act together, (with an NPD for instance, because it is so "enabling" ; it takes huge load off data processing, to treat people like facades only)! ! If someone was brilliant/funny/intelligent enough I, and my favourite people, would overlook poor fashion sense and embarrassing naivety etc. If people were beautiful enough, we would overlook a certain level of stupidity! I'm talking about a period when I was in the alcohol and dope encouraged swim of NPDness, taking over parties, gleefully/gloatingly mocking, "feeling" superior to almost everyone!.
But this started to topple, following fresh data; Andrea Dworkins book "Intercourse" (first blow to the wall, enabling me to feel anger , and for first time "oppression"! It provoked a period of fascist style radical feminism on my part; every self respecting woman had to become a lesbian if she didn't want to participate in her own oppression by the enemy!) and my first truly intimate adult relationship,( with a woman rather than a man), aswell as Alice Millers book " The Drama of the Gifted Child", (featuring analysis of NPD & manic-depression, and which made me cry).
I experienced 3 years of mood-disorder, manic-depression, as the wall crumbled , and then it all came crashing down. The turning point , when I shed my NPD forever ( although certain social skills I used back then still sweep me up sometimes, especially if drink alcohol, and I rediscover the power of the right look, and the right smile etc, but I no longer like the feeling,) came at age 29 in an out of body moment in which I wept for myself, and experienced my body as loving me as my hands wiped away my tears , so that I kissed them. I learned compassion, and the first person I had needed to feel it for was ME.
In the 15 years since then I have been anxious and depressed , and tentatively happy , ... and,.. something it took me until this year to understand,.... AUTISTIC (HFAS, Aspergers , not sure).
The NPD was my survival structure. I'm not sure when I built it, but it made me numb. I was able to function smoothly because there really didn't seem to be anybody out there. And I, myself, was almost nothing but one mass of creep-behaviours, pleasing.
While I was NPD I would NEVER have been prepared to think that I might be in any way "disabled", and the disabled and the weak and the dull and the mumbling and the badly dressed were almost invisible to me. Only the elite were good enough for me. Everybody else could go to the wall.
Since it collapsed, since I learned compassion, all in one gulp, I have found life so much more complicated; I am now aware of being AS, and having problems with the "simplest" things, difficulties which I would have had absolutely no sympathy for when I had NPD.! !

How common do you think situations like this are?

This sounds a lot like me, and contains traits I wish to change. Not just for my own sake, but for that of others. I also was abused as a child(emotionally and psychologically by adults, AND also emotionally, psychologically, and physically by siblings).



Do you happen to have any evidence of this? I'd like to read all I can.

Where on the autism spectrum do NPD types usually rest?

How well developed are the social skills of NPD types? How about cerebral narcissists?

How often do NPD types have obsessive interests or hobbies that they can't stop thinking about, even to the exclusion of following through on important life decisions?

Where do NPD types and AS/HFA types differ with regard to empathy?

Does reactive attachment disorder have any relationship to AS/HFA and can the two possibly accompany one another?

Do NPD types sometimes display splintered intellectual abilities(eg. greater than 15 points differerance between VIQ and PIQ)?

How does emotional intelligence of AS/HFA compare to NPD?



According to Temple Grandin, HFA/AS types can also be manipulative and deceitful. In an interview she described an event in her childhood in which she was able to get some students in trouble for an act she committed, and described precisely how she engineered the situation.

Narcissism is often misunderstood as thinking someone is stuckup or whatever... I don't think that Narcissism is necessarilly a bad thing. It just means you love yourself right? I think... being self obsessed doesn't necessarilly mean you're a bad person. Yes I think I'm narcissistic.

I tend to think of a Narcissist who takes from the world around them. That's a tricky one, too, though. I have been blessed/cursed with a few extreme talents that have caused people to express how my enthusiasm hurts them and that they feel threatened. When a person puts their heart and soul into working hard and doing things, is that taking from the world? Or, is the world taking from THEM by asking them to do otherwise?

There was an interesting book, The Culture of Narcissism, by (the late) Christopher Lasch. He basically applied a Freudian analysis to American culture. I read it when it first came out in the 1970s. (Darn, I'm getting old.)

ouinon - Your above post was very moving and enlightening. It's always wonderful to read such an honest account of personal experience. I understand completely how having compassion for one's self would be the first step in healing, and the way you described your "self revelation" is one of the best posts I've ever read on WP. Thank you.

I'll definitely check that out! I'm an American and I see why someone would write a book like that. The thing about America is that it is really just a little kid that has self-esteem problems (remember, we're still only little over 200 years old -- we're like toddlers yet). Ever since the Revolutionary War, Americans have always felt compelled to prove to the world that they aren't just this little collection of colonies. That attitude still prevails today, but I don't think most Americans think about it. For example, Americans will often talk about things they don't understand when put on the spot. Some countries even put together entire television programs to make fun of us.

For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLXRVvA6T9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFqzBiLBwM8

Putting aside the fact that, no matter what country you come from, if you take a sampling of hundreds of people, you're going to find some stupid people, think about the fact that another country actually had the gumption to do something like that. If Americans were to create a program called "Talking To Canadians" made with select clips of people who have been put on the spot and answer foolishly because they don't want to look stupid, they're would be an outcry -- and it would be mostly from American citizens themselves! Also, note that many of the questions made to make us look stupid have to do with knowing Canadian popular culture and ways of pronouncing words in French. That's not fair.

In my opinion, other countries think that we are Narcissist and isolationist because we do not RESPOND to them. They're sending these shots at us and we're just ignoring them. However, we do hear it. We know about it and it hurts us, particularly when we try so hard to prove ourselves and be good people to the rest of the world.

Don't think I am, because I'd have to love myself first, and sometimes I can't stand me...
Or maybe it's the think where you're in a pool of water up to your neck, but can't have any because of some vindictive gods...or whatever it was...

It's amazing how many days I think these same thoughts. I used to love myself -- and people thought I was Narcissistic. For years, I then learned to hate myself -- and people thought I was Narcissistic. Now, I'm trying to love myself again because I've become a loser by trying to make people happy (I think that is their GOAL actually -- no competition that way). No matter what I do, they think I'm Narcissistic, but I learned why (besides the obvious thing I just did with this post by making it all about ME )...

The world is full of music I can't hear that almost everyone dances to every day. I know the music is there, but I can't hear it, so I have to try and figure out the beat. The beat is so complex, however, that I can't think of anything else at the same time. When I don't try to dance, I am being selfish and telling those around me, "You're not worth dancing with." They think I'm all about myself and a Narcissist when I don't dance with them because, the truth is, THEY are all about themselves -- it's human nature. However, I'd love to dance -- I just can't hear the music! Not dancing means I lose all opportunities to self-actualize that require another person, and like all humans, that matters to me -- a lot. When I try to dance without hearing the music, I dance off-beat and they lose all respect for me, which hurts me more than dancing. It's a lose-lose situation. As I've crossed the mid-life age boundary, I've learned not to care because, no matter what I do, people aren't going to like me. I'm never going to figure out the beat because it is too complex and changes too often to keep up with. So, now, I am trying to dance to the music I create and if they don't like it, well, c'est la vie!

I bet you can relate.

The U.S. is actually about middle-aged as far as nations go.

Ah, yes -- nations like Israel, for example. In comparison to China's 5,000 or so years, however, we're still just kids.

Off topic, but my nerd-nature compels me to respond:


The list of countries and their dates of independence can be found here: http://geography.about.com/od/lists/a/i ... nceday.htm

The U.S. is also elderly as a nation-state. It was one of the first.

Something tells me this is one of those times when I should have said, "In my opinion..."